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A Bills fan's take on "Cameragate"

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by shiva2999, Sep 19, 2007.

  1. shiva2999

    shiva2999 Banned

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    Hey guys, I'm shiva2999 from the #1 Bills forum on the web, www.buffalorange.com, and I'm issuing a personal invitation to any Pats fan that wants to come over and discuss football. I have notified the board that I've become a member here and invited all of my compatriots to come over here and do the same thing. How many will take their man pills and show up is yet to be seen.

    be that as it may, if you come over you will see that I have become a virtual pariah with my comrades because I have been defending Belichick and the Pats since this little piece of hilarity broke because you have been getting a raw deal.

    Most Bills fans hate me for this because they'd rather wallow in "Belicheat, Belisucks, Belijerk etc" type nonsense and accuse me of being, gasp, a "bad Bills fan".

    Big deal. They've been calling me that for years because I've been warning them for years about Rob Johnson/Drew Bledsoe/JP Losman and various other Bills stupidities.

    And since I've been right, they hate me even more.

    But so what.

    So even though I've spit out thousands of words trying to explain the Cameragate hilarity to them, they just refuse to get it so I thought maybe I could come over here and get some intelligent reactions.

    But before I start let me digress and give you my bona fides for what they're worth, just so you know where I'm coming from.

    I am an almost 50 year NFL fan, since I first watched Jimmy Brown play for Cleveland on my parents little B&W TV.

    I have also been a Bills fan since their inception in the AFL.

    I have watched thousands of pro football games in my life and every NFL championship since the late 50s, AFL championships since the early 60s and every Superbowl since #1.

    So I am old school (with a young outlook :D).

    And as such, although i have my favorite teams, I am not the new type of fan that insists you must hate and denigrate all your opponents.

    I admire class and talent and balls.

    I was a fan of Bart Starr's Packers, Bob Griese's Dolphins, Terry Bradshaw's steelers, Joe Montana's 49ers, Joe Gibb's Redskins and I am not ashamed to admit I am a fan of Bill Belichick and Tom Brady's Patriots.

    Plus, although I never worked in the football business, I have worked in the film and TV and advertising businesses for 30 years running film crews, a job that is analogous in a lot of ways with coaching a football team.

    So I know a little about how to run groups of 60 - 150 highly paid free agents to try and achieve a common goal.

    And in my opinion, the Patriots do it just right.

    That being done with, I thought I would post some of the most relevant things I've said about the situation, not because i want to toot my own horn, but because I think you'd enjoy what I had to say.

    but before I start, I'll outline my position so you know what my most important points are.

    1. Trying to crack another teams signals is a long and honored NFL tradition. Part of the game.

    2. When BB or whoever gave BB the idea of using video to compile a database of coaching signals was first proposed and implemented, it WASN'T against the rules, nor was it in anyway unethical. 31 other teams were free to do the same thing.

    3. The Patriots won 3 superbowls being smarter and better than everyone else and Eric Mangini was in like a dirty shirt. I don't see him offering to send his three rings back.

    4. Belichick MADE Mangini's career.

    5. The Jets hired Mangini specifically to get the lowdown on the Pats organization.

    6. Bob Kraft supported Roger Goodell in his career and promoted him for the Commissioner's job.

    7. When Mangini went to the Jets and started spreading the word that Belichick had a magic database that predicted every coaching call from now to the Rapture, the other teams **** their pants and started lobbying to get a rule stopping the Pats put in place.

    8. Goodell could have done the honorable thing and told the other teams to pound sand, but realizing that 31 outvote 1, decided to screw a man that had always been kind and supportive of him to placate the losers and whiners of the league.

    9. So Mangini betrayed Belichick and Goodell betrayed Kraft by inventing the no videotaping coaches rule. And Belichick and Kraft, not being the type of guys who let people screw with them, decided to fight back.

    10. Thus they decided to stage the little dog and pony show at the Meadowlands. They DID IT ON PURPOSE!

    Why?

    1. To make a point to Goodell and the league that they are willing to defend their intellectual property (coaching and scouting strategies). And this defense includes a willingness to compromise their own reputations to embarrass Goodell and the league. Who cares about tarnished rings. This is war.

    2. To ruin Mangini's career and destroy the Jets' season.

    3. To provide the BEST ever motivation for the team to fight like rabid wolverines to their 4th Superbowl title.

    And so far, everything has worked perfectly.

    Remember, when people that have been proved clever time and again do something that looks stupid to the general onlooker, you can be sure there is something else going on.

    And Belichick and Kraft are definitely not stupid guys.

    They trotted Estrella out into the open and had him prance around for a reason.

    They wanted to FORCE Mangini and the league to bust them.

    They wanted this battle, to draw this line in the sand.

    And everything that's happened in the meantime has only verified my initial opinion.

    Bill Belichick and Bob Kraft are not the cheaters here.

    Eric Mangini, Woody Johnson, Roger Goodell and the rest of the losers who couldn't compete on a level playing field were.

    Colluding to outlaw an advantage fairly won is cheating, pure and simple.

    That is why BB and Kraft decide to call everyone out.

    Anyway, here are the two things I posted first about the situation that has made me Public Enemy #1 in Buffalo. Others will follow.

    And good luck on Sunday. I'll be rooting for the Bills and praying for a miracle that proves JP Losman isn't Rob Johnson Jr.

    9/11/2007

    Newest Pats outrage - Belichick hires Kreskin and Criss Angel, NFL to investigate

    and... (split for length)
     
  2. shiva2999

    shiva2999 Banned

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    (following above)

    9/14/2007

    Is this cheating?

     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  3. PatsRI

    PatsRI PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Holy crap you have to learn the motto "less is more". That said, welcome.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  4. Captain Cool

    Captain Cool On the Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    There are a few rational people out there amongst the fans of the other 31 teams! Not many though. Your post was too long to read all the way through, I have ADD!:)
     
  5. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Howdy, neighbor. I live in western NY myself (from ME originally).

    I live amongst you as an OUTED Patriot fan and I've not really suffered much public humiliation this weak with all this, due in most part how pathetic the Bills are right now. All a basically say, when the ole "cheating" line come out is ask them to answer 1 question............ How much would you pay to watch just one game like the last couple we've been blessed to experience.

    In the end, most Bills fans would kill to have an organization like we do. Most of the feigned indignant reaction come more from envy then actual outrage at the transgression itself. I think that's true all over.

    I don't hate the Bills. I actually don't mind them at all. I feel bad for the long-suffering fans here. You don't deserve the product you been sold these past 10 years or so. Here's hoping you spank both the Dolphins and Jets this year.
     
  6. nowayback

    nowayback Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    shive2999...you are a better man then me!

    great post and i enjoyed reading every word.

    yes BB definately wanted to make a statement...a stand...the pats are not going to be pushed around anymore without a fight. changing rules everyear to suit the colts. maybe as a pats fan...being a bit paranoid..it seems the rule changes are directed at the pats always. BB new excatly what he was doing..i dont think he realized the national ourage that would enuse though...heck maybe he did...who knows.

    any chance of enticing schobel to take the weekend off? trip to the carribean?
    with the bills i never know what to expect..31-0 or 0-31 or like last years 1st game?
     
  7. BB_dynasty

    BB_dynasty On the Game Day Roster

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    I read a lot of that, made some good points. I will not respond with an essay, but it sounds like some could be true.
    I would take a super bowl over a 1st rounder. 500k is a little much i think for this. Isn't that the maximum fine allowed?
     
  8. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I don't think any of this was intended - but BOY, it's sure primed the Patriots to go after the Perfect Season record!

    I'd be interested in Shiva's take on Losman... kindof seemed like he had turned a corner last season... I know he thinks the offense has been too conseravative... I'm not sure who is right but I think the Bills, though they may have taken a step backwards in an effort to get better long term, are not as bad as their record or play this year.

    Good football insights from other team's fans are always welcome.
     
  9. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi In the Starting Line-Up

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    damn

    not sure I can concur with your assessment, but it certainly is plausible

    good read

    welcome to forum
     
  10. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Welcome aboard, will check out your site. Not sure I agree with the Pats pulling this on purpose - in fact, I'm sure I DISAGREE - but I love the idea, and I certainly agree with a lot of other stuff you wrote.
     
  11. ddell1

    ddell1 Practice Squad Player

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    Ya know I also pondered weather or not the patriots did this on purpose. My take was that BB was PO'ed that they threatened in a memo to take away league wide "advanced scouting metods" (i e cameras) but he noticed that everyone was still doing it. So he blatently did it in the first game of the season against a former assistant to get caught. After all if he cant do it anymore why should anyone else be able to. In his own way he was leveling the playing field. You bet your hind parts that if anyone remotely trys to do this, even with a cell phone against the Pats that they will get busted so fast it would make your head spin. I just think BB thought that the punishment would be softer.
     
  12. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    I live in downtown Buffalo (originally from Ct, an a lifelong Patriots fan). Go easy on Losman. Don't give up yet. I think he has the physical ability to succeed. And just because he has a high-pitched voice, that doesn't make him a bad guy. I think he can be THE one for the Bills.

    True story: I go see the Pats-Bills every year at Ralph's stadium. At the 31-0 Milloy game, I went with my brother (a lifelong Bills fan, he is 10 years younger than me and started following them during the early Joe Ferguson years). He had a Bills jersey on, and I wore my Patriots' Coates jersey.

    I received so much hell during that game while sitting in the end zone. I'm older, like to think I'm mature, and I teach. I do not like confrontation. Bills' fans were tussling my hair, slapping me hard on the back with every score. And I took it. A jerk in front of me was especially nasty. Kept getting in my face. My brother whispered to his girlfriend that though I was mild-mannered, hadn't been a fight in 20 odd years, that eventually my stack would blow and things would get nasty. Well, the guy kept coming at me, and in the 3rd quarter he laid his hands on me. I was 40 at the time, and I took that guy and sent him flying 5 rows down. Picked him up and heaved him. The guys below were pissed, obviously. Beer spilled. They called security on me. The yellow shirt guys came ready to toss me out and arrest me. Then a remarkable thing happened. All the Bills fans giving me hell for 3 quarters all around me without even a kind word in between, well they vouched for me. Told the security guys that the other guy started it. And they let me go. I got to enjoy the rest of the butt whupping.
     
  13. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave In the Starting Line-Up

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    Welcome.
    You know, your theory, to me, makes more sense than most of the other things I've heard.
    People seem to think it was a case of them playing games and knowing what play was coming next all the time.
    Teams change signs, and sometimes have "decoy" signalers
    I find ittough to believe that the Pats/BB would just have this video guy standing around being obvious.
    We may never know what this is really about, but I am pretty sure that there is more to this than meets the eye.
    As we know very well, BB works in mysterious ways.
     
  14. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nice post shiva,

    Question:
    you said
    "
    2. When BB or whoever gave BB the idea of using video to compile a database of coaching signals was first proposed and implemented, it WASN'T against the rules, nor was it in anyway unethical. 31 other teams were free to do the same thing."

    Do you know when the no sideline video rule was established?

    I have thought BB had a motive for putting that Cameraman in plain
    sight. To say he was baiting Mangini is a big step. I guess we can
    never know for sure ... maybe he'll put it in book after he retires.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  15. shiva2999

    shiva2999 Banned

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    something else to consider...

     
  16. jlb51

    jlb51 Rookie

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    Hey Pats fans Shiva has extended an invitation it's legit another member of the BuffaloRange right here.
     
  17. jlb51

    jlb51 Rookie

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    We all think sundays game will be much closer than the line would indicate any comments in regards to how you think the game might go?
     
  18. jlb51

    jlb51 Rookie

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    I still believe Losman can succeed he's gonna need some support but he has the skills needed to be successful.

    Unfortunately I believe the coaching staff lacks the confidence to completely turn him loose.

    There are those on our board that feel he has until game 5 to prove himself and if he fails they want Trent Edwards forced into the lineup.

    I believe this is wrong headed and will only ruin his chances of success at this level he is not ready.
     
  19. Krugman

    Krugman Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Welcome,Shiv299, but as Shakespeare said "Brevity is the soul of wit"....
     
  20. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I like your logic but didn't Goodell take over in August of 2006?
    If so how could the rule be voted on and established and be in effect
    so there could be memo to clarify it in Sept 2006?

    Have you seen the complete memo .... not just a paragraph from it?
     

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