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A big slap on the seniors's face from Democrat?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by NEPatriot, Jan 17, 2010.

  1. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    http://www.federalnewsradio.com/index.php?nid=35&sid=1837357

    Democrats told every senior that they would not receive a raise BUT they gave themselves a big raise. Nicely done!

    It's what obama meant when he said we got to 'sacrifice'.
     
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When they crowned Pelosi and made her Speaker then when Racism reared it's ugly head and they elected their Sweet Talking Messiah I predicted they would self destruct and completely destroy the Democratic Party with their new found power, they can't help themselves, they all have "Little Dictator Minds" they are vicious lying power mad bastards.

    They are devouring themselves faster than I thought they would, the Grinning Pelosi Gang are most disgusting group of politicians this country has ever seen, they make Richard Nixon look like God.
     
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    No-one paid by the government except active military should be getting a raise, including social security recipients. Inflation is near zero and we're broke. Sorry.
     
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The military did get a raise, not sure that this is about raises though..it is about benefits..
     
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Sure it's about raises :

    "Secondly, in the bill is a two percent pay raise for cost of living adjustment for federal employees"
     
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You are right, somehow missed that... FYI the military got a 3.4% raise this year..

    Military Money, military pay, pay charts - Military Times
     
  7. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand In the Starting Line-Up

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    #37 Jersey

    The military works hard they deserve it, what exactly is your problem?

    Tech salaries in the military are far below their federal counterparts.
     
  8. PatsFanInVa

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    Try to follow along at home, PFIEL...

    Original complaint: seniors did not get a COLA because wage inflation was negative in 2009. Feds did get a COLA for the same period of time.

    The military also got a larger COLA than their civilian counterparts.

    Nothing against the military here, but frankly, if you have complaints about benefits or pay, that's an enormous target. Even if you say at every turn what good, honorable, beyond-reproach work, character, and excellence universally exist throughout the armed forces, did they really improve that excellence of character over their civilian counterparts by the roughly 70% differential we see here, just in the last year?

    If there was negative wage growth in 09, it is a fair question why the Feds got a 2% raise. But if that is a fair question, it is only a fairer question why the military got a much larger raise.

    Do you grasp the principles at work here?

    PFnV
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2010
  9. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand In the Starting Line-Up

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    #37 Jersey

    Just the response I expected from a hack unionized federal employee.

    Most federal workers are already overpaid and the military is severely underpaid. 1.4% doesn't put a dent in the disparity that already exists.

    Your and D-D-Daryl's disgust towards the real workers on the federal books is duly noted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2010
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nice comments, but as pointed out previously the military got a 3.4% raise..

    The tech salaries are lower, but the benefits are much greater, and many are entry level.. see military legacy costs..

    I thought ad hominen attacks were no longer allowed, maybe our former right wing mod is exempt.
     
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What does the avg military guy make compared to the avg Fed employee. I have a pretty good idea, wonder if you do.

    Should the avg GI get paid more than the avg bureaucrat given the dangers and hardship?

    I KNOW the answer to that ... Hell Yeah.
     
  12. DarrylS

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    How about the benefits??

    If you did this you could eliminate all the housing and post privileges.. eliminate the early retirement, eliminate the reduced rate golf courses, and eliminate the free family medical for life... that would even the playing field.

    This stuff sounds all well and good, but in reality it makes little sense.. this from the people who often parrot the term fiscal responsibility..

    The reality is that most entry level positions pay less than more senior positions, and to say that this person is worth more than this person is pure folly.. here is an example, my nephew works for the NRC and reviews applications for the expansion of nuclear power plants and gets paid well.. should he get paid the same amount of a corporal in the army??? The reality is that you get paid commensurate with your experience and education, and as long as wars are fought the grunts on the low end are the ones who make the least and do the most..

    The more complicated answer is to avoid wars at all cost... know quite a few military folks,particularly navy corpsmen and they do not do a lot of complaining about their salaries.. remember one guy who told me he was on duty in Fallujah for something like 36 hours, and he commented how what he did was expected... in fact was trying to get into Marine Recon school..
     
  13. PatsFanInVa

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    The ones going through the dangers, in the military, can make well into the six figures, AND have their housing paid for, in the enlisted ranks. Long story short: I'm in my late 40s, I've done pretty well as a "beaurocrat"... and a lot of young kids over there are making more than me (which is fine; I am juxtapositioning the phase in life/"attainment", not the perils of my duty). A friend of my stepson was over to my house a couple of weeks ago, getting ready to go to Afghanistan -- he was choosing to sign up to be shipped out. He wasn't gung-ho about "getting some," and he wasn't rah-rah-sis-boom-bah about making the world safe for democracy. He was telling me how good the deal was. He'd be making in the high 90s, and other people he knew would be making in the six figures, all enlisted men, because of the combat pay. He lives in a nicer house than I do, he has a shorter commute than I do, and he probably has more disposable income than I do... and now he's about to double that.

    Do I begrudge it to him? Hell no. If old men like me can send young men like him to fight in a war, sure, we can pay him what old men like me make.

    The housing difference is huge. Your needs are much better met in the military than as a civilian, just by virtue of the fact that as a civvy, you are on your own. Believe me, the Dept of Health and Human Services does not house its employees; it's too busy housing rank-and-file Americans. The military does.

    But I see I've taken the bait.

    Again, the difference between the apples (feds) and oranges (military guys) is one thing. There were perks and bennies you got on the military side in 2008 as well.

    But for 2009, the change in relative position, for the military, was 170% what it was for a Fed; and as the OP points out, that 2% bump the feds got is compared with a 0% bump for senior citizen COLAs.

    My questions are these:

    1) YEAR-OVER-YEAR, SINCE 2008, how did the military incur 170% the cost of living needs of feds, particularly when their pay far exceeds the pay of feds when they are actually in combat situations?

    2) IF it's a slap in the face to seniors that feds got a 2% COLA and they got 0%, how is it not a "slap in the face" that the military got 3.4%?

    3) While we're on the subject -- in almost every year there IS a COLA for social security. Then why not for minimum wage? Why do we not call it a "slap in the face" to working men and women, that we say the minimum wage is not supposed to keep pace with inflation???

    You guys need to realize that we are all constantly trying to salve our consciences by reflexively getting our dander up about any question that goes to military pay.

    I can't get too pissed about it, as you say, when I think about the brave kid in the combat situation... but lumped in there are the slouches hoping to pull some kind of boring guard duty, without it being punctuated by moments of mortal terror, to borrow the old expression. Sure, they are subject to such moments wherever they serve. So are many civilian workers though, and the same people clamoring for more and more perks without questions for the military, simultaneously fight to curtail the pensions of (for example) firefighters and cops.

    And again my real point is that when we open these cans of worms, it probably behooves us to be prepared for good arguments on their own merits. One cannot simply wave a magic flag and make such questions go away because we appreciate what the military does. The principal that a COLA to person X without a COLA to person Y is unfair, cannot simply be invalidated when applied to a "person Y" who you think is a good person Y. Leaving aside the fact that you do not know person Y (who you alternately seek to villify or laud, depending on his service,) a COLA has to do with keeping pace with inflation.

    If your complaint is that we tell seniors there is no inflation, then say there is 2% inflation for Feds, well, so far so good, on your part. The overall point is not a bad one (after factoring in any federal payments to seniors meant to blunt the blow [I believe there was one of those in the news lately.]) But you cannot make this complaint, and then say that the cost of living indeed must have gone up 3.4% for military people, because they are good people.

    PFnV
     
  14. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    Who will take care of seniors on main street when Obama doesn't????
     

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