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A play Pats NEVER use...that I feel could serve them well...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by oldrover, Oct 29, 2007.

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  1. oldrover

    oldrover Rookie

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    The shovel pass, and here's why...

    It's essentially play-action in reverse, faking pass and running the ball, with more holes opened in the defense. Maroney and Faulk could be KILLER there. Am I missing something? Do they use this play and I haven't noticed? Or am I wrong about the play's effect itself?
  2. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    I like it better than a draw, and Maroney and Faulk would be lethal with some running room.

    It's a good idea, but only use it if teams are starting to really over-commit to the pass.
  3. chunkypony

    chunkypony Rookie

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    IMHO, a shovel pass raises the likelyhood of a fumble. Kind of a scary play if you ask me.
  4. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    A shovel pass is just that... a pass. Not a fumble.
  5. RobAllan

    RobAllan Rookie

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    No I agree. The shovel pass is dangerous. Although it adds some excitement (Brett Favre) the result is not always particularly good. It does greatly increase the chance of a fumble.

    May I also commend you on this thread? I was scared to death from the topic I was going to open the thread and see a picture of a QB doing a kneel-down.
  6. chunkypony

    chunkypony Rookie

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...


    O RLY?

    I never said it was a fumble, did I? No, I said it raises the likelyhood of a fumble, as in, the reciever catches it, turns around, makes a move, and gets blasted by a D-Lineman and fumbles the ball. That is more likely to occur if he is recieving the ball in a strange way, such as the football being flipped at him end over end. Unlike a handoff, where the RB recieves it firmly into his gut, the shovel pass is awkward. Why not just use a screen pass?
  7. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Psycho Pass

    Just scratchin' lines in the dirt!
    But you got me thinking along those lines.

    Have you EVER seen? ... a two-handed (underhand) pitch to the side - angled forward, of course.
    I haven't.

    It could be quite a variant on those max-protect, deep drop, long passes
    we now see a lot of.

    To a RB who chip-blocked a second earlier.
    Quicker than a dump-off pass overhand ... overhead.
    Easy way to evade rushers jumping with hands held high.
    In effect, a shovel pass off tackle - instead of up the middle.

    If they ever try it, i want it named after me ... the Psycho pass.
  8. zarakotas5

    zarakotas5 Rookie

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    I agree with the OP very much, but I'd overhand it, not shovel it. 90% of play action fakes end with Maroney unimpeded through a whole you could pilot a tugboat through. Then he stands there without a defender within 5 yards, including turned around DLs. A toss or two could be big gainers and future fakes would hold the defenders that much longer.
  9. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    HAHAHAHA....THAT IS GREAT

    MADE ME SMILE LIKE HELL
  10. fourthandmiles

    fourthandmiles Rookie

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    One of these teams will learn to account for Fulk on third down. If they do it would be a good play.
  11. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Psycho Pass

    First play from scrimmage in the MNF game,
    Cutler almost threw a Psycho pass.

    Was more straight forward than angled ... and he kinda shot-putted it, hands up, from waist height
    ... but it was two-handed.

    Receiver muffed it. Incomplete.
  12. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    I agree, high risk to reward ratio. If someone sniffs it out you've got a receiver in traffic looking the wrong way.
  13. patsfan209

    patsfan209 Rookie

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    I still vividly remember Favre in one game (likely on a broken play) during the mid-90s where he shovel-passed the ball to a defensive player who ran it all the way back - unopposed - for a long TD. The shovel pass is dangerous for that reason.

    Not every QB can do shovel passes. If Brady and the offense can do them or were comfortable doing them, we would have seen it long ago.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2007
  14. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    My apologies. It was just the way you worded it.

    Anyways, you rarely see "real" passes in those situations because you have a bunch of really tall D-lineman standing in the vicinity, usually waving their arms. It's hard to throw a middle screen into all that.

    Two other plays you can use in place of the shovel pass and middle screen are the circle route and the "fake handoff" route. Faulk often runs the circle route where he circles around the end and sits down in the middle of the field 5 yards down. That's a great route against a Tampa 2 because the Mike vacates that space.

    Donald Lee ran a great fake handoff route for Favre two weeks ago against the Redskins where he dove through a gap between the left tackle and guard from a left-offset fullback slot and ran straight up the hash for 60 yards.

    For passes behind the line, however, the shovel pass is often the easiest to execute. It's not that different from a simple pitch, which is like the third thing a quarterback learns to do, after the snap and the handoff.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2007
  15. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    maybe last year with the dink and dunk O, but there's no use for it now. High risk especially when a screen pass can be quicker and more effective. What I want is for Brady and Moss to get the flee flicker down. Now that's a fun play.
  16. BingoBrown

    BingoBrown Rookie

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    What I like in the Redskins game were throws to Maroney in
    open space he is deadly. :cool:
  17. smg93

    smg93 Rookie

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    Re: A play Pats NEVER use... that I feel could serve them well...

    I think we are doing ok with the offense this year even without the shovel pass...
  18. He Ban Me

    He Ban Me Banned

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    I hope you use it.
  19. CTPatsFan

    CTPatsFan Rookie

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    I was thinking of the old Statue of Liberty :)
  20. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with the posters that say the shovel pass is a risky play. It's not done often because even the best QB have troubles controling the ball throwing it underhand. The tradional screen pass which we do often is basically the same play and achieves the same results with a higher percentages of success and less percentage of failure.
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