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A nice victory for NRA leaders

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Dec 25, 2012.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Those rabid supporters of the NRA who look the other way even though the organization has consistently opposed background checks at gun show and in private sales. While it's possible he got the gun by some other means, the fact that there is a legal way for him to illegally attain a weapon is outrageous.

    Webster Gunman Used Bushmaster, Left Chilling Note - ABC News

    A convicted killer, who shot dead two firefighters with a Bushmaster assault rifle after leading them into an ambush when they responded to a house fire he set in Western New York, left behind a typewritten note saying he wanted to "do what I like doing best, killing people," police said.

    ...

    Armed with a Smith & Wesson .38 caliber revolver, a Mossman 12-gauge shotgun, and the Bushmaster, Spengler killed two firefighters, and injured two more as well as an off-duty police officer at the scene.

    As a convicted felon, Spengler could not legally own a firearm and police are investigating how he obtained the weapons.
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    I wonder why, if it is as someone said in another thread, that he'd rather face a handgun or a shotgun than an assault weapon, at least two of the most recent killers had an assortment of weapons to choose from, including shotguns and handguns, and still chose to use the assault weapon?

    Perhaps the shotgun and/or handgun would NOT have killed as well, after all?
  3. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Where does the NRA stand on letting this guy have a gun? Forget for a moment that the guy was pardoned, which is a head scratcher. The guy bludgeoned his grandmother to death with a hammer................So, he paid his dues and within his rights to have a firearm?
    Seriously, I would like the NRA to make a statement.
  4. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I think they would say it's up to everyone else to have one also to protect themselves from him.
  5. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    More cowbells.
  6. Ivan

    Ivan On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    I'm pretty sure the NRA believes that fireman should be packing automatic weapons and clear the scene before they try to put out the fire.
  7. PatsFanInVa

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    Hey if he wanted to light a house on fire, isn't that his right? Then these jackbooted government agents walked in to put out the fire and he used a "second amendment remedy," to quote Bachmann or Palin or some silly Con.

    Really guys? We don't need gun control?

    Really?
  8. Hamar

    Hamar Rookie

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    Ban assault rifles and close the loopholes. It is beyond idiotic to put in place a law that says a background check is required for gun ownership and then have loopholes that let someone legally buy a gun with no background check.

    Just because gun ownership is a right does not mean it has to be open ended and have no rules. Oh well, I also think you should have to show ID of some sort to vote too, so what do I know.
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I really don't think many people are against voter ID, but it has to be done in way that's fair. The way the Republicans proposed it meant that those with cars or passports would almost certainly already have the ID, while the poor and disabled (who often don't have photo ID or passports) would have to go get it. When a person is very poor, it's not easy to gather the paperwork, fill out the forms, and travel to the ID place. If we really want voter ID, then we have to start early, make it free, and make it easy for people to get. If we started that now, we could have voter ID by 2016 in way that embraced democracy, not hindered it.

    As to your points about gun control, we agree.
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I missed where the NRA supported allowing convicted murderers toown weapons.

    BTW, he killed his mother with a hammer,should we outlaw those also?


    Late entry and perhaps the leader for dumbest thread of the year.
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2012
  11. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    Did you also miss the part where the NRA doesn't support 100% background checks for all gun buyers?

    They don't have to support allowing convicted murderers to own weapons for convicted murderers to be able to buy weapons - and until background checks are required for all gun sales (including those through private dealers, the internet and gun shows) the NRA allows convicted murderers to buy them.

    BTW, he killed his 92 year old grandmother with a hammer in 1981 when he was a 30 year old man - which is considerably different than a 62 year old man managing to kill two firefighters and injure two others -all decades younger than himself and in the prime of their life - with a hammer. I'm pretty sure attacking a truck full of fireman, armed with a hammer rather than an assault rifle, would have had a far different outcome than 2 dead and 2 injured.

    Hammers and halagons are part of our equipment - and our hammers are bigger than his hammer.


    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2012
  12. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    You lost me. What does that mean?
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The NRA doesn't allow convicted murderers weapons, but by not supporting background checks at gun shows and even private sales it seems to me they are trusting the integrity of the murderers to follow the law. I take it you trust murderers to do the right thing?

    As far as the hammer goes, killers will always find weapons, but in my opinion hammers are safer than guns. You're burdened by the reality that societies with stricter gun control have fewer murders.
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2012
  14. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    SNL skit with Blue Oyster Cult and Will Ferral. Farral is performing with the group clanging cowbells in "Don't Fear the Reaper". Cristopher Walkin (as Bruce Dickinson) asks for more cowbells.
    The difference was that the skit was hilarious. Interchange Walkin for Wayne LaPierre.
  15. Hamar

    Hamar Rookie

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    Yeah, but both voting and owning guns are rights. If I have to have ID to own a gun, and I think I should at the very least, then why not ID to vote? Disabled people have to have photo ID to get on disability, and poor people need photo ID to get assistance of pretty much any kind...
  16. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    Yes, in many cases they do need ID. But it doesn't have to be photo ID and it certainly doesn't have to be state issued ID. It can be combination birth certificate, utility bill, baptismal certificate, school ID, building ID, work ID, bankbook, income tax return, etc. No one objects to any of those things being required to register to vote or being used as ID to vote. The objection is to limiting the forms of identification deemed valid.

    And I am unsure if disabled people need photo ID to get disability....small children with certain diseases get SSI - and they certainly don't have state photo IDs. My mother is on medicaid and she didn't need (or possess) photo ID to be accepted.
  17. Hamar

    Hamar Rookie

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    My girlfriend's son is Autistic and when he turned 18 and was able to get disability he had to have a photo ID, either state ID or drivers license. It may be different from state to state. The point is that just because something is a right does not mean that rules can not govern that right.

    If that were true then anyone could buy a gun with no ID or background check and have no waiting period or even a record of having bought a gun. I think we both agree that, that would be a very bad scenario...
  18. patsfan13

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    All sorts of laws against a guy like this having a gun in NY, who'd those laws prevent this murder by this evil person?
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why in the world are you taking a position that favors killers? I really don't get it. This is not about denying people guns, it is about making sure that background checks are done before people get guns in their hands. While some killers will get guns no matter what, from what I have seen of violent individuals, they are generally not into killing, but rather burst into a rage they cannot control. Background checks probably won't stop those who plan murder from getting weapons, but if it makes it more difficult for them, they may in some cases have to settle for lesser weapons.
  20. Patradomous

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    #87 Jersey

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