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74% of Americans don't believe the Recession is over

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    And of course, they're right!

    Finally, American intellect has improved to the point when we know that we're being lied to. I'm proud of this 74%!!!

    Recession not over, public says

    "Washington (CNN) -- Economic experts may believe the recession is over, but try telling that to the public.

    Seventy-four percent of Americans believe the economy is still in a recession, according to a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll. Only 25 percent think the downturn is over."


    Recession not over, public says - CNN.com
  2. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Something about John Kerry and uninformed voters. It's been over for more than a year, there just hasn't been huge growth.
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    It isn't over...not by a LONG shot Strudel.

    They announced it was over thinking Americans would be stupid enough to react and start spending.

    My suggestion is, even if you "have it, don't spend it". Save it, cuz you're gonna need it someday.

    DON'T SPEND
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
  4. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Oh God. The facts entirely disagree with you. By definition, the recession is over and there's no question about it unless you've got a white whale you're trying to kill.

    And not because the economy stopped shrinking? Really?

    Ahh, there's that white whale. And what about the paradox of thrift?
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    You're going to get different opinions on what over means. There's the technical aspect where people will point to consecutive quarter growth, even though anemic, and say it's over. Then you'll get the people in this poll, who aren't using any technical data, and are instead applying their real life experiences to say it's still ongoing. Who's right, who's wrong? By definition, the data people are correct. In reality, the people are. All this poll says to me, is that people are still feeling the pinch. That's not surprising at all.
  6. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    No, they're not.

    Yes, they are.
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you don't have a job you are in a depression. The economic policies of the administration have crushed job creation.


    Still no budget from congress and business has no idea of what taxes will be as votes on taxes have ben put of till after the election.
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    The ONLY reason the data falsely show some improvement is due to ARTIFICIALLY inflating our economy with stimulus money which our tax dollars paid for.

    What got this economy to the point where it crashed was due to ARTIFICIALLY inflating it via lax lending standards supported by our gov't.

    If ARTIFICIALLY inflating our economy got us into this mess, then ARTIFICIALLY inflating again won't/can't fix the problem.

    Therefore, the problem STILL remains and we are in recession regardless of bogus numbers reflected in the data.

    It like getting a loan to show your books appear balanced. It's all an illusion. Our economy is not stable enough to say we're in recovery.

    Question: If we stay where we are today for the next 5 years, will we be in recovery?
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
  9. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Doesn't make one whit of difference. The losses have stopped. It's not like government hasn't stepped in to help stop recessions before.

    No, we are not. That's just a simple fact unless the numbers take a dive again. What is it with people and simple facts?

    We're not talking about recovery, we're talking about recession.

    A very, very slow one. One that wouldn't do us much good thanks to the depth of the recession. But things haven't flattened out, at least.
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    FYI...if we're not in recession, then we must be in RECOVERY. That's the way economics works Strud. We're either in boom or bust...recession or recovery.

    So YES, we are in fact discussing recovery.
  11. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    No, we're talking about the perception of the meaning of recession. Further, you can be in a period of stagnation where you have neither recession nor growth/recovery.
  12. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    As an economist, stagnation is just another word for continuation of recession. If you go down...way down and then stagnate, you're referring to a U-shaped recession.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
  13. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Not according to wiki and everything I've ever heard or understood about the definition of recession. Stagnation is separate from recession which is separate from growth.
  14. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    The economic term "recession" means some # (I forget how many -- almost certainly 2 or 3) of consecutive quarters of GDP declines.

    We could be out of a "recession" in economic terms, yet not be in recovery. (I don't think there's an economic term "recovery," but I could be wrong.)
  15. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    If our economy is not in recession, then there has to be a name what period we are now in. Recovery always follows a recession. Otherwise, we can't be out of the recession.

    I think they're calling it "a period of slow growth".

    The National Bureau of Economic Reserch (NBER) is the independent bureau that makes decisions as to what economic conditions are. I guess we should just wait to see what they'll call the period from Jan. 2009 through today (and moving forward).

    Should be interesting to say the least...
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
  16. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Yes you can, with stagnation. Recession just means continual decline over 2 or 3 months. You can bottom out and stagnate and not be in recession and not in recovery. That scenario is not too far from where we are right now. Slow growth and stagnation are the same thing.
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    We're getting into semantics now, but I think that the problem is that you're mixing up terms -- unless "recovery" is a defined term, which I don't think it is.

    Because recession is a defined term, we could have alternating quarters of GDP rise and decline yet not be in a "recession." But I don't think anybody woul argue that's a recovery, either.
  18. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    The definition's faulty in that it doesn't account for population growth. Of course all previous economic downturns were judged this way since its inception, so changing it now feels like moving the goalposts.

    But a little thing like that sure won't stop pubbies and the so called 'moderates' from scoring some political points.
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    IIRC, and I might not be, didn't the government just last year, decide that it could go back in history, and change the determinations of past quarterly growth? I remember them announcing something about being able to go back and alter what the GDP figures were, at different points in time. Again, I might be off here.
  20. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    You're right RW...our gov't does in fact go back and "adjust" various economic benchmarks all the time.

    As a matter of fact, so does the NBER (the bureau that determines when recessions begin & end).

    Theoretically, the facts "could" change and so could the periods of this recession. Let's say this "recession" stagnates another 5 years...then the NBER could end up calling this a DEPRESSION. But they wouldn't do that until they were sure our economy was back on track.

    But they don't want to do that now due to the fear it would cause in the general public. My own opinion is that I don't believe in being careful with the public. I believe we ALWAYS should be told straight-up what the reality is.

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