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a poster wanted motives for Bush's Niger lies... ok

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PressCoverage, Jan 26, 2007.

  1. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    this exchange in another thread, i feel, is important enough for seperate discussion, if anyone cares to dispute, or agree... said poster insists Bush had no reason to lie to the world in his 2003 State of the Union Speech, and countless times soon after.... I disagreed, providing several motives...

    you can't fathom motive? ok, clearly you're either in complete denial, or the very last to know...

    so, you're seriously asking that? i am eternally grateful to you for serving up such a slowpitch softball in a fast pitch league... i'll now knock it out of the park for the walkoff win....

    Here we go:

    - because of the need to thwart the efforts of Congress and the UN to delay the start of the war
    - because he was in a race to blow the doors down before the ongoing inspections concluded nothing about WMDs there...
    - because of the PNAC; with Paul Wolfowicz whispering his ideology in his and Cheney's ear...
    - because of this pathetic quote: "afterall, this is a man who tried to kill my daddy" (another baseless claim)
    - because, within hours of hijacked jets careening into the World Trade Centre and Pentagon, Donald Rumsfeld was ordering his staff to find something that could be used to pin the blame on Iraq.
    - because no one was buying Atta in Prague, nor the alluminum tubes
    - because the mobile bioweapons lab claims went swirling down the toilet, after David Kay confirmed they had no drains ...
    - because he knew his loyal Justice Dept. wouldn't squawk, nor the State Deparment
    - because at the last second, he switched and pinned it on British Intelligence reports; which were also in the process of being debunked
    - because, according to an NSC staff member, removing the claim would leave the British "flapping in the wind."

    and my two favorites:

    - because billions of dollars appropriated for Afghanistan were quite secretly diverted to prep for Iraq already, including air fields in Qatar
    - because he had an election to win a year later, and painting Iraq as an "imminent threat" would cement the public in fear...


    would you like me to continue for all the many reasons he had to lie? or shall we continue on to the next lie he was warned about before his speech, and before Powell's UN speech?
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2007
  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    yeah, but i think, after a lot of schooling, they know not to come with that weak sh!t anymore... :rocker:
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Iraqi did TRY to obtain yellowcake, they were rebuffed by the gov of Niger. If you want documentation do a search on this board the issue was discusssed before you showed up.
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    O see that we are still into personal attacks rather than discussing the facts. Oh well some things never change.
  5. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    that's just plain false... and you're perpetuating a lie.. any time you'd like to discus it further, let's do battle...

    and, please don't refer to some past THREAD here as "documentation"...lol
  6. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    no no.... i love people like this, actually... i'm actually quite interested in hearing what his source is on the matter.... i'm rather amazed that there is still someone left who's clinging to the fable...

    i've done a lot of reading on alledged Niger-Iraq "relationship"... and everything i've read comes to the same conclusion: a few envoys from Iraq may have visited Niger a time or three the past 20 years.... but nothing that suggests, much less confirms, there was any deal to buy uranium, ... that is, besides fraudulent papers forged by a rogue italian agent who made a lot of money on the scam (it was widely known by the world's intel agencies that the U.S. was desperately seeking evidence of ANYTHING they could pin on Iraq, and would pay for the intel) ...

    please show us all your source, and please offer it from something a bit more reputable than jebadiahloveswar.org's blog space... i'm willing to capitulate if you have something good on your claim... do you?
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2007
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Liberal Democrat Equal Opportunity Job Fair:

    AIRLINE PILOTS WANTED
    NO EXPERIANCE NECESSARY
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't feel like replicating the research I did on this subject previously, you can do a search on this forum if you choose, here is a excerpt from wikipedia referencing the Butler report:

  9. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    absolutely ridiculous... especially the fact that you're referencing the very unofficial wikipedia as your main source... and cherrypicking certain aspects of it, to boot... unfortunately for your claim, you also left this part out:

    also:

    "In the run-up to war in Iraq, the British Intelligence Services apparently believed that Iraq had been trying to obtain uranium from Africa; however, no evidence has been passed on to the IAEA apart from the forged documents"

    the British claimed (i.e., asserted) that Saddam sought uranium from Africa, but a reasonably critical review of their claims reveals them to be mere assertions (bunk); the evidence makes it clear that the British Government made numerous false or misleading claims in order to peddle their so-called evidence and that their "evidence" was actually alleging that Iraq had bought uranium from Africa.

    the fact is, the CIA did not consider the British intel to be credible and they said so repeatedly prior to the Bush 2003 State of the Union (SOTU). INR had always considered the uranium claim to not be credible. So, Bush's SOTU statement was false since he was confidently endorsing a claim that our own intelligence agencies had discarded as not being credible. In other words, if A knew B was peddling something that is not credible and therefore discarded B's claims, for A to later claim that we trust B because B trusts itself is the height of dishonesty. Either you trust B or you don't. Both cannot simultaneously be true.

    It is also instructive to note something that the U.S. SSCI Report and the British Butler Report deliberately hid from the public. Around the time of Bush's SOTU speech and immediately prior to Colin Powell's Feb 2003 speech to the UN that occurred shortly after Bush's SOTU speech, the CIA communicated with the British regarding the uranium claim and based on the information exchanged, Colin Powell did not find the uranium allegation to be credible. This is significant for many reasons but particularly so because it was the only (fake) defense that the Bushies were left with.

    I'll have MUCH more on this later.... Fact is, the Butler Report, and the preceeding Hutton Report have been completely obliterated... And only the staunchest deniers and war defenders are still holding to the vague claim that Iraq ever sought uranium from Niger, or anywhere in Central Africa...

    Nice try, however...
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Some more from Hitchens in Slate magazine about the fraud and his wife (Wilson) and the Iraqi attampts to obtain yellowcake from Niger.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2146475/



    BTW I urge the reader to go to the link for the Hitchens column. There are a ton of embedded links to further information supporting his thesis.
  11. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Now you're just going backwards, as this has become laughingly easy... An opinion piece from Christopher Hitchens is your reference in retort? From Slate??? LOL

    Hitchens is a vociferous critic of what he describes as "fascism with an Islamic face," and he is sometimes described as a "neoconservative". Hitchens describes himself as "on the same side as the neo-conservatives", and refers to his "temporary neocon allies."

    This is a man who, in a Sept. 5, 2005, article titled "A War To Be Proud Of", stated "Prison conditions at Abu Ghraib have improved markedly and dramatically since the arrival of Coalition troops in Baghdad." ... Oh? Ok, really, Hitch?

    This is also a man who, in a June 5, 2006 article on the alleged killings of Iraqi civilians by US Marines in Haditha, actually said, "all the glib talk about My Lai is so much propaganda and hot air." ....

    Regardless of his blatant agenda, Hitchen's assessment of Zahawie's role has been contradicted time and time again, including by the IAEA. The Butler Report claims that "intelligence" showed that the known visit to Niger in February 1999 by Iraq's Wissam Al-Zahawie was "for the purpose of acquiring uranium". ... Yet, the Report itself features a lengthy extract from the IAEA, where the IAEA specifically explains why the evidence was quite strong that this visit had nothing to do with purchasing uranium (more discussion on this visit here).... the British government (and the Butler review you cling to) just decided to ignore the IAEA explanation because it had faith in its own "credible" intelligence. ... intel even the CIA was scoffing at...

    What you have here is nothing but guesswork and more vague dot-connecting that comes to the conclusion Hitchens wants to believe... NOTHING concrete. ... Much the same as Bush/Cheney's overall ruse. ... You don't base your argument for war on such vague, highly disputed guesswork that you hope to believe is true...

    Hitchens is trying, STILL, to justify a lie (Niger yellowcake to Iraq) and smear a dissenter (Joe Wilson) of fraudulent Cheney/Bush foreign policy... Unfortunately, barely no one else is buying his straw grasping... Well, accept for guys like you, who selectively believe only what you are ever hoping to hear, nevermind the OJ-like mountain of evidence to the contrary...

    It's really quite sad...
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2007
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Try reading the article Hitchens unlike you documents his opinions. BTW what gives the state Dept more credibility on Intel matter than the intel agencies.
  13. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    ummm... unlike me? i'm not presenting opinion here, i'm presenting fact... you're the one presenting opinion...

    anyhow, i did read the article, and remembering this clown from his many windy appearances on Bill Maher, laughed my way through it...

    regardless, you've underscored how/why your argument here has fallen flat on its azz: you're citing two things: 1) one neoconcervative journalist's OPINION based on a bizarre set of assumptions; and 2) the highly controversial and summarily debunked Butler report.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2007
  14. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    it matters little whether or not a person like this can handle the truth or not... what matters is that his assertion is held accountable for anyone who reads it to witness...
  15. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    But you LOVED Hitchens when he spouts YOUR ideological line !! Can we all say, "Fair weather friends" ??

    Actually, this the same treatment all former Leftists get once they come around to their senses and realize that chaos and anarchy really are NOT the best things in the world. Then, their former comrades in arms despise them.

    So much for peace, love, and a better way.

    //
  16. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    that's brilliant, Fogbuster... really some deep stuff....

    but what about yellowcake from Niger?... we're all still waiting for you to weigh in on that matter... do you buy patsfan13's alternate universe theory, or was the CIA's, IAEA's or Joe Wilson's take of events in Niger enough for you?
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hitchens a neocon???????????


    HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

    How old are you 15?


    Hitchens has been on the left hsi whole life.
  18. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    you're laughing about something in particular that is funny? .....

    ummm... i never said he WASN'T on the left, now did i? however, what i did do was quote his own words... "my neocon allies"... are you disputing THAT? ...

    this may be news to you, but the two -- left and "neocon" -- are not mutually exclusive... you do know this, yes?
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2007
  19. Fogbuster

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    So what kind of outcome are you aiming at, Press?? Just another round of recriminations, revenge, scape-goating, and temporary satiation of blood lust?? What's the point of this quest of "yellow cake"?? Somehow I get the feeling you are more interested in scalps (of Bush and anyone who shows even a scintilla of compassion for him) on the wall of your den than in solving the *shedding of blood*.


    //
  20. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    i want the truth to be acknowledged... for once in your posting life.... just for once, admit, they lied...

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