A lot of stupid money being thrown out there

[WTE]

By all means, I'd like to know what stupid mistakes the Bills and Browns made. Who did they overpay for? From where I'm sitting, both made good solid moves to shore up weak points. Cleveland hasn't done much to bolster their secondary and both teams still have weaknesses. However, they could fill their holes pretty decently in the draft.

Besides, I'm not entirely sure how the 2nd place AFC East team and 10-6 Cleveland are the bottom of the barrel. Just because they didn't go 16-0 doesn't mean they're JV squads.

You've got to be kidding me! Cleveland doesn't pick until the 4th round next year yet they give the former Patriots # 4 receiver 5 years 35 million with 10 million guaranteed? They also traded a 3rd and 5th for an overweight Shaun Rogers who pissed of Marinelli for being so fat. Dumb moves all around for which they will begin paying dearly in 2009.

The Bills also mortgaged their future by sending a 3rd and 5th for a steroid using, malcontent with an ankle issue. Stroud's best days are far behind him.

I wouldn't expect a Steelers fan to understand Economics 101.

 

[nittanylions52]

Trading for Marcus Stroud may be a mistake for the Bills. There are legitimate concerns how his ankle will hold up.

There probably are. If he can stay healthy, he's a force. If not, he's a bust. But trading a 3rd and a 5th, and not giving him a significant raise means he doesn't really fall under this category. It's not a stupid mistake until we see how he produces. It could turn out to be an absolute steal, but it could turn out to be a bust. Labelling it a stupid mistake at this point isn't legitimate.

Cleveland and Buffalo did pick up some decent people... maybe at a high price, but nevertheless.

They might have overpaid somewhat, but compared to the contracts listed here, they definitely didn't. Corey Williams' contract compared to Tommy Kelly's? I can't think of any blatant "stupid mistakes" of the Bills either. How did they grossly overpay someone? They might have overpaid Mitchell, but 3.5 mil per year is beans compared to a lot of these contracts.

 

[Deus Irae]

A large reason for that is the lack of cap space for those teams

Ok, your post is a good place for my question, although let me stress that I'm not asking this to argue with you, but using your post to point something out. Remove the Steelers from the equation entirely, and don't count the CB position for NE (Because of Samuel) when responding to this question, please.

What players have been signed (free agents after the period began.... no trades, please) that would be definite starters on New England, San Diego or Indianapolis? Please match the players to the teams.

 

[mangenious]

The San Diego Chargers have plenty of cap space.

Ok but that is only one of the four teams, Colts have no room, Steelers I believe are limited, and the pats are limited in spending big $ assuming they resign Moss

 

[mangenious]

Ok, your post is a good place for my question, although let me stress that I'm not asking this to argue with you, but using your post to point something out. Remove the Steelers from the equation entirely, and don't count the CB position for NE (Because of Samuel) when responding to this question, please.

What players have been signed that would be definite starters on New England, San Diego or Indianapolis? Please match the players to the teams.

Maybe Kawika Mitchell to the Pats? Florence for the Colts , Gibril Wilson maybe for the cahrgers. none of those are locks or strong candidate and I see what you are thinking. My point however was that the Colts could not upgrade a position of need w/ a top FA right now even if they wanted to. The steelers let Faneca go more because they knew they could not afford him then not wanting him.

 

[nittanylions52]

You've got to be kidding me! Cleveland doesn't pick until the 4th round next year yet they give the former Patriots # 4 receiver 5 years 35 million with 10 million guaranteed? They also traded a 3rd and 5th for an overweight Shaun Rogers who pissed of Marinelli for being so fat. Dumb moves all around for which they will begin paying dearly in 2009.

The Bills also mortgaged their future by sending a 3rd and 5th for a steroid using, malcontent with an ankle issue. Stroud's best days are far behind him.

I wouldn't expect a Steelers fan to understand Economics 101.

Hahaha, a Steelers fan? I also wouldn't expect an arrogant Pats fan to actually ask and figure out what team I root for instead of assuming based on what college team I root for.

A third and a fifth round pick for Stroud? Are you serious? Boy, the Bills gave up their future there. They still have 8 picks in the draft. What a dumb mistake. Stroud has concerns, but he also has a lot of potential. Please tell me how any of these "mistakes" compare to the contracts listed in the original post?

Rogers and Stroud are both Pro Bowl players when they're healthy and motivated. Sometimes a change of scenery can do wonders (e.g. Randy Moss).

I believe Stallworth entered the 2007 season as the #2 WR. I also didn't see Brady throw to him that much, and I did see him make a lot of plays. They probably overpaid, but it added a solid weapon to their roster.

EDIT: Look up your numbers. Stallworth signed a 7 year contract for 35 million. And according to pft:

"So despite the appearance of a $5 million annual average, it's less than $4.5 million."

Keep trying.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Nice list. No wonder Moss' deal isn't yet done yet because the chasm seems to be a lot wider than anticipated.

I think I better start preparing to consider the option that he might not get signed at all. Hope that's not the case. If it does, I am going to have BB's dour expression and keep muttering "it is what it is...":snob:

 

[Deus Irae]

Hahaha, a Steelers fan? I also wouldn't expect an arrogant Pats fan to actually ask and figure out what team I root for instead of assuming based on what college team I root for.

A third and a fifth round pick for Stroud? Are you serious? Boy, the Bills gave up their future there. They still have 8 picks in the draft. What a dumb mistake. Stroud has concerns, but he also has a lot of potential. Please tell me how any of these "mistakes" compare to the contracts listed in the original post?

Rogers and Stroud are both Pro Bowl players when they're healthy and motivated. Sometimes a change of scenery can do wonders (e.g. Randy Moss).

I believe Stallworth entered the 2007 season as the #2 WR. I also didn't see Brady throw to him that much, and I did see him make a lot of plays. They probably overpaid, but it added a solid weapon to their roster.

Not to delve into this too deeply, but Stroud has more than just the injury as an issue. He also flunked a steroid test. The trade was one where the Jaguars were more than happy to have him looking for a trading partner, so it's not as if Jacksonville fought to keep him. In a sane world, that would raise all kinds of questions.

 

[ATippett56]

Maybe Kawika Mitchell to the Pats?

Victor Hobson is a much better fit for the New England Patriots. Besides, Kawika Mitchell is not a stack and shed type linebacker.

Florence for the Colts

The Colts have drafted at least five cornerbacks in the last three years.

Gibril Wilson maybe for the Chargers.

The Chargers traded up in last year's draft to select safety Eric Weddle.

 

[Rob0729]

Never said it wasnt, im just saying thats how the markets goin these days and your going to have to adjust to it some degree.

So should the Pats rush out and overpay for marginal players? I don't get why the Pats would need to adjust to teams rushing out to overpay get players who probably won't be much of an upgrade to what they had already because they are the best of a bad lot.

The thing is a lot of the players I would want the Pats to get are still out there and not getting a lot of action (Clark Haggans, Victor Hobson). Many good players (at relative to the current free agent class) will be available in the second wave of free agency where salaries will be more reasonable.

I'm sorry, but why overpay for average talent just because everyone else is. The Pats have adjusted to the rise in the cap in previous years by getting guys who aren't getting the deals they want on the open market and take one year deals to rehab their careers (Stallworth, Washington) or trade for them (Moss and for all intents and purposes, Welker). I think the trade market is a better option these days than the free agent market.

 

[mangenious]

Victor Hobson is a much better fit for the New England Patriots. Besides, Kawika Mitchell is not a stack and shed type linebacker.

The Colts have drafted at least five cornerbacks in the last three years.

The Chargers traded up in last year's draft to select safety Eric Weddle.

I agree with all these points. I just was merely trying to find any free agent who has already signed and could possible answer his question.

 

[nittanylions52]

Not to delve into this too deeply, but Stroud has more than just the injury as an issue. He also flunked a steroid test. The trade was one where the Jaguars were more than happy to have him looking for a trading partner, so it's not as if Jacksonville fought to keep him. In a sane world, that would raise all kinds of questions.

True. However, some rumors tell the story like this: Stroud took the drugs to recover from the injury, and when he got caught, Jacksonville left him in the dust.

Also, I believe I saw an article where Stroud specifically said he got the legitimate drugs from his pharmacist, looked to see if it was on the banned substances list and didn't see it. It might sound fishy like that, but consider what the Bills went through with Hargrove, I can't see them ignoring the substance abuse. I'm sure they made it known they would not tolerate him doing that again.

My point is that there's a lot of players who have "concerns." Doesn't mean it's always a stupid mistake. Heck, how many people outside of NE thought that Moss would probably be a stupid mistake? Did he not come with concerns? Granted, NE is probably the best place for a WR to fix his attitude problems, but just because there are "concerns" doesn't mean it's a stupid mistake to give up a 3rd and a 5th (seriously? how many people really think that's "mortgaging off the future"?) for a DT like Stroud.

 

[slash83]

So should the Pats rush out and overpay for marginal players? I don't get why the Pats would need to adjust to teams rushing out to overpay get players who probably won't be much of an upgrade to what they had already because they are the best of a bad lot.

The thing is a lot of the players I would want the Pats to get are still out there and not getting a lot of action (Clark Haggans, Victor Hobson). Many good players (at relative to the current free agent class) will be available in the second wave of free agency where salaries will be more reasonable.

I'm sorry, but why overpay for average talent just because everyone else is. The Pats have adjusted to the rise in the cap in previous years by getting guys who aren't getting the deals they want on the open market and take one year deals to rehab their careers (Stallworth, Washington) or trade for them (Moss and for all intents and purposes, Welker). I think the trade market is a better option these days than the free agent market.[/QUOTE]

Well will see how it goes cause were not going to get an impact player for next year unless we pull off a trade, or through the draft IMO.

 

[ATippett56]

I agree with all these points. I just was merely trying to find any free agent who has already signed and could possible answer his question.

The only problem with the Chargers strategy this year is that San Diego is without a second, third, and another lower round draft pick (exercised in the 2007 supplemental draft). I have no idea if the Chargers will be granted compensatory draft picks in the 2008 NFL Draft.

 

[WTE]

A third and a fifth round pick for Stroud? Are you serious? Boy, the Bills gave up their future there. They still have 8 picks in the draft. What a dumb mistake. Stroud has concerns, but he also has a lot of potential. Please tell me how any of these "mistakes" compare to the contracts listed in the original post?

Do you really think Stroud will still be with the Bills 2 years from now? Seriously. The guy is now on the NFL Substance Abuse Program and won't have his 'Roids to fall back on like he did in the past. Meanwhile, Buffalo's 3rd and 5th pick will be long gone.

Rogers and Stroud are both Pro Bowl players when they're healthy and motivated. Sometimes a change of scenery can do wonders (e.g. Randy Moss).

Yeah, Cleveland and Buffalo are a great change of scenery. Kinda like Baghdad and Siberia.

I believe Stallworth entered the 2007 season as the #2 WR. I also didn't see Brady throw to him that much, and I did see him make a lot of plays. They probably overpaid, but it added a solid weapon to their roster.

Brady didn't throw to Donte much because he couldn't read defenses as well as Jabar and didn't run the proper routes. Cleveland signed a # 4 to a 10 mil guaranteed contract. Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree with all these points. I just was merely trying to find any free agent who has already signed and could possible answer his question.

Sadly, Mangenious, while Jets fans are probably overhyped by their start to the new 'season', a fair chunk of Patriots fans have turned into complete idiots and are crying because New England hasn't signed Bob the Janitor to a 5 year, $55 million dollar deal. Part of this is because Moss hasn't signed, but a large part is simply people behaving as if they don't have the brains God gave a turnip.

 

[Deus Irae]

True. However, some rumors tell the story like this: Stroud took the drugs to recover from the injury, and when he got caught, Jacksonville left him in the dust.

Also, I believe I saw an article where Stroud specifically said he got the legitimate drugs from his pharmacist, looked to see if it was on the banned substances list and didn't see it. It might sound fishy like that, but consider what the Bills went through with Hargrove, I can't see them ignoring the substance abuse. I'm sure they made it known they would not tolerate him doing that again.

My point is that there's a lot of players who have "concerns." Doesn't mean it's always a stupid mistake. Heck, how many people outside of NE thought that Moss would probably be a stupid mistake? Did he not come with concerns? Granted, NE is probably the best place for a WR to fix his attitude problems, but just because there are "concerns" doesn't mean it's a stupid mistake to give up a 3rd and a 5th (seriously? how many people really think that's "mortgaging off the future"?) for a DT like Stroud.

Because of where Buffalo has been for years, it will be looked at as stupid if it doesn't pan out. I'm not saying that's right, but it's what happens when you suck for a couple of years and trade away draft picks while trying to rebuild.

 

[Rob0729]

Well will see how it goes cause were not going to get an impact player for next year unless we pull off a trade, or through the draft IMO.

I don't think there were more than 2-3 impact players in free agency. Who really was an impact player on the free agent market beyond Moss, Samuel, and Briggs? I can't think of many or any. All the other free agents that I would have considered an impact player were franchised.

Besides, who said we need to sign more impact players. We need solid players who fit our system. We have added a lot of guys in the past who fit that mold who weren't considered great free agent catches at the time including Vrabel, Roman Phifer, Bobby Hamilton, David Patten, Sammy Morris, Joe Andruzzi, Tyrone Poole (at least one year), Junior Seau, Rodney Harrison (believe to be done due to injuries), Christian Fauria, etc.

 

[mangenious]

Sadly, Mangenious, while Jets fans are probably overhyped by their start to the new 'season', a fair chunk of Patriots fans have turned into complete idiots and are crying because New England hasn't signed Bob the Janitor to a 5 year, $55 million dollar deal. Part of this is because Moss hasn't signed, but a large part is simply people behaving as if they don't have the brains God gave a turnip.

I already know im overhyped just for the sheer fact that we didnt get 8 JAG's for the 3rd offseason in a row. Unless Moss goes else were which I doubt will happen, the Pats are fine. At worst you guys host a wild card divisional game b/c no one in the AFC East is ready to knock off the Pats

 

[nittanylions52]

Do you really think Stroud will still be with the Bills 2 years from now? Seriously. The guy is now on the NFL Substance Abuse Program and won't have his 'Roids to fall back on like he did in the past. Meanwhile, Buffalo's 3rd and 5th pick will be long gone.

Yeah, Cleveland and Buffalo are a great change of scenery. Kinda like Baghdad and Siberia.

Brady didn't throw to Donte much because he couldn't read defenses as well as Jabar and didn't run the proper routes. Cleveland signed a # 4 to a 10 mil guaranteed contract. Thank you for proving my point.

LOL. I just find it entirely amusing that a guy with Rodney Harrison in his profile is busting someone's chops for trading for a guy who took banned substances once.

Meanwhile, Buffalo's 3rd and 5th round picks will be long gone? To what? Backup players on another team? Seriously. They aren't Miami. They don't need 20 draft picks per year. Get a clue.

A #4 WR coming from the 2007 NE Patriots is easily a #2 most anywhere else. He got 4.5 million per year. Please tell me how that's overpaying compared to Berrian's contract?

The whole point of this thread is that teams overpaid. There are a lot more FA's getting overpaid than any of the ones who went to the Bills or Browns. There's a lot of teams who overpaid for guys, and they don't include the Bills or Browns. In fact, neither of those teams signed any of the guys in the original post, except Stallworth (and his numbers are wrong). Coincidence? No....

And yes, I do believe Stroud will be on the Bills two years from now. If Larry Tripplett can make it that long, I'd have to believe Marcus Stroud could too.