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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Jun 22, 2012.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Obviously, one of the players below could make a strong case for a roster spot, or there could be an injury to one of the top 7. However, for now, I am pretty satisfied with

    CB: McCourty, Arrington, Dowling, Moore, Dennard
    S: Chung, Gregory, Wilson, Ihedigbo

    DB'S ON THE OUTSIDE LOOK IN
    --------------------------------------
    Allen
    Barrett
    Brown
    Cole
    Ebner
    Williams
    Ventrone
  2. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think 3 of each are locks:
    McCourty, Dowling, Arrington
    Chung, Gregory, Wilson

    I think Moore, Dennard, Allen, Cole are in a battle for one or 2 spots and there is no distinct favorite(s) among that group. I think separating Moore and Dennard is more speculation than reality that they have any leg up.
    At safety, Id say the same for Ihedigbo, Barrett, and even Ebner, especially if the corner # is 5.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
  3. TyronePoole

    TyronePoole Banned

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    Call me crazy but I'd much rather roll the dice as the season goes along on a Barrett or even Ebner (if he's actually training to be a safety?) and see how it goes than go with a thoroughly mediocre Ihedigbo who has a very low ceiling. In an emergency situation I feel like the Ihedigbos of the world would be available anyway.
  4. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with your locks. I am just not as reticent as you to picks the favorites at this point in time. Others will have different opinions. Others have no interest in guessing at this point.

    I agree that the number of corners could be 4 or 5. Therefore, it might useful to consider that the players you list at corner are competing for one roster spot, the backup corner position.

    I agree that Ihedigbo and Barrett are competing for the #4S/ST stud position. I don't see Ebner getting THAT roster spot.

    Once the 2 positions above are filled, we have all we need for position players, except in the case of emergency players in case of 2 injuries. We would have 4 corners and 4 safeties.

    CHOICES AFTER WE HAVE OUR 8 DEFENSIVE BACKS
    Obviously the choice of #4 CB could influence the choices below. Either of the potential #4 safeties could be a potential #9 DB as a STer.

    We are likely to have 1-2 addition DB/ST roster spots available. Also, one of these 1-2 positions could be used on a developmental player.

    If we are nervous enough about our 8, we might keep a vet who can be both an emergency corner and an emergency safety.
    If Belichick is confident with our ST's, I could see him making this choice.

    SUMMARY
    6 locks as noted
    2 position roster spots with contenders noted
    1-2 roster spots available for those who best fill needs not fully addressed


  5. Kay Mad

    Kay Mad Rookie

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    I don't know who'de I exclude but
    I'm rooting for Ventrone to make this team.


    After last year..
    Who's mentally tougher ?
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
  6. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How is Barrett a roll of the dice? He had his shot and he proved to be both terrible AND injury prone.
  7. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If Belichick thinks 1/10 as highly of Ebner as his college coaches, then he's a lock.
  8. TyronePoole

    TyronePoole Banned

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    you don't think it's risky to have a terrible and injury prone player on the roster? :D

    I meant to say side with more of the young guys that are more unknown than a "proven" mediocre player.

    Barrett was probably a poor example...
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
  9. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I should clarify re:Ebner.
    If he makes the team as a special teamer who can also play safety and a corner makes the team who can play safety, then we may only keep 3 safeties, making Ebner effectively the 4th safety but 99% a special teamers.
  10. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    It will be a series of interesting battles, not doubt, but I look at it this way.

    Of course this is based on the assumption that the team will keep 9 DBs (4 CB's 4 S's 1 CB/S hybrid) However given the passing nature of the league and the value of DBs to ST's, no one should be shocked if they keep 10

    The "locks": (subject to injury)

    CB: McCourty, Arrington, Dowling

    S: Chung, Gregory, Wilson

    The "battles"

    Allen vs Moore for the hybrid CB/S role

    Cole vs Allen vs Moore for the 4th CB role

    Barrett vs Ihedigbu for the 4th S role (SS)

    The "Realities"

    Ebner to the PS. He needs at least that to learn the DB craft. 3 snaps in college isn't gonna do it.

    Brown to the unemployment line.

    Ventrone and Williams are camp bodies and IF they are lucky will make it to the PS.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
  11. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Are you giving no chance to Dennard?
  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1) If we have 4 position corners and four position safeties, I don't think that we need a hybrid CB/S. We need a STer. I think that this player is likely to be an emergency corner, since I don't see a lot of our safeties playing corner. The 9th position could also be used for a developmental player.

    2) Dennard should have a shot at 4th corner or 9th db positions.

    3) I would not be at all shocked to see us keep 10. For example, if Cole cannot win one of the 9 positions, he could make the squad as a gunner.

  13. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that both the 9th and 10th DB are competing against players across many positons based on special teams value. That can include LB, TE, WR, RB and maybe DE.
  14. Ron Sellers

    Ron Sellers Rookie

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    Apologies in advance as I commented previously in a similar thread, but here is my opinion. Barring of course the unforeseen injury, these six players are in:

    CB: Dowling, McCourty, Arrington
    S: Chung, Gregory, Wilson

    Most likely Sterling Moore is also in at CB, but I'll list him separately since he is less of a 'lock' than the others listed above.

    That leaves what appears to be roster battles for three defensive backs. Perhaps the Pats will look at it as three specific positions and skills.

    CB#5: Alfonzo Dennard vs Will Allen
    S#4: Josh Barrett vs Sergio Brown vs Dennard/Allen
    Special Team Specialist Who Happens to be a Defensive Back: Marquice Cole vs James Ihedigbo vs Sergio Brown vs Nate Ebner vs Malcolm Williams vs Ross Ventrone


    My way-too-early-guess? Dennard, a player not on the roster right now, and Cole. ... though I reserve the right to change my way too early roster guess tomorrow.
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Are you suggesting that we might keep only 8 defensive backs? This seems very unlikely, especailly given how many question marks we have (players returning from IR, rookies, and free agents). I'm fine with all the new blood, but I think it argues for more rather than fewer defensive backs.

    I agree that the 10th defensive back is really one of those players competing with players of many positions for the last 3 roster spots. BTW, I would include OL in your list.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We have done so before and if you eliminate the guys who are almost exclusively s/ts we have done it often.
    I'm saying 8 plus special teamers but special teamers often are DBs.
  17. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You are probably right on OL, only because the number we keep is flexible based on the rest of the roster, but I was trying to limit it to special teams.
    You could also include any positions where a developmental player who won't help this year (such as when Price was kept) that would subtract a spot elsewhere, but I was narrowing it to the guys who play on special teams. The OL who are active will be on s/ts but we won't activate an OL just to play s/ts.
  18. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is a HUGE difference if the 2 special teamers are Cole and Ihedigbo rather than players of other positions. All I am suggesting is that is extremely likely than one will be a defensive back this year.

  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    fair enough

    You're correct. I widened the competition to all those competing for the final 3 roster spots. In a sense there are as many as 6, but we are pretty set on some.

    2 QB
    4 RB
    5 WR (including Slater)
    3 TE
    8 OL

    6 DL
    8 LB
    8 DB

    3 SPEC

    6 TBD

    BTW, I think that Solder was the 3rd TE position in 2011.

    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
  20. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He could get the #46/ST semi-stud position, though. ;)
  21. Armchair Quarterback

    Armchair Quarterback Rookie

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    The way I see it:

    CB: McCourty, Arrington. Dowling, Dennard, Moore
    S: Chung, Wilson, Gregory, Allen

    Ebner, Williams, Ihedigbo, Cole - battling for maybe one ST spot

    Barrett, Ventrone, Brown - not on 53
  22. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yup, those are minimums. It helps if you look at it that way, and throw everyone else into the 6.
    In the end the LB who can cover kicks, but wont play may beat out the OG who is a better player, but not needed because the 8 OL are versatile enough that the 9th is dispensible for example.
  23. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    No just an error of omission. You can just add him to the fight to be the 4th or 5th CB CB and/or the CB/S hybrid fight.
  24. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    MG, I think I wasn't clear on what I meant by a CB/S hybrid. My guess is that BB is looking for more coverage skills out of his "safeties". I believe he sees defenses evolving to meet the great threat of the NFL passing game and the skill set line between safeties and CB's is blurring. Thus I think what BB is looking for in his DB's this season are players who have CB coverage skills, but who can make plays with the ball in front of them as well. That would describe guys like Allen, Gregory, Wilson, Dennard and Moore as well as McCourty in a pinch. I think there is only going to be room for one strong safety type on the roster and that will be a battle between Barrett and Ihedigbu
  25. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Agreed these guys are locks




    I am thinking we keep 10 DB's this year. I could see 6 CB and 4 S as the split due to the number of nickle and dim sub packages we will run during the year.

    If they move Allen to S I can see Moore, Dennard being on the roster and Cole fighting Ihedigbo fighting for the last DB/ST slot.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
  26. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think I would go with those 9 unless Allen proves that he's better at S than Ihedigbo, as it's been reported he's been playing that position in camp.

    Ventrone, Williams, Brown, Barrett--->Trash can.

    Cole could make it as a #10 ST Gunner.

    I love Ebner and I'm rooting for him, but is a guy who really didn't even play football in college going to make an NFL 53, let alone the Patriots 53?
  27. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Historically, we have only kept 4 corners other than guys who are pretty exclusively s/ters.

    The 5th corner really has nowhere to play, but for as an injury sub.
    I know its common thought that since its more of a passing league, and we play a lot of sub, that more is better at corner, but in reality while we use the 3rd corner a lot the 4th is used sparingly, the 5th not at all and the 6th would take 2 injuries to be active.
  28. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How many times have we had injured CBs over the past few years?
  29. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We have had some. I am just pointing out the logic that appears to be in place in making roster decisions. If you disagree, I guess you have to take that up with BB.
  30. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    Do you all think a vet gets the nod over an equally skilled 5rnd+ guy who still has PS eligibility?

    My assumption would be that anybody 5/6/7/UDFA (except Dennard) would have a good chance to survive to the PS and not get taken on waiver wire. So that would mean if they don't show themselves clearly better than the vet - or at least with way too much upsdie to risk losing; that BB would chance losing the high rounder newbies.

    But of course last year the other teams feasted on our cuts. some didnt work out much for those teams, but the players didnt last long on the waiver wire. so
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