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A Common Misconception: Cardinals are much more than Larry Fitzgerald

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Kid~Brady, Sep 14, 2012.

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  1. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    I think the general concensus is that when we hear "Arizona Cardinals" we immediately think Larry Fitzgerald and nothing more but let's not forget that the Cardinals have a very potent defense lead by Darnell Dockett. The O-line held up well against a decent Titans defensive line last week but this defense will be a much better test to really gauge the O-line in my opinion.

    This defense has what it takes to shake Brady a little. I don't think its enough for them to upset us but enough to take a good look at as fans. Thoughts?

    link: Cards' defense can earn respect vs. Pats - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN
  2. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The question though is did the Cards shutdown the Seattle offense because they are that good or that the Seahawks have a rookie QB who may be one of the most overrated players of the preseason?
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  3. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    The Cardinals D has been pretty good for a few years now probably since there SB appearance a few years ago. Its not the nastiest D ever and the rest of the team was pretty bad for a few years so they never really get any props. This is not some one week anomly and one could argue that our D is more deserving of that question than theirs (exchanging rookie for first year starter).
  4. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Their defense is good. I don't disagree with that, but I think their performance last week was not a good indicator because of the fact they faced a rookie QB who might be a long ways away from being a decent starter and a banged up Marshawn Lynch.
  5. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    they have not face a top QB since week 8 last year (ravens) unless you count alex smith as one

    they are also not all that strong against the run.

    I expect the cards to be torn a new one sunday
  6. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    I'm on record as stating the Cardinal defense might be every bit as good as the Raven's D. And in that respect will be a good test for our offense just a week before our game with the Ravens. This is as good a defense as we will face all season. I don't think the Pats are overlooking them. And given how badly our D gave up yards last season, I don't think they can afford to overlook ANYONE. ;)

    If our offense is as efficient as it was against the Titans, I see no reason for it to be effective against the Ravens too. But that's the IF here. (Also we'll be home against AZ and on the road vs Baltimore)
  7. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    I think the cardinals defense benefits statistically from being in the NFC west.

    last year, they got dumped on by newton, manning, roethlisberger, flacco

    they didn't stop anyone good
  8. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    I thought it was somewhat known that they do have some studs on that front line - Calais Cambpell,Darnell Dockett in particular and Adrian Wilson might be getting older but he has been a top safety in his career imo.
  9. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick Rookie

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    No defense (good or bad) can stop us.
  10. BritPat

    BritPat Rookie

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    #54 Jersey

    Washington is their best defender, I wanted the Pats to draft him as well.
  11. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    Well...we did have a shot at him but we took some injury prone TE a few picks before him. And then Cunningham and Spikes a few picks after he was gone.

    hehe
  12. goheels22002

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    #50 Jersey

    We'll see about this vaunted Arizona defense on Sunday at 1 p.m. Pittsburgh Steelers this and Pittsburgh Steelers that.

    In 2011, the Giants, the Vikings, the Ravens and the Steelers all hung 30 or more points on the 8-8 Cardinals. Their biggest win of the season was beating the 8-8 Dallas Cowboys who rang up 327 yards on the Cardinals but somehow only came away with 13 points.

    The Cardinal defense was a middle-of-the road defense ranking 17th in points allowed and 18th in yards allowed. They play in the worst division in the NFC with "pumped and jacked" Seattle, the 49ers and the Rams. The got smoked by the upper echelon teams.

    In 2011 they sucked against the run ranking 21st against the run and 23rd in TDs allowed - they stink in the Red Zone. I look forward to seeing their faces when they look up and see Welker, Gronk, Hernandez and Ridley salivating on 3rd and goal.

    The wise guys have them as 14 point underdogs in this game, so they're not too worried that the Pats won't score on them and just about everybody has the Pats hanging 30 or more on them in the guess the score contest.

    The only common misperception around here is that the Cardinals will be more than a speed bump for Brady, Gronk, Hernandez, Welker (huge game Sunday), Lloyd, Ridley & company in their home opener.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Cardinals defensive scoring rankings under Whisenhunt:

    2011: 17
    2010: 30
    2009: 14
    2008: 28
    2007: 27


    and that's playing in the NFCW.
  14. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan Rookie

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    And if their D is very similar to the Steelers D, doesn't that play into our hand as well? The Pats have, traditionally, had good success against the steelers.

    While it could be considered a trap game with so many obvious advantages:
    • Patriot Home Opener
    • West Coast team coming eats for a 1pm game
    • Backup QB (though that thought can scare me as we've made rookies/journeymen look like world beaters)
    • Vegas with Pats giving 14 points, though that speaks more to psychology than game tiem reality.
    • More weapons than should be legal for a single team :)
  15. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just because many fans and analysts misunderstand that winning football isn't about how good the first 3 guys you can name are, doesn't mean it has any validity.
    I'm not quite sure what leads you to think the Cardinal defense is 'very potent'. 'Very average' might be a complement.
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I hope you are correct, because it would be nice to see the Ravens defense become weak.
  17. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Ken - the problem is THEY AREN'T. There is not one statistic from last year that bears that out. Look at what you want. Sacks, yards, QB rating, turnovers, anything. The Ravens were a top three defense, the Cardinals were an above average defense. Other than listing their good players there's no basis to what you said.

    Also (team not defense specific) :

    They were 6-2 at home, 2-6 on the road.
    They were 7-4 on grass, 1-4 on turf.
    They were 7-3 intdoor, 1-5 outdoor.

    But believe what you want.
  18. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    The Browns did ;)
  19. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Whether we like it or not, the Giants and the Ryans are the only ones who seem to be able to stop us. Rob in that game. We know Rex has. The Giants, unfortunately. Also we are a FAR better offense now than in that Browns game.

    Not many others.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  20. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    But thats just stats. Out defense was ranked 31st last season, although we were in the middle for TDs given up. Defense stats are always a little skewed to me.
  21. PP21

    PP21 Rookie

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    I think there is a big misunderstanding regarding our D. It was ATROCIOUS to start the season last year, so the overall numbers may not be great. New scheme, the lockout, so zero time to learn the system. They had to learn on the go. While the amount of opponents with prolific offenses are limited, putting up these kind of numbers over a 9 game span is still great:
    [​IMG]

    Whatever happened, whatever made the team completely buy-in, we'll never know. The complete 180 they took last year was remarkable.

    With that being said, I still think you guys pose too many matchup problems for us, and we'll get run out of Foxboro, but the D is no slouch. 10 am game, Tom Brady & co, BB, too much.

    I didn't make this, but here is our week 1 defensive chart if anyone cares:
    [​IMG]
    (Walker gave up 1 rec for 11 yds)
    Anyway, good luck, big Tom Brady fan so I hope you guys tear it up again this season.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  22. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    Agreed. Maybe I did take that a little far but my point was to express that many people are marking this down as a win forgetting that their defense does play a part over there. I won't lie, when I think of them, its just shutting down Fitz but given our O-line situation this season, their defense may pose a suitable issue.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  23. goheels22002

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    #50 Jersey

    Exactly right. The Cardinals defense last year was the definition of mediocre against a boatload of crappy offenses.

    The home-road record is significant, especially Sunday with it being a home opener. As Brady would put, everybody will be "lubed up."

    The dome factor is less of a big deal since it's supposed to be a beautiful afternoon.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  24. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I didn't post yardage stats. I posted the scoring stats.


    And, other than wins/losses, everything is just stats. Here are some more, going backwards from 2011 to 2007 (Whisenhunt's tenure excluding this season):

    scoring +/- under Whisenhunt

    21,31,12,18,15 (Warner was the QB for the three seasons in the teens)

    Takeaway/Giveaway ratio
    28,22,24,17,22

    The simple truth is that, while there are some good players out there, the Cardinals defense isn't very good and the rankings reflect that, despite the Cardinals having the benefit of playing other NFCW teams twice every season.
  25. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    True. I see.
  26. PP21

    PP21 Rookie

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    The defense was never anything good or special until we hired Ray Horton as the D-coord. He came from Pittsburgh and has been great. Anything before him I disregard. Team has more talent all-around on D now than in those seasons. I can't think of one player from any of those teams that I'd rather have over anyone on this team (Dansby no, Rolle no, DRC no). This current group is perfect for the system Horton has in place.
  27. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    True, as well. Like I said, I don't think the Cardinals will win, I just think their team is a little better than people give them credit for. Not to mention, they have a pretty good special teams unit.

    With a decent QB, not named Kolb or Skelton, this would be a formidable team.
  28. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    the pats were 31st in yards.....you replied to someone talking points....there's a difference
  29. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    Yeah, I figured that a few posts ago when he responded to me. My bad.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  30. MadCardDisease

    MadCardDisease Rookie

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    You have to remember that the Cardinals had a new OC in Ray Horton last year and he was trying to install the Steeler D with a shortened offseason. All of those QB you mentioned were played in the first 7 games of the season. I mentioned this before in another thread but initially the Cardinals Defensive players didn't buy into the Pittsburg system that Horton was trying to install.

    That all changed after the Cardinals played the Steelers in week 7. The Cardinals Defensive players got to see the Steelers Defense in action. After the game several defensive players from the Steelers talked with players from the Cardinals Defense. They convinced the Cardinals players to give Horton's system a chance and play within the system. After that the rest is history and in those final 9 games the Cardinals defense became one of the better defenses in the league.

    Over the final 9 games of the season last year, the Cardinals defense was ranked in the top 5 of several defensive categories. This include being the best defense at stopping teams on 3rd down and the Second best at stopping teams from scroing TDs in the Redzone.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
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