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A Challenge for Nem

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by QuiGon, Jul 17, 2006.

  1. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Lest I be accused of derailing a thread, I have decided to simply start my own new one..!! I challenge NEM to give a direct yes-or-no answer to the following opinion question. He is more than welcome to expand on his response, but I challenge him to give a direct answer ("I don't know" is not a direct answer).

    Nem, in your opinion, is Jane Fonda guilty of the crime of treason against these United States...?

    I don't want to know what the government did or didn't do. I know you know what she did and you use the word "treason" all the time on these boards so you can't claim you don't know the meaning behind that word.

    Time to cowboy up, Nemmy boy..!!
     
  2. RoadGrader

    RoadGrader Practice Squad Player

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    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
     

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  3. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Hope that puts things into perspective for ya, Quigon
     
  4. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I think you both need to look up the definition of treason... something could be completely contrary to American interests and not constitute treason (giving comfort and aid to America's enemies, in a material way). For the record, I do think things will come out about the administration's actions (probably after they've left office) that will rise to the level of treasonous behaviour, but I don't think you could pin treason on them for even many of the criminal things they've done.
     
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Fonda got exactly what she deserved and she knows it that is why she became a born again christian, she knows the history books will take care of her.
    Whenever her name is mentioned in future history classes she will be considered a piece of human waste, a foul smelling piece of sh!t.

    The b!tch will never be able to undo her actions.

    F-ck Jane Fonda.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2005
  6. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    While I don't agree with what she did and condemn her for it, she:

    1) Never took an oath to serve the U.S.

    2) Her actions didn't amount to 1/100th of the future damage that George Bush has committed in selling our future to Iranian oil interests. (think of that: every time you gas up your car, Ahmed Ahmedinejad gets a little more dough for his nuclear program).

    Any reasonable and unbiased observer can easily see that the scale of Jane Fonda's damage is miniscule compared to what George Bush has done.

    Whether it is treason is arguable. It all comes down to whether or not George Bush consciously acted to affect this outcome. Honestly, I don't know.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2006
  7. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I think there are much more reasonable charges to press against the administration without getting into the spectacle of trying someone under a law that would basically require proof of the administration levying war against the United States.

    Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
    For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.

    -John A. Stormer, None Dare Call It Treason, 1964
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2006
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Copuld you elaborate on "selling our future to Iranian oil interest".
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2006
  9. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Actively pursuing an "energy policy" that increases our (and the world's) dependence on Iran's primary source of income. Why won't the White House release even the participant list from VP Dick Cheney's Energy Commission meetings of 2002? Why is that a secret? Isn't it the business of the people of the United States? The White House has gone to great lengths in the courts to block this as a "no need to know" issue for the American voter.

    Do you think Iran's income is derived from it's fabulous movie industry?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2006
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A paragraph might be nice.

    It seems to me that every effort to develop our oil & natural gas resources to lessen our dependence on foreign oil has been fillibustered in the Senate, from offshore drilling to Anwar to the previous administration placing our largest coal reserves (in Utah) off limits, the Senate has blocked every effort to allievate the situation and offered no alternatives.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2005
  11. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    ALERT..!! ALERT..!!

    The Sdaniels thread-derailment-police have been notified of your actions right here and now. Stay where you are, the authorities are on their way to pick you up right now. Remain calm and comply with the law.
     
  12. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Bullcrap. You know exactly what she did and didn't do.

    I will gladly answer all your questions the moment I see you have had the courage to give a direct answer to mine.

    I am not an expert on "the law" but I am certainly an expert on what constitutes treason.

    And Nemmy-boy fails the QuiGon challenge..!! :rocker:
    I totally knew and expected he would..!! Too gutless to give a very simple opinion answer to a very simple opinion question..!! :rofl:
     
  13. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    $2 billion over 7 years to help develop alternative energy infrastructure. That works out to under $300 million (with an "M") per year.

    Let's see. Last year's Energy bill contained over $4 billion in tax benefits to the Oil industry and we're giving under $300 million towards helping develop a domestic, clean, efficient energy system. That's a more than 13-1 ratio by my count.

    I'm not letting Clinton off the hook here, either. However, the technology is here now and Clinton wasn't actively lining the pockets of the oil industry to the obscene levels we see today.

    The lead on the alternates is being taken by the private sector, pulling a very reluctant Washington along on this. US history shows us time and again, when our country was ascendant, it was no coincidence that we were investing in our infrastructure. The Inter-Continental Rialroads in the late 1800's, the Interstate Highway system under Eisenhower in the 1950's, etc. Look around you today. China is building a $22 billion bullet train system connecting Beijing, Shanghai and three other cities. We're gutting Amtrak. Brazil just declared itself energy independent using cane sugar ethanol. We're a hostage of OPEC and not signing off on Kyoto.

    Let me make myself perfectly clear here (paraphrasing good 'ol' Tricky Dick), ENERGY and the ENVIRONMENT are the number one and two long-term STRATEGIC national security issues facing our country. Terrorism is the number one short-term TACTICAL national security issue facing us.

    We must put full effort to all three. George Bush is putting a good faith effort to just the short-term TACTICAL one. Emphasizing the short-term at the expense of the long-term is a typical weakness of failed policies.
     
  14. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Oh my word, you guys are in truckloads of trouble..!! Once Sdaniels sees how grossly you've derailed my thread, you're in for quite the tongue lashing..!!

    Unless he's a complete hypocrite, that is.... nah, couldn't be that...
     
  15. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey


    I'm sorry. You're right. My sincere apologies.
     
  16. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    C'monn, Qui Gon, you're an intelligent guy but none of us are experts on treason unless we have a law degree and some experience with treason case law.
     
  17. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Come on, Pujo... If we extend your above reasoning, then none of us on this board can talk about anything. Are we not allowed to talk about legal issues if we don't have law degrees..? I suppose I can't say O.J. committed murder, because after all I don't have my law degree....? Furthermore, by your logic, there will be no more commentary on Enron by any individual who does not possess a law degree or at least a degree in business administration.

    Besides... they pretty made darn well sure in basic training that we all knew exactly what treason is and what it means (and what the consequences would be).
     
  18. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I'm not saying you (or any of us) can't talk about treason (or anything else), just that we're not experts. Heck, your basic training might even give you some professional experience, but it's still far from being an expert. Think of what someone has to prove to be sworn in as an expert witness...
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2006
  19. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    My friend, my friend, please don't misunderstand..!! In a political forum such as this, thread derailments happen all the time and I generally have no problem with them.

    I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of an individual that came down pretty hard on me for derailing a thread, and yet he is nowhere to be seen when others do the same.

    We may not exactly agree with each other, but please don't take my remarks as any sort of criticism directed at yourself for doing an activity I openly admit I have done myself on occassion. :D
     
  20. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    OK, but if the rule is we have to be an expert to give an opinion on something, then (like I said before) none of us could be contributing to this board anywhere near as much as we do.

    I am just asking an individual for his opinion on something and he cowardly refuses to give it. He certainly throws the word "treason" around an awful lot when describing Republicans, but becomes awfully silent when discussing a liberal. All of a sudden it's "gee, I don't if that was treason..." before running away to hide under the bed.

    And by the way... if you go out and commit treason and they bring you to trial, don't plan on using the defense that "well I'm not an expert so I really don't know what treason is so I really am not responsible for my actions..."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2005

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