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A few things to think about

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by USCPatriot, Aug 1, 2011.

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  1. USCPatriot

    USCPatriot Practice Squad Player

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    1. With the recent acqusition of Chad Ochocinco, it made me think of our current WR core. He is obviously going to become the #1 WR on the depth chart. With Welker/Branch being the #2 or Branch being #2 and Welker being 90% slot. Now we still have Julian Edelman who has shown monster potential but he doesn't really get the reps. Welker has still got a good 4-5 years left on him, and he has better hands than Edelman. I just feel like it would be good for the team and respectful for Edelman if he were traded to a team were he could start. Tate is obviously a viable asset in the kick return game, so keeping him on the roster is a must. He's not the worst option at WR anyway. Price might have to fight for a roster spot. So now we have Ocho, Welker, Branch and Slater. Slater is for special teams and only that. Now we have 3 GREAT route runners which includes maybe 1 deep threat in Ocho Cinco, but he's obviously the tallest WR on the roster. Should the Pats make a move for a deep threat WR? What would be your reaction if the Pats out of know where signed Randy Moss? Honestly wierder things have happened this year than most so I wouldn't even rule out even the most ludicrous scenarios.

    2. The release of Alge Crumpler. I don't think people realize how much of an impact Alge had on Chris Johnson's 2,000 yard season AND I ASSUME Jarvis's 1,000 yard season. I honestly don't know the statistics of Crumpler's playing time this year so I could be wrong. It did seem though that Crumpler was a major cog in helping a Patriot RB reach a 1,000 yard season. He brought leadership, experience and and overall great presence to this organization. Can that be replaced as easy as Lee Smith?

    3. The release of Ty Warren. Once the patriots got Albert Haynesworth, our D-line seemed like a force to be reconed with. Then Warren is released in a sudden move. Now I feel we are back to square one. Until we sign another DE, I feel like we lack a very important part to our defense. If Haynesworth does not pan out, it wouldn't be the worst thing regarding the trade but regarding personnel it might have seriously damaged this teams D-line. What do you guys think?

    4. Outside Linebackers. Honestly for a while I thought we had the worst set other than Cunningham but there are teams that are just as bad if not worse but still. Anyone think that a move NEEDS to be made to acquire a DECENT OLB? David Thomas looked like a GREAT fit here in NE but unfortunately he re-signed with the Panthers. Honestly Adalius was vastly overpaid for his services but would be vastly under-paid if he were brought in for like a vet minimum. I'm not saying we SHOULD bring him in, i'm just saying that it would be better than what we have right now at OLB. Paying him close to nothing btw.

    5. Is our whole team versatile RB's? Currently we have 5 RB's signed that will most likely make the roster. Lawfirm has not even been given a contract yet which is a bit surprising considering he was the Pats first 1,000 yard rusher since Dillon but highly due to the balance of run vs pass. Dillon was able to due it with a slightly more pass orientated team. If we sign lawfirm, that's 6 RB's we have on the roster. I was VERY surprised to have Sammy Morris back, phenomenal special teams player and a decent RB but I feel like without the right amount of reps he is not worth what were paying. I honestly feel like the Faulk train is on it's last course, like it actually stopped then managed to get the ok for one last trip. I feel like Woodhead is transitioning into the "guy", the third down machine, whatever you want to call him. Now we have 2 rookie RB's .


    EDIT: This was written before the Randy Moss trade, but I was posted after, but I just left it in their for hypothetical situations sake.
     
  2. LetsGoPats36

    LetsGoPats36 On the Game Day Roster

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    First thoughts... USC Sucks, Pete Carroll is still a dbag and your school's recruiting is dirtier than Paris Hilton's snatch :)

    1. I don't like the idea of trading Edelman. We're one play away from losing Welker for the rest of the season, and if we trade Julian we have no capable replacement to fill Welker's huge role in the offense. Plus, I don't think he'd command much in a trade.

    2. I agree, I'd like to see Crumpler back. I've got a feeling his health may not be where it should be. Doesn't seem like any other team is chomping at the bit to snag him up and if anyone knows the value of a blocking tight end, it's BB.

    3. Agreed, there is a pretty obvious need for some DE help.

    4. I think you mean Thomas Davis. David Thomas was the TE we drafted from Texas in 06. If we're switching to mostly a 4-3, and by all accounts it seems like we are, I'd like to see at least one true veteran OLB brought in to compete. Sounds like Spikes is going to play the middle while Guyton and Mayo are on the outside. No idea how well Cunningham will do in the 4-3 as an OLB, maybe he can double as a DE in obvious passing situations. Either way, I'd be surprised if we didn't sign someone to bolster the OLB depth.

    5. Even though Morris and Faulk are back for now, it wouldn't surprise me to see one or both cut if we get BJGE back. It makes very little sense to carry 5 or 6 RBs and I don't see us cutting one of BJGE, Woody, Ridley or Vereen.
     
  3. LetsGoPats36

    LetsGoPats36 On the Game Day Roster

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    Actually, now that I think about it, I can kind of recall us using Morris as a pseudo fullback. Maybe he finds a way to stick building upon that role. He has solid hands and is usually good at attacking the line in short yardage situations.
     
  4. sbpatfan

    sbpatfan Banned

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    How do you seriously damage a defensive line by cutting a player that didn't even play the previous year?
     
  5. LetsGoPats36

    LetsGoPats36 On the Game Day Roster

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    I don't think cutting Warren significantly hampers the DL, per se. However, switching to a 4-3 and not having many, if any, proven DEs that are used to playing the 4-3 definitely does hurt.
     
  6. USCPatriot

    USCPatriot Practice Squad Player

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    Well just say hypothetically that Haynesworth doesn't work out like BB had hoped. Say he is let go mid season or traded or whatever. That would leave us with very little depth, now would you rather Brace at DE, pryor or Ty Warren? I would much rather have warren. Get what i'm saying?
     
  7. sbpatfan

    sbpatfan Banned

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    Yes, we'd all like to have old Warren. And 2003 Ty Law while your at it. Also I'd feel a hell of a lot better if 2003-2004 Richard Seymour was playing with us too. But Warren isn't 2007 Warren, he's 2011 Warren. That's the Ty that just missed a year of football and shrugs off being cut after flunking both his tests.
     
  8. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    #12 Jersey

    I don't think Chad deserves the recognition as the #1 receiver on the depth chart....this is not Larry Fitzgerald and he has proven NOTHING in NE to garnish that away from Branch or Welker.

    Show me something first
     
  9. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Sorry, the Ty Warren who was ready to play football at a high level no longer exists.
     
  10. LetsGoPats36

    LetsGoPats36 On the Game Day Roster

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    With or without Warren, we still have a glaring hole at DE. Who do you envision that's currently on the roster taking a large majority of snaps at end when we're in the 4-3?

    Mike Wright - If I'm not mistaken, played DT in a 4-3 in college. Has played mostly 3-4 DE for us and shifted to the inside when we do 4 man fronts. Is also coming off a season where he suffered a serious head injury.

    Ron Brace - College DT in a 4-3, has been a DE for us in the 3-4... Also coming off an injury. Talented but unproven commodity. I'd probably rather keep him at DT and use in rotation with Albert and Vince

    Brandon Deaderick - I believe he played mostly DT in a 4-3 at Alabama but was playing DE for us in the 4-3. Very unproven player, hope he can break out an be a contributor but I think it might be foolish to rely on that.

    Eric Moore - Another fringe player who has shown flashes... Again, I don't think it would be prudent to count on him as an every game contributor.

    Myron Pryor - Pretty sure he'd be exclusively a DT in a 4-3.

    Jermaine Cunningham - Played DE in college. Maybe he finds a home there again now, but we're pretty thin at LB, as well.

    I think it's obvious we need some proven vets at DE to help out if we really do intend on playing more 4-3 this year.
     
  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    I don't quite follow you here -- it seems a little circular. First you conclude that the WR corps is overstocked, so you cut/trade two promising young WRs including a 2nd-year wideout with good size and great speed who has reportedly looked terrific in camp so far. Then, having cut him, you conclude that there's a lack of size and speed so they move for a deep threat WR? :confused:

    I do think we're counting on Price to some extent in order to show certain looks, and he's obviously no sure thing. But take a look at the receiving talent on this team -- especially considering you want Gronk & Hernandez on the field a ton. How many reps are there to go around?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  12. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    You forgot vintage Vrabel and Bruschi. :)
     
  13. USCPatriot

    USCPatriot Practice Squad Player

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    Ya, I definitely get what your saying. I mean that we are over stocked with guys that don't get many reps and when they do, they don't take full advantage of that opportunity given. Price looked "good" last year but did not see ANY action until what...... week 17?
     
  14. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Warren would be a tackle in the 4-3 as well. That is what he was in college and size-wise he's anmore prototypical 4-3 tackle than end. 4-3 ends tend to be more speed/edge guys like Freeney or McGinnist which is why many envision Cunningham lining up there if the conversion is indeed made.
     
  15. LetsGoPats36

    LetsGoPats36 On the Game Day Roster

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    Yup, that's why I started saying "with or without Warren, we still have a hole at DE"
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  16. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    Actually, it's not obvious.

    The key to a 4-3 will be Haynesworth. If he shows up, Haynesworth and Vince require double teams. 4-2 means 1-2. It's simple math. Any hope of running will require 3 TE sets or a TE will be on a DE.

    Passing downs of Wright, Wilfork, Haynesworth, Pryor has four athletic guys over 300 lbs coming down the road.

    How about running on Brace, Wilfork, Haynesworth, Deaderick?

    The importance of the DE is a legacy. Today's NFL places much more importance on the DT's.
     
  17. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When I think of a deep threat I think of either a burner, a guy that is very fast, or perhaps a tall receiver that is going to win jump balls against shorter defenders. Price has by far the best straight line speed among the Pats receivers, so if that is what folks are looking for I don't know why you would be so quick to give up on him. He was essentially red-shirted last year because of rules prohibiting him from joining in at minicamps until his class graduated, which put his learning curve way behind that of his teammates. In other words he wasn't expected to see the field last year, so don't hold his lack of 2010 playing time against him, or hold it up as "proof" that he's a bust, Belichick has given up on him, whatever.

    As for Chad Ochocinco, he may be a deep threat in comparison to the routes run by Wes Welker, but I don't look at him as your typical deep threat. To me he's more of a mid-range route type of receiver. At 6'1" #85 is not exceptionally tall, and he ran a 4.54 40 (ten years ago); by comparison Price was 4.33.
     
  18. Eat Da Pu Pu

    Eat Da Pu Pu On the Roster

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    I really don't think the D is solid right now, and Haynesworth is still a question mark to me until I see him give the goods on the field. He certainly CAN be dominating and unblockable, but he's just as likely to be disgruntled, out of shape and uncooperative. If we get the good Al I think anyone you put on a line with both he and Wilfork become better just because of the parts around them, and that improves the LB corp and the d-backfield. I still have concern over Haynesworth, he's not a sure thing, but the upside is there.
     
  19. LetsGoPats36

    LetsGoPats36 On the Game Day Roster

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    I forgot football worked according to "simple math"

    If Pryor ever played 4-3 DE, the last time was in high school. Mike Wright, same story.

    The biggest sack total for any of those players in their careers is 8.5 (Haynesworth - he has 30.5 career sacks in 324 games, and we seem to be counting on him for an awful lot when we have no clue what he'll provide after last year and now in a new system)

    You can bet on these guys being effective an pass rushing line if you'd like, I sure wouldn't.

    Seems like a line with the potential to be great against the run, I agree, but you're still counting a lot on Brace and Deaderick, one of which is playing out of position and in total they combine for 11 career starts.

    You sure about that? Look where the money is being spent around the league.
     
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