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87 Million uninsured americans

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Holy Diver, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    Last edited: Mar 4, 2009
  2. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Kick ass source there, buddy. Good stuff :rolleyes:
  3. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    I just linked the Reuters article....
  4. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    As expected, your subejct line is completely incorrect. Argue that the numbers are too high all you want but when you look at those really uninsured vs. those temporarily uninsured it gets down to the normal numbers we are aware of. The discussion about whether that's real or not (when discounting illegals and those who decline insurance, etc) is interesting to discuss but your subject is crap.
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Over 2 years. C'mon dude. This is the headline.

    In past 2 years, 87 million in U.S. went uninsured

    Divide by two, and factor in 20 million illegals, and then start talking about the issue of the uninsured. Keep in mind I pay through the nose for HI, and do think that the costs need to be addressed. I don't want the gubmit taking over, cuz I know first hand what that type of care is like, and I'll pass thank you.
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    All I care about is US citizens being insured. Who is counting illegals and why? They dont count as far being insured or uninsured. You make the choice to come here illegally, then of course you don't get health insurance.

    Are they actually being counted in the 87 million? If so, that's just ridiculous!
  7. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    over the past two years, 87 million people from all developed nations on earth were uninsured. 100% of those were Americans.

    is that a better way to look at the stats?
  8. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    It's still crap. When you subtract the illegals and the young adults who choose not to get insurance and the kids who are uninsured but get needed health care anyway it's a small number.

    Then you look at how many people have significant issues due to having no insurance. I'm 42 and would have more money if I'd always been uninsured and would be just as healthy. I'd love to know how many people are affected in a life/death way by lack of insurance. I also don't buy the low quality of care stats as we are one of the least healthy countries from a lifestyle standpoint.

    There's a lot of stats skewing the numbers - I do know one thing : if I were to get seriously ill today I'd prefer to be in this country than any other country.
  9. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    There are no illegals counted in those statistics. The #s are poised to grow at the rate of about...600,000 a month because of unemployment COBRA benefits expiring. We lost another 650,000+ jobs in February.

    Cost? we rank 1st on Earth

    Care? we rank 37th in the world

    The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

    ther are 36 other countries I'D rather be in.
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    It's the way you look at them, which is still wrong regardless of how they're spun. Take out the tens of millions of illegals, before you say anything at all, since the numbers include illegals, WHO ARE NOT AMERICANS.

    Look, I'm all ears when it comes to health care. The costs are ridiculous IMO, as it costs this office $4,000 a month for 4 employees. Something has to be done. I just think the idea of having the gubmit take it over, or simply pay the bill, is retahdid. Not only will quality suffer, but nothing will be done to fix the real problem, which is exhorbent costs. People in this country are zombified to the point where which they think something costs less, if someone else pays for it. WRONG. It still costs the same no matter what. In most cases, it'll end up costing more, since there's an added layer of beaurocracy that has to be created to collect the money, to make the payments. Something has to be done though.
  11. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    no....ILLEGALS are not Americans.

    thats what makes them ILLEGAL


    Of 262 million AMERICANS under 65, 33 percent were uninsured at some point during those two years, according to the report. This included 60.1 million adults and 26.6 million children and teens up to age 18, according to the report.

    Among those uninsured, 75 percent had no coverage for at least six months and 60 percent for at least nine months, according to the report based on survey data from the U.S. Census Bureau and Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality.

    About 52 percent of individuals and families with incomes between the official poverty line and twice the poverty line -- $21,200 to $42,400 of annual income for a family of four -- were uninsured at some point during 2007 and 2008.

    The government's most recent official estimate, based on Census Bureau figures, put the number of uninsured at 45.7 million in 2007. But that figure included only those who had no coverage for the entire year.


    talk about skewing......man.....
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2009
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If you'd really prefer to be in those countries, more power to you. I know a few Canadians and a bunch of British relatives, including a cancer specialist, and I can tell you for sure they wouldn't prefer to be there. They would prefer to be here. Cancer drugs that are expensive here and unattainable there due to cost. And, yes, they really do have long waits for things. Really.
  13. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    the man sitting right next to be is from the UK...his quote:

    "American Healthcare is a joke."



    any nation that denies its citizends the right to life is indeed a joke.


    sad that some drugs may help, but might be unavailable due to cost, but everyone is insured. EVERYONE.


    ================================================================================

    http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk...ecision-on-kidney-cancer-drugs-have-your-say/

    NICE decision on kidney cancer drugs - have your say
    This morning, the UK’s drug guidance body, NICE, announced its preliminary decision on whether the NHS should use four new cancer drugs - bevacizumab, sorafenib, sunitinib and temsirolimus - to treat people with kidney cancer that has spread (‘metastatic renal cell carcinoma’).

    Despite clinical evidence that these drugs can actually help, NICE has decided that they’re too expensive. In essence, NICE doesn’t think that these four drugs are value-for-money for the NHS.

    We’re very disappointed with this decision, and we feel it raises fundamental questions about how NICE evaluates cancer drugs, particularly for cancers that only affect a relatively small number of people.
    ===================================================================================

    if you live in the UK, you can pay for these drugs out of pocket. just like you have to pay for it here, if your insurer doesn't cover it.


    you act like every insured american never gets denied a claim by an insurer. Thats false.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2009
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Good for him, I don't know what his situation or experience is. But I do know the opinion of a bunch of people with a lifetime of British healthcare. I know the opinion of a cancer specialist. I know that a top cancer drug isn't available over there. I know I would have had a permanent tooth extracted - at age 12 - had I stayed in England - when, instead a root canal saved the tooth. That's a tiny little bit of knowledge that I have but it is real. I'm not sure how cheap it is either with all the tax money that goes to it.
  15. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    maybe you should ask all of the specialists you know how cheap it is.....

    I'll tell you this, its cheaper than what we offer.

    oh wait....here:


    Snapshots: Health Care Spending in the United States and OECD Countries - Kaiser Family Foundation
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2009
  16. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Healthcare is not the right to life. Denying someone the right to life would be an act which causes them to die when they wouldn't have through natural causes. Additionally, "healthcare" and "life" are not the same thing. Although I would be against it, I can see an argument for governmental support of life saving operations. There's a lot of healthcare which is not life threatening. Most of it. Calling healthcare a "right to life" issue is a total joke.
  17. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    So do you want cheap or good ? You say it's neither. Fine. I disagree and say it's good. No it's not cheap. Partly due to crazy malpractice insurance. Partly because we subsidize other countries with cheap drugs that we shouldn't be subsidizing. And partly because we get better care, as I have seen personally.
  18. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    You obviously haven't seen the film at all. Especially the insurance woman testifying to Congress.

    YOu are, without a doubt, the most uncaring, heartless human being on this forum...
  19. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey


    we will not agree on that, ever.

    Healthcare is denied in many cases involving life and death in the US due to cost to the insurer. Pre-existing conditions etc.

    YouTube - SICKO CLIP Linda Pino admits denying Health Care & Man Dies

    here is congressional testimony by Linda Pino, you may not have heard. It also includes NIxon's whitehouse tapes discussing Kaiser ....



    are you being paid by an insurer to have your opinion?
  20. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow people are forgetfull in this forum. We've been through those rankings 100 times in here. What is it with rankings, health index's, and polls that people in here treat as gospel. Are people that soft, or do they simply not care what something actually says, so long as it supports their own agenda driven position? Look at how the WHO ranked the countries on that list. It has nothing to do with quality of care. I highly doubt you'd prefer to be in Italy (or Marocco!), when you're gravely ill, where your family has to change your bedpan, and your sheets. Seriously, good luck to you. Cuz when you're scheduled for Chemo, and the machine breaks down, it'll be months before it's operational again, which could mean you'll never be.


    This article will give you a glimpse of what English care is like.

    The New York Times > Log In

    I can say that France was considered to be a good model for universal coverage, as they use a mix of private, and federal funding for citizens. However, they've run into (see Massachusetts) significant problems with cost overruns, as the projections for what their program would cost, has kinda spiraled out of control.

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