Welcome to PatsFans.com

A disclaimer about Cassel's back to back 400 yd games

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BradyManny, Nov 24, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I do this only to combat the morons who want to trade Brady (who, ironically, are the same folks who wanted to cut Cassel a couple months ago). I don't do this to take anything from Cassel, who has been a hero...

    But take the 400 yard passing games with a grain of salt, it was done against 2 of the worst passing defenses in the league:

    ESPN - NFL Football Statistics and League Leaders - National Football League

    Jets are 26th and Miami is 28th in the league in passing yards allowed. Of course, Cassel made those #s worse by himself, but you get my point. The biggest test comes this weekend against the top passing defense in the league. I think Cassel and McD will pass that test, and we'll probably hear more clamoring for shipping Brady, but in the meantime, curb your enthusiasm.

    Oh, and while you're all there on that stat page, take a look that the Patriots much maligned passing defense is far better than Miami or NYJ at 18th in the league.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  2. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    [i have not seen a single post where anyone WANTS to trade Brady.
    i have seen some posts suggesting it as a topic of discussion.]

    anyway, good pt about Cassel.
    hes not hte second coming (yet) but he is better than anyone ever thought he would be. and hes improving
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    They aren't great pass defenses, they're ranked 19th and 21st in passer rating allowed.

    But still :

    Jets defense allows 87.7 passer rating, Cassel had a 103.4.
    Dolphins defense allows 89.9 passer rating, Cassel had a 114.0.

    Pittsburgh allows a 71.1, we'll see what happens.
  4. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,926
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    That's a phony stat.

    The Jets are on a big roll. You will give up passing yards if you're playing from in front, especially with Mangini as coach because he plays prevent with 3 score leads.

    The Patriots and the Titans were not running the ball in the second half against the Jets.

    what does that tell you?
  5. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    It tells me the Jets have a suspect pass defense that can't stop the Pats or the Titans when they know we're running. The Jets have a great run defense, but I don't think their pass defense scares anyone.
  6. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Cassel has played great, I'm not trying to argue that. I'm just trying to frame his performance with some perspective when you have about 1 out of 5 posts on here right now contemplating trading Brady.
  7. AStack75

    AStack75 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,089
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Seattle has the 31st ranked passing defense right now so we may see some more fireworks from Cassel in a couple weeks.
  8. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,237
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    This is what McDaniels did with the vaunted Vikings D in '06. . . . Their pass D was a FAIL, and the Patriots utterly embarrassed them.
  9. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Exactly, McD doesn't even both trying to run against teams with good run Ds and bad pass Ds. He just exploits them. Kind of like when Brady dropped 41 points on this Miami team in 30 minutes last season.
  10. CheerforTom

    CheerforTom Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    A disclaimer about that stat: the only reason that's the case is because of the start of the season and the ability of Pats' offense to hold the ball forever and keep the opposing offense off the field. Right now we are as bad defending the pass as any team in the league. It needs to be fixed quickly.
  11. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Cassel has done a great job. The reason Brady has never done the back to back 400 yard thing is two-fold really. He hasn't really needed to and when he has, he hasn't really had the offensive weapons. It is definitely not that he is incapable, of course.

    A struggling defense and an amazing group of WR, along with a depleted backfield leads to...

    But take nothing away from Cassel, he is playing very well and I hope it continues.
  12. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    What difference does who the Pats played make when considering Cassel's accomplishment? It's only been done five times! Think maybe Brady and Montana faced two crappy pass defenses in a row before?

    2004 - Volek does it against Raiders (492) and Chiefs(426)

    Can't find the teams Fouts et al played, but I bet their pass defenses sucked too.
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    Here's a slightly sobering stat :

    Cassel has a 90.5 passer rating. I just calculated the average of all the defenses we've faced and they allow an average of 90.6. Which puts Cassel exactly as a league average QB. Which is still good but it's shocking how bad the defenses we've faced have been this year.
  14. Lampshade

    Lampshade Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,268
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Even with their low ranking, Cassel threw 150 yards over the Jet season average, and 160 yards over the Dolphin season average.

    In my mind there is no disclaimer that can make back-to-back 400+ yard games less impressive.
  15. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Some sobering is necessary. We're all happy for Matt Cassel. But it's crazytalk that you got fans on here wondering if Tom Brady has as a future as a Patriot. A nice good sobering thought such as that stat is a good thing right now - anything that adds perspective is welcome.
  16. ALP

    ALP Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    7,401
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    the passing yds are a testament to how bad our defense played...simple as that
  17. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    No it's not. It's also a testament to how well the offense and Cassel are playing. To try to boil it down to one simple thought is silly.
  18. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,781
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +19 / 1 / -1

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    The worst Pass defenses play a game every week and yet still there are not 400 yard passers every week. I am not sure this is a fair disclaimer. You can only play who is in front of you and to take ones performance vs anyone and temper it is unfair.
  19. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,800
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    AND the Jets and Fins are not part of the NFL??? And what teams did Volek throw against or Fouts??? Sooo....it means nothing??? Time to take that disclaimer and put it where the sun don''t shine.....I Do think talk of replacing Brady is silly...but maling a disclaimer of something not done in the NFL in a bunch of years...by a QB who has not started a fgame before this year in this decade is just a LOT sillier...Sorry..If it was against strike players during a strike year I can SEE a disclaimer...but against 2 teams with winning records?? PLEASE.....
  20. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Um, OK.

    I don't care what Billy Volek did. Billy Volek sucks, and no one cares that he threw back to back 400 yards game.

    I care that Matt Cassel is good, and that his last two games have been amazing, but that he has not done anything to demonstrate that the Patriots have a QB controversy or should make some rash decision in the offseason. You need to calm down.

    I was merely pointing out that Cassel has not yet demonstrated he can defeat a great defense. You have people wanting to keep Cassel next season either in addition to or at the expense of Brady, and he hasn't yet done something Brady has done over and over, and in pressure situations. Next Sunday is Cassel's oppportunity.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  21. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Interesting numbers. When looking at Cassel, I like to look at his development since he has been a moving target through the year.

    - First couple of games, he had a pretty restricted gameplan to work with so he was starting from zero.

    - Through the SD game, the offense expanded a little but he was reluctant to throw through or over coverage. The volatility on the offensive line didn't help.

    - Against Denver and the Rams, he started to loosen up. His footwork stabilized and his throwing motion became more repetitive.

    - He made the turn in the Indy and Buffalo games. The offensive line play improved and he really found his comfort level. He was on time and decisive with his throws...even into coverage. His sense in the pocket made a huge leap and the sacks came down as a result.

    - The first half of the Jets game found the same lousy playcalling that lost the Indy game. Putting Cassel almost exclusively in the shotgun and letting him wing it around was a huge step in his development. He started attacking all areas of the field. Huge days from Watson and Gaffney meant that Cassel was able read the field quickly and accurately instead of locking in on Moss trying to come back in the game.

    - Obviously the game yesterday was tremendous. Continuing the attack mentality from the Jets game, Cassel was a rock in what effectively was his first playoff game...on the road no less. The thing that struck me was that his throws all had the correct pace and altitude for the situation. Take the TDs to Moss...rocket that gives Moss an opportunity for YAC, lob to the back of the end zone and a jump ball slightly underthrown to give Moss a chance to get position and elevate. Really a stellar effort.

    While the defenses on this list are not top-notch, you can see how Cassel has made leaps and bounds to get where he is today. That being said, Cassel still has a fatal flaw that needs to be corrected. When pressured, he prematurely takes his eyes from downfield and tucks the ball away. The sack on 3rd and 2 after the Meriweather int was a prime example of this. That could be problematic against the Steelers. If Cassel can hang in that extra half-second against a big blitz, someone will almost certainly come free for an easy gain.

    If Cassel comes up big against the Steelers, limiting the sacks while getting TDs instead of FGs early, then I think you can reasonably project that he should be effective in the remaining 4 games and into the playoffs. A stinker against Pitt could indicate that he still has some holes that a pressing defense can expose and exploit. Needless to say this is a huge game for both the Pats and Cassel.
  22. T_Brady12

    T_Brady12 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    In Matt Cassel's defense, only Kurt Warner threw for over 400 yards against the Jets. And, this was after the Cards were down 34-0 after the first half.

    And no quarterback has thrown for over 400 yards against the Dolphins this season.

    Infact, true story, Matt Cassel's 400 yard game marked the first time in 10 years to the date that the Dolphins allowed a 400 yard game... oddly enough, it was Drew Bledsoe who threw for 423 yards in a 26-23 win over Miami on November 23rd 1998.
  23. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,926
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    When they know we're passing, you mean?

    Any team with a more than one score lead will tend to give up additional passing yards, if only because they are protecting the deep ball more AND the other team isn't running the ball as much.
  24. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,926
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Just to give some perspective: in the years that New England went 28-4 and won 2 Super Bowls, we were #17 in pass defense the first year, and #31 the second year.
  25. Yehoodi

    Yehoodi Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    620
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    First, only five, yah you heard me correctly - just five, QBs in the HISTORY of the NFL have accomplished what Matt Cassel has done in the last two games and the games are ONLY his 9th and 10th start since highschool, how may QBs could of done that ???

    Second, in the game against the Jets, was the FIRST time in HISTORY that a QB has thrown for 400+ yards and ran for more than 60+ yards. Translation NO QB EVER has done that . .. . PERIOD

    neither of these points are subject to negoiation, they are just the plan facts whether or not you want to avoid them or try to diminish them . . .

    These aren't just solid good games that you tap the guy on the shoulder, they are historic accomplishments, which I hope even the most ardent "we got keep Brady cause he won on '04" enthuastics should realize . . .

    I love Tom Brady as much as the next guy and have him on my Avatar, but the reality of life is we DO NOT know about his rehab, true, its probably a 95% chance he will be 100% again. . . But I am one for doing what every is necessary to keep Cassel for next year at least insofar as insurance to make sure TB is back to is ole self. I for one am NOT interested is seeing Cassel leave and to keep TB "cuase he our guy man" only to see in that he regrettably fall into that 5% class of not being his ole self and/or we have to turn to O'Connell next year . . .

    I say franchise Cassel for one year, then either trade him midseason (once TB gets his sealegs back) or don't sign him at the end of next year . . .

    hey its a tough choice and the Pats regrettable aren't going to know the extent of TB's rehab once FA comes around, but my vote is to franchise Cassel, presuming he continue to produce. . .
  26. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    Everything works together, Pittsburgh is tied with Miami for 22/23 in points scored so teams haven't needed to go balls out trying to score against Pittsburgh in scoring fests. We won't use and abuse them but they aren't inpenetratable either.
  27. everlong

    everlong Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    5,695
    Likes Received:
    23
    Ratings:
    +30 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #12 Jersey
    Anybody find a stat for how QBs do the week following back to back 400 yard performances?

    I have a feeling it's not good. It's just too hard in this league to keep up with that pace. I hope Cassel has at least a decent game because we really need this one (really every game give the playoff tie breakers are against us).

    I also hope he gets down this week because the Steelers will punish him going for extra yards.
  28. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    We drove the ball on them every drive of them game, not just when we were behind. If it weren't for a few miscues in that first half, we wouldn't have been down in the first place. I do not fear the Jets pass defense in the least if we come against them in the playoffs.
  29. everlong

    everlong Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    5,695
    Likes Received:
    23
    Ratings:
    +30 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #12 Jersey
    Cassel is the first player to achieve the feat since Tennessee's Billy Volek did it in 2004 (426 yards on 12/13/04 and 492 yards on 12/19/04). In addition to Volek, the other NFL passers to have achieved the feat are San Diego's Dan Fouts in 1982 (444 yards on 12/11/82 and 435 yards on 12/20/82), Miami's Dan Marino in 1984 (470 yards on 12/2/84 and 404 yards on 12/9/84) and the New York Giants' Phil Simms in 1985 (432 yards on 10/6/85 and 513 yards on 10/13/85).

    Following week:

    Volek 8/20 111 yards 0 TDs 2 INTs
    Fouts 18/30 298 yards 5 TDs 1 INT
    Marino 23/40 340 Yards 4 TDs 2 INTs

    Simms threw for 185 and the Giants won but profootball reference doesn't have all the stats on this game.

    So are you a Volek, Simms, or a Fouts or Marino?

    I'll take Simms and one SB trophy.
  30. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    look at it bigger picture.....

    in the first 5 games, the pats scored more than 20 once (15.8 avg)
    in the last 6 games, the pats have scored less than 20 once (28.0 avg)

    I think you will see the steelers really try to blitz cassel........it will be a test to see what he can do when having to think quick

    I also believe you will see the pats play hurry-up and mix up the counts
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page