7/27 - practus interuptus

[Ring 6]

Wrong! You think most people want to be fat? Do you realize there are many many people that would
love to exercise but they have no energy! Yet they eat and eat all those high calories foods trying to
get energy. Some feel good for a little while and others still feel hungry after a big mac with fries and high sugar drink. They feel starved because they have a metabolic pathway disruption.

One such disruption could be body cells falsely indicating they do not need more energy when they do so the over insulin production causes that energy to be stored as white fat. You should read the two books I mentioned above.

People make choices in life. No one who has a bad result is happy with the bad result, yet they make the choices for whatever reason.
Part of the problem with our society is people want to find something else to blame except themselves for their problems. At my age, I have to be very careful with my weight, but I do. I get tired, but I exercise anyway. I would love to eat until I'm full, but I know I can't.
No one with a weight problem should be eating a BigMac with fries and a diet soda to feel starved after, they should be eating larger quantities of healthy food. Unless of course, they do not want to do that. In essence they do 'want to be fat' because they do not want to make the sacrifices that lead to not being overweight.
To tell me that not being full after downing a McDonalds dinner is a metabolic issue is like saying I don't know why I have all these leaves in my yard because I don't recognize the tree.

Again, there surely are people with medical issues, but that is rare, and you don't help those who overeat by enabling them with the idea they are destined to be overweight. Especially since it is an emotional issue, and many overweight people are known to binge when they are depressed about their weight.

 

[DocHoliday]

He might have meant "weak" spleen, and there are plenty of herbs and foods which can help with that.

Also, how can pharmaceutical companies make money on a naturally occurring plant?

They don't. The insurance company though will refuse to pay for it because a cheaper naturally occurring source exists.

By the way, there is no such thing as a weak spleen either.

 

[OhExaulted1]

My doctor used to wear a shirt that said "Eat right, stay fit, die anyway". No lie. Last time I went to see him he was wearing it.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Cool dude. Here in York.

 

[Ring 6]

I have no idea how this thread got to being about weight loss. But I might as well throw in my opinion here. In my opinion portion control is the most important thing coupled with eating good stuff. I'm not talking about only eating salads and ultra healthy stuff. Just keep away from eating fast food every week. I eat pasta almost every day with various sauces. But I only eat 350 grams.

The second thing is working out. I started going to the gym 4-5 times a week. But I lost weight even if I wasn't working out.

By doing this I have lost 58lbs. I have followed no funky diet methods where you only eat soup or stuff like that. I've only started working out more, but most importantly I started controling my portions to 350g.

I think the point actually is DO SOMETHING. I like the low carb method because it allows me to eat the foods I like the most and really not limit quantities. I lose about 30 lbs in 30 days doing that. Problem is the effects level off, and then (over a long period of time usually) if you don't replace it with something else you gain it back.
The real key isn't short term loss, but long term, and to do that you have to change habits.
Here is a silly example.
My office used to have a candy machine and it was taken away.
I used to get a candy bar every day, sometimes 2. I am 100% certain that having it or not was not a function of hunger. I would have eaten the same food the rest of the day whether I had it or not.
A candy bar has roughly 200 calaories, and 3500 calories equals a pound. In a year, 250 work days, 250 candy bars is 50,000 calories. Had they taken the candy machine away a year earlier, I would weigh 15 lbs less. If you apply that thinking to your eating habits, by choosing salad instead of potatoes, using portion control as you say, or skipping desert, OVER TIME you will end up consistently at a better weight.

 

[DocHoliday]

So-called "modern", or "western" medicine has been discovering that some of what it used to laugh off is, in fact right, and that some of what it "knows", it doesn't. This isn't new, and it's not likely to stop happening any time soon. The arrogance of the American medical profession is often badly misplaced.

If you want to learn about some quackery from western medicine, just ask all those Americans who had ulcers back when western science was completely dropping the ball on them.

Hell, have some real fun. Look at the history of idiocy regarding dietary recommendations. They're still screwing that up to this day.

Yes, because Western medicine learned a few things in Eastern medicine wasn't snake oil makes Western medicine arrogant, inadequate, and a source of idiocy.

Western medicine learns and adapts and improves. If something in Eastern medicine works, Western medicine will happily use it, study it, and make it 'medicine'. When it realizes diet recommendations suck they change and improve. A history of being wrong in science is guaranteed until you find the real answer. That's the nature of science and not something you can knock.

You're fixating on Western medicine's historical mistakes and glorifying the vanishingly few aspects of herbal medicine worth its salt today. It's a conspiracy theory mindset. I wonder if you will seek Eastern medicine next time you face a real medical emergency.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

A candy bar has roughly 200 calaories, and 3500 calories equals a pound. In a year, 250 work days, 250 candy bars is 50,000 calories. Had they taken the candy machine away a year earlier, I would weigh 15 lbs less.

(1) You at least had to get up and go get the candy bar, which would use up a few calories a day. So it wouldn't be 15 pounds, it'd be less than that.

(2) The hardest part is that our bodies appear to have a "set point" they want to get to. And so if you go into starvation mode, your body fights you by becoming more efficient. So once you go off the diet, if you go back to your old eating habits, the weight will start coming right back.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, because Western medicine learned a few things in Eastern medicine wasn't snake oil makes Western medicine arrogant, inadequate, and a source of idiocy.

I didn't say that. You, on the other hand, attacked the Eastern medicine without knowing what the hell you were talking about.

And, before you try to play the "Medical school" or "doctor" card, let me point out that I have no general issue with Western medicine, that I rely almost exclusively on Western medicine and medical approaches, and that many in my family are in the medical field, including doctors and nurses, and these discussions have been held many times. The rest of your post has been proven wrong time and again, as modern Western medicine has often shunned effective medicine not just from the East, but also from the western past (see maggots, leeches), for long periods of time.

And calling my mindset, which is nothing more than objectivity, "conspiracy theory" was just stupid.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I'm 6'7" 295ish. True story.

And where were you when the Patriots needed you?

 

[DocHoliday]

I didn't say that. You, on the other hand, attacked the Eastern medicine without knowing what the hell you were talking about.

And, before you try to play the "Medical school" or "doctor" card, let me point out that I have no general issue with Western medicine, and that many in my family are in the medical field, including doctors and nurses, and these discussions have been held many times. The rest of your post has been proven wrong time and again, as modern Western medicine has often shunned effective medicine not just from the East, but also from the western past (see maggots, leeches), for long periods of time.

And calling my mindset, which is nothing more than objectivity, "conspiracy theory" was just stupid.

Yes you did say that. You use two of those terms specifically. The tone implied you thought it was inadequate.

I attack eastern medicine because I see countless patients sucked into spending countless dollars paying for worthless herbs instead of seeing a proper doctor and getting treated. Naturopathic doctors have a long history of knowingly preying on the ill informed in this country.

If you were actually objective, you would see that the 'Eastern doctor' in question is succeeding because of his excellent diet advice, not worthless herbs and bark.

You keep bringing up the past sins of Western medicine. That's fine, but you must concede that Western medicine is not a static entity and is always improving. Things like acupuncture and no longer exclusive to 'eastern medicine'. There are documented uses of certain herbs. And that's wonderful, because medical science squeezes out the good from the worthless and casts the rest aside. This is the power of western medicine.

I also didn't see which parts of my post has been proven wrong time and time again. Feel free to quote

 

[Patjew]

5'9", 169 lbs.

I dropped about 15-20 lbs after moving back from China just from getting back to a normal diet. I work out less but more intensely now. Also, tragedy is good for weight control... for me, anyway.

Let's start listing height and weight. For some reason I think that will be fun and an interesting way to picture everyone here.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes you did say that.

No, I didn't. You took what I said and tried to twist it, either due to lack of reading comprehension or deliberately. Sorry, I'm not playing that game. If you're going to be in the medical profession, you'd better learn to read for better comprehension, or to be more honest if you actually comprehended what I wrote and decided to be deliberately misleading about.

Western medicine has been arrogant. This isn't controversial. However,

because Western medicine learned a few things in Eastern medicine wasn't snake oil makes Western medicine arrogant, inadequate, and a source of idiocy.

was not what I said, at all. Hell, I referenced ulcers, which isn't even an Eastern/Western medicine issue.

 

[Ring 6]

(1) You at least had to get up and go get the candy bar, which would use up a few calories a day. So it wouldn't be 15 pounds, it'd be less than that.

(2) The hardest part is that our bodies appear to have a "set point" they want to get to. And so if you go into starvation mode, your body fights you by becoming more efficient. So once you go off the diet, if you go back to your old eating habits, the weight will start coming right back.

Agreed, there is a metabolic factor, but again, someone significantly overweight will lose substantial weight by changing their eating habits.
But you said it yourself, when you go back to your old habits.
Look at it this way:
If I weigh 350lbs, by body expects me to weigh 350 lbs but that is because of my eating habits.
If I start eating like someone who should weigh 180 lbs, then I will start moving toward that, slowly but surely.
If I get to 250 lbs then go back to the old eating habits of a 350 lber, I will slowly but surely go back to 350.
Note the key here isn't a predetermined body type or weight, but the change in diet.
That 350 lb guy weighs that much for a reason, so the argument that a diet isn't good because when you go back to the way you used to eat you gain it back is pointless, since that way of eating is why he grew to 350 in the first place.
The dietary changes need to be permanent for the weigh loss to be permanent.
There is no short cut.

 

[DocHoliday]

No, I didn't. You took what I said and tried to twist it, either due to lack of reading comprehension or deliberately. Sorry, I'm not playing that game. If you're going to be in the medical profession, you'd better learn to read for better comprehension, or to be more honest if you actually comprehended what I wrote and decided to be deliberately misleading about.

Western medicine has been arrogant. This isn't controversial. However,



was not what I said, at all. Hell, I referenced ulcers, which isn't even an Eastern/Western medicine issue.

It's been awhile Deus, with tapatalk being nonfunctional for a few months. I forgot how slippery you can be.

 

[Zeus]

My sister is the chief nutritionist at a hospital here in the Boston area. She recommended a book called Eat, Drink and Be Healthy by Dr. Walter Willett. No exotic diets - just common sense, practical advice. It helped me.

 

[Joker]

You really have a hard on for me, eh? I put the link up in a post to help explain the eastern approach. You go beserk on me because I used "blocked spleen". YOU took that literally without reading any part of that link as it relates to Qi.

Obviously YOU don't believe Qi exists. I do. I studied Kenpo in my 20's and it improved my stamina, weight and jumping ability. Qi is central to all martial arts. YOU scoff at it obviously. That is YOUR prerogative "Doc". I graduated BU School of Engineering in 73. I studied Latin from the 8th grade until the 12th.I'm not some Joey Neckbone that just fell off a goddamned turnip truck.

I am under the direct supervision medically of two great doctors. They are well recognized in their chosen fields, my cardiologist also teaches.I do exactly what they say, take the meds they prescibe and have regular checkups. I am NOT shunning "western medicine". Quite the contrary, I'm employing the best options available to me. Does that mean I take whatever a doctor says as gospel? Hell no!...here's one example from MY life.

I live in Charlestown, RI. There's a beautiful estuary rich in shellfish and I exploit it whenever I can. One summer I got a speck of bottom sand in my eye. A day later my eye puffed up and closed purple. I went to the ER and the doctor saw me and immediately prescribed Prednisone. "That will take care of it" he promised. A week later I go back to South Count Hosp with the eye shut again. THIS time, a nurse practitioner declares "you need an injection PLUS the pill regimen". Another week later and I go back to South County and the head ER doctor is there and he takes a look. "I'm prescribing Prednisone " he says. The kicker is, this doctor is someone I grew up with, someone I graduated LaSalle Academy with, and someone who, because his father was a doctor, desperately wanted to get into Villanova and pre-med. Unfortunately, he choked his college boards in junior year. I spent most of the summer going into our senior year playing baseball with him and tutoring him on his SAT's and he scored low 6's that year, enough to make it with his dad's alumnus connection.

Yeah, take this steroid. Guess what, genius...I put on 25 pounds in three weeks and STILL the eye closed up again. I was desperate. There was a skin/allergy clinic down the street in a strip mall from South County. I stopped in and one of the women specialists took a look. She gave me a few small bottle vials of this stuff called Rosula for NOTHING. Two days later the eye was back to normal.

Now here I am, Joey Balloons, waddling around like a pregnant duck from these goddamned steroids, so I call my old friend up and go to see him in his office. I asked him why he prescribed the steroids when they obviously were not working and he said "Protocol. The first thing used to treat any inflammation is a steroid like prednisone". Anything????????????? That's right. Bee sting, allergic reaction, on and on "STEROIDS!!!!!!!".

Yeah, it's a wonderful drug, ask any med student. Didn't do a damn thing but damn near killed me... but yeah, "wonder drug!!!". Like ****ing Thalidomide.

 

[patfanken]

After reading all this I have a desperate urge to get a mushroom pizza with extra sauce.....and have it with a cup of corns silk tea.

 

[Ring 6]

You really have a hard on for me, eh? I put the link up in a post to help explain the eastern approach. You go beserk on me because I used "blocked spleen". YOU took that literally without reading any part of that link as it relates to Qi.

Obviously YOU don't believe Qi exists. I do. I studied Kenpo in my 20's and it improved my stamina, weight and jumping ability. Qi is central to all martial arts. YOU scoff at it obviously. That is YOUR prerogative "Doc". I graduated BU School of Engineering in 73. I studied Latin from the 8th grade until the 12th.I'm not some Joey Neckbone that just fell off a goddamned turnip truck.

I am under the direct supervision medically of two great doctors. They are well recognized in their chosen fields, my cardiologist also teaches.I do exactly what they say, take the meds they prescibe and have regular checkups. I am NOT shunning "western medicine". Quite the contrary, I'm employing the best options available to me. Does that mean I take whatever a doctor says as gospel? Hell no!...here's one example from MY life.

I live in Charlestown, RI. There's a beautiful estuary rich in shellfish and I exploit it whenever I can. One summer I got a speck of bottom sand in my eye. A day later my eye puffed up and closed purple. I went to the ER and the doctor saw me and immediately prescribed Prednisone. "That will take care of it" he promised. A week later I go back to South Count Hosp with the eye shut again. THIS time, a nurse practitioner declares "you need an injection PLUS the pill regimen". Another week later and I go back to South County and the head ER doctor is there and he takes a look. "I'm prescribing Prednisone " he says. The kicker is, this doctor is someone I grew up with, someone I graduated LaSalle Academy with, and someone who, because his father was a doctor, desperately wanted to get into Villanova and pre-med. Unfortunately, he choked his college boards in junior year. I spent most of the summer going into our senior year playing baseball with him and tutoring him on his SAT's and he scored low 6's that year, enough to make it with his dad's alumnus connection.

Yeah, take this steroid. Guess what, genius...I put on 25 pounds in three weeks and STILL the eye closed up again. I was desperate. There was a skin/allergy clinic down the street in a strip mall from South County. I stopped in and one of the women specialists took a look. She gave me a few small bottle vials of this stuff called Rosula for NOTHING. Two days later the eye was back to normal.

Now here I am, Joey Balloons, waddling around like a pregnant duck from these goddamned steroids, so I call my old friend up and go to see him in his office. I asked him why he prescribed the steroids when they obviously were not working and he said "Protocol. The first thing used to treat any inflammation is a steroid like prednisone". Anything????????????? That's right. Bee sting, allergic reaction, on and on "STEROIDS!!!!!!!".

Yeah, it's a wonderful drug, ask any med student. Didn't do a damn thing but damn near killed me... but yeah, "wonder drug!!!". Like ****ing Thalidomide.

Taking a break from the everyone knowing everything thread, congrats to you Joker for the commitment to following through on the changes that were prescribed. Its much easier said than done, and it sounds like it has turned out very well for you.

 

[BradyManny]

My sister is the chief nutritionist at a hospital here in the Boston area. She recommended a book called Eat, Drink and Be Healthy by Dr. Walter Willett. No exotic diets - just common sense, practical advice. It helped me.

Never heard this book, but thinking like this makes a lot of sense. I think it's worth pointing out that nutrition, medicine & science are three completely different things, each with very different standards. Standards, I would suspect, that will only continue to diverge.

It's also worth pointing out that the human body is a ridiculously complicated physical system. We'll continue to understand it better as time goes on, but I proceed with caution in the meanwhile and stay away from the fad stuff.

Anyway. How did this thread get here??

 

[Zeus]

Taking a break from the everyone knowing everything thread, congrats to you Joker for the commitment to following through on the changes that were prescribed. Its much easier said than done, and it sounds like it has turned out very well for you.

Hey Joker - I'll echo that sentiment. I'm excited and happy for you that you are doing so well. Also relieved to see that your new regimen has not affected your sanity (er, ... or complete lack thereof).