A side plot to consider w/ the 2010 uncapped season...

[BradyManny]

Re: A side plot to consider w the 2010 uncapped season...

We might consider negotiating one year extensions with some of our folks now.

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS
Heath Evans, FB
Jabar Gaffney, WR
Chris Hanson, P
Rodney Harrison, SS
Russ Hochstein, G
Larry Izzo, LB
Lamont Jordan, RB
Deltha O'Neal, CB
Lonie Paxton, LS
James Sanders, S
Lewis Sanders, CB
Mike Wright, DT

RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS
Eric Alexander, LB
Wesley Britt, T
Pierre Woods, LB

I bolded what I personally think are the priorities...A few of those guys would probably be wise to see what they can get on the market (Sanders, Wright, Gaffney). Rodney will be back if he wants to come back and probably ditto for Heath.

 

[mgteich]

Re: A side plot to consider w the 2010 uncapped season...

I would extend any of theose players for one year if they are willing. Some, I would extend some for more. I expect Sanders and Gaffney to be free agents.

My focus would be on the defesive backfield. I would like us to lock up O'Neal and Lewis Sanders for another year. Harrison would be good also. This would allow us to go forward with a solid team already under contract. Finally, I would extend Jordan for as along as he is willing.

I bolded what I personally think are the priorities...A few of those guys would probably be wise to see what they can get on the market (Sanders, Wright, Gaffney). Rodney will be back if he wants to come back and probably ditto for Heath.

 

[patsfanindoltsland]

Re: A side plot to consider w the 2010 uncapped season...

it's an interesting point. hopefully they see the pats as still contenders instead of going downhill.

as far as the impressive class of 2009 free agents...that list will get very, very small as the year goes on. I'm sure some of those will be signed to extensions, and a lot will be franchised. that's what happened this past offseason.

 

[Miguel]

Re: A side plot to consider w the 2010 uncapped season...

No, the top echelon will obvioulsy still write their own tickets. It will be the players who showed potential but didn't quite flash, the guys who have talent but not buzz, the good ones who cannot get the mega contract now but see a chance for big money (or at least bigger money) in an uncapped year.

Names, please.

 

[Miguel]

Re: A side plot to consider w the 2010 uncapped season...

We're only more likely to see this kind of thing going into 09 - and with more teams than just the Pats. They'll be more Donte Stallworths in the 09 offseason.

Names, please.

History says otherwise. Look at what happened in 2005/2006 before the CBA was extended.

Look at the list of the players who become UFAs. Each year we hear that the quality goes down.

In 2009 all 32 teams can compete for a free agent. If 2010 is uncapped, there will be limitations on the teams that played in the 2009 conference semifinals. If you were a player, would you rather have 32 possible suitors or 24 suitors?? I much rather have 32.

Under your scenario, a player who could get a big payday in 2009 is not only risking not getting injured in 2009 he is also risking that the CBA will not be extended.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: A side plot to consider w the 2010 uncapped season...

Names, please.

History says otherwise. Look at what happened in 2005/2006 before the CBA was extended.

Look at the list of the players who become UFAs. Each year we hear that the quality goes down.

In 2009 all 32 teams can compete for a free agent. If 2010 is uncapped, there will be limitations on the teams that played in the 2009 conference semifinals. If you were a player, would you rather have 32 possible suitors or 24 suitors?? I much rather have 32.

Under your scenario, a player who could get a big payday in 2009 is not only risking not getting injured in 2009 he is also risking that the CBA will not be extended.

Fine, maybe I'm wrong. Time will tell. I don't pretend to be an expert, but was merely throwing it out there for discussion. I don't have any names b/c it's too early to tell who the names would be. Nobody would've thought Stallworth couldn't find a home in the offseason, but he carried some baggage, and so that's exactly what happened.

As for 24 vs. 32 - no player every truly commands 32 teams. In nearly every scenario, it comes down to a handful of teams bidding for a player. This time around, they'll be more money to toss around, and like in the uncapped MLB , one stupid contract can have a ripple effect and lead to other guys getting overpaid.

As for injury risk - these guys have their bodies insured, it'd be a calculated risk, but a risk some might take if they don't see themselves commanding market value. So I'm not talking about a marquee player turning down money to wait for 2010, I'm talking about a guy like Stallworth, who could've had X amount of money, but saw that with one season with the Patriots (or any quality team), he'd get a lot more than X.

As I said, right now, we don't know what kind of players will fit that scenario. Maybe Houshmandzadeh gets in some kind of trouble (he is a Bengal after all) or gets a season ending injury. In that scenario, I think he'd def be more likely to take a 1 year deal in 09 and grab a payday in 2010.

 

[Miguel]

Re: A side plot to consider w the 2010 uncapped season...

Fine, maybe I'm wrong. Time will tell. I don't pretend to be an expert, but was merely throwing it out there for discussion. I don't have any names b/c it's too early to tell who the names would be.

There are lists of possible 2009 free agents.
KFFL - 2009 NFL Free Agents
2009 NFL Free Agents

 

[Miguel]

Re: A side plot to consider w the 2010 uncapped season...

So I'm not talking about a marquee player turning down money to wait for 2010, I'm talking about a guy like Stallworth, who could've had X amount of money, but saw that with one season with the Patriots (or any quality team), he'd get a lot more than X.

As I said, right now, we don't know what kind of players will fit that scenario. Maybe Houshmandzadeh gets in some kind of trouble (he is a Bengal after all) or gets a season ending injury. In that scenario, I think he'd def be more likely to take a 1 year deal in 09 and grab a payday in 2010.

But those situations have nothing to do with 2010 being uncapped. If Houshmandzadeh gets in some kind of trouble or suffers a season-ending injury, he would indeed be more likely to take an one-year deal in 2009 even if the CBA was extended tomorrow.

 

[slash83]

Nnamdi Asomugha is good ill take him plz.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: A side plot to consider w the 2010 uncapped season...

But those situations have nothing to do with 2010 being uncapped. If Houshmandzadeh gets in some kind of trouble or suffers a season-ending injury, he would indeed be more likely to take an one-year deal in 2009 even if the CBA was extended tomorrow.

So if an uncapped year will have no effect on the contracts of elite players, and no effect on the contract on non-elite players, you are saying that nothing will change on the contract front the year before a year where there is no cap?

I find that hard to swallow.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: A side plot to consider w the 2010 uncapped season...

Names, please.

History says otherwise. Look at what happened in 2005/2006 before the CBA was extended.

Look at the list of the players who become UFAs. Each year we hear that the quality goes down.

In 2009 all 32 teams can compete for a free agent. If 2010 is uncapped, there will be limitations on the teams that played in the 2009 conference semifinals. If you were a player, would you rather have 32 possible suitors or 24 suitors?? I much rather have 32.

Names please (names of FAs who had 32 teams all trying to sign them).

I still find it hard to believe that FAs will make more in a capped year than in an uncapped year.

Or that agents will work to make sure they players are not FAs in an uncapped year.

You could be right. I just don't see it.

 

[Miguel]

Re: A side plot to consider w the 2010 uncapped season...

you are saying that nothing will change on the contract front the year before a year where there is no cap?

I find that hard to swallow.

I did not say what you contend that I said. I am saying that I seriously doubt that 2010 being uncapped would cause "lots" (I am quoting the OP) - "thinking that 2009 will be an interesting offseason in which a lot of players might take 1 year "prove it" deals to delay their big payday to 2010"]of players to take one-year deals more so than if 2010 was capped.

My reasons are
1.) History - Look at what happened in 2005 and in 2006 before the CBA extended.
2.) Time value of money - A dollar received in 2009 is worth more than a dollar received in 2010.
3.) Even more history - the quality (depth and breath) of the free agent class has gone each and every year
4.) Extensions - more and more teams are signing players to extensions. Look at the Giants' OL.
5.) CBA - Some of the projected 2009 UFAs would be RFAs in 2010. I doubt that a potential UFA would agree to a deal that may make him a RFA/
6.) Cap Space - ProFootballTalk.com - SALARY CAP NUMBERS AS OF AUGUST 25

Teams are either going to use their cap space to extend players (decreasing the number of UFAs in 2009) or use the LTBE move to move the cap space in 2009. That extra cap space can then be used to sign more players to long-term deals.

 

[Miguel]

Re: A side plot to consider w the 2010 uncapped season...

I still find it hard to believe that FAs will make more in a capped year than in an uncapped year.

I am not arguing that

Or that agents will work to make sure they players are not FAs in an uncapped year.

Or that.

 

[patchick]

On the flipside, if teams believe the uncapped year is really going to happen, I can see many of them being unusually aggressive in opening up their wallets for FAs and contract extensions this offseason. (Particularly the upper tier of teams that would be most likely to end up in the restricted group for 2010.) That climate could make 2009 an unusually attractive year to negotiate a long-term deal, from the player's perspective.

 

[Urgent]

So if 2010 is potentially un-capped, are play-off caliber teams likely to strike deals in 2009 with large roster bonuses due in the 2010 season?

 

[Miguel]

So if 2010 is potentially un-capped, are play-off caliber teams likely to strike deals in 2009 with large roster bonuses due in the 2010 season?

From the CBA:
(iv) Amounts Treated as Signing Bonuses. For purposes of determining Team Salary under the
foregoing, the term “signing bonus” shall include:......(12) In a Player Contract, or any renegotiation or extension of a Player Contract, that is executed in the
Final Capped Year, each of the following, if it is to be earned or paid to the player in the Final League Year
(which is an Uncapped Year): (a) any Salary advance which the player is not and cannot be obligated to repay;
(b) any off-season workout bonus that is contingent upon the player’s participation in less than 32 days of the
Club’s off-season workout program; (c) any off-season roster bonus; and (d) any off-season reporting bonus;"

Based on my understanding of the above, I would say no.

 

[patchick]

I've been trying to get a handle on the byzantine provisions of the uncapped year...for others equally baffled, here's one useful article:

2010: An uncapped year odyssey

The upshot is that far fewer players will be free agents in 2010 than in preceding years. Anybody drafted in 2005 or 2006 whose contract runs through 2009 (E.g. Mankins & Hobbs) is far worse off than in a normal year, and it's reasonably likely that Wilfork & Seymour would both be franchised.

In short, it would be a mess for both sides.

 

[spacecrime]

I've been trying to get a handle on the byzantine provisions of the uncapped year...for others equally baffled, here's one useful article:

2010: An uncapped year odyssey

The upshot is that far fewer players will be free agents in 2010 than in preceding years. Anybody drafted in 2005 or 2006 whose contract runs through 2009 (E.g. Mankins & Hobbs) is far worse off than in a normal year, and it's reasonably likely that Wilfork & Seymour would both be franchised.

In short, it would be a mess for both sides.

Decent article.

For me, I agree with the players union when they said if we once get an uncapped year, the cap will never return. Salaries will balloon and no one will want to go back to a spending limit.

 

[spacecrime]

So if 2010 is potentially un-capped, are play-off caliber teams likely to strike deals in 2009 with large roster bonuses due in the 2010 season?

I look for a change in the way top players make top dollar.

For years, op players made more in FA than resigning with the same team. This is partially because once teams became successful, their players were more desirable, and teams couldn't afford to pay all of them what they could demand in free agency and still remain under the cap.

Withouth a cap, teams will not only be able to pay these players what they could make in free agency, the top ten teams have an incentive to pay MORE in order to keep their top players.

The top 8 teams will face restrictions in signing FAs. Therefore, in order to stay cometitive, they will have to keep their own top players.

Time will tell, of course, but I look for top players of top teams to make more money by not leaving for free agency.

 

[patchick]

For me, I agree with the players union when they said if we once get an uncapped year, the cap will never return. Salaries will balloon and no one will want to go back to a spending limit.

This is the big risk -- a total disintegration of the cap system. The current system has made the NFL a financial powerhouse with a compelling on-field product. I'd hate to see a baseball/hockey-style mess.