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60 Minutes on Kurdish North

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Pretty amazing stuff. What's amazing about it is the normalcy of their society. Here you have muslims in the middle of the ME, in a country ravaged by death and destruction, living in peace, and growing prosperity. Why is this not the case in other pats of Iraq or the ME? Why are these people not savage primitives like the rest?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2491526n
  2. Patti37

    Patti37 Rookie

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    The Kurds in Northern Iraq established a somewhat democratic "country" after the first Iraq war when the US patrolled the sky over Iraq. They even wrote their own constitution. The peshmerga (sp) were dedicated to maintaining the Northern borders.

    Because of the situation in Turkey, I sometimes think they may be labelled as terrorists because of some of their tactics in response to abuses by the Turkish government.

    They are a people who have suffered during the course of history...there were times in history when they were told they would be autonomous and then were sold out by world powers.
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Kurds are the largest enthic group in the world without a country. What is telling though of their society, is that they are muslim, are in the ME, and have an extremely civil, and propserous lifestyle. Why? Why are they so different than virtually all of their muslim counterparts? Could it be because they don't live under totalitarian rule? Is it because there is no oppressive regime to brainwash them? When I see the Kurds, I wonder why the rest, or at least the majority of the ME is not the same. At any rate, Kurdistan is impressive.
  4. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    so they're all merely savage primatives? are you truly that out of touch with reality, Mr. Bunker?

    you do realize Iraq was among the most modernized nations in the region before we destroyed their infrastructure, yes?
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2007
  5. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who are you quoting?
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Modernized? HAHAHAHAHA!

    [​IMG]
  7. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    answer the question, coward... do you stand behind your genius comment that the "rest of them" are "savage primatives?"
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Hmmm....let me think about this. Yup, the rest of them "generally speaking of course" are savage primitives. Anyone that would listen to a preist or cleric, and kill someone, is a savage primitive. :D
  9. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    and there we have it... "generally speaking"...
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    While we're at it, these guys a primitives too. :D

    [​IMG]
  11. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    What "tactics" are you referring to, and in response to "what abuses by the Turkish government" ?
    The 30,000 people that the Turks lost to acts of Kurdish terrorism, is that it?
    Or is it the humanitarian aid that they got after the first Bush-Iraq war games, when Saddam came North to blow them away, and they ran to that evil Turkey?
    Maybe it is the schools that they bombed, or the hospitals, police stations, shopping malls killing thousands of innocent people of Turkish citizenship, which by the way, they also enjoy with the same exact rights and priviliges, having their own representatives in Turkish Congress and in local government.
    I think that we need to do more than watch one clip before making a judgment on how civilized the Kurds of N. Iraq are.
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Fair enough, but that would bode true of every nation or ethnicity now wouldn't it?
  13. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    What would?
    If you are referring to my very last statement in the previous post; then the answer is: yes, of course.
  14. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Poor Turks...everybody hates them and picks on them. Those nasty Kurds, the evil Greeks, the awesome might of the Armenians.

    Did it ever occur to you, Turk, that your government, through time, has been guilty of abuse and are not the only "victims" in the region, and that maybe, the animosity toward Turkey by her neighbors is at least partially due to the behavior of the Turkish government? Is that possible? Not saying everyone doesn't share responsibility, but these things don't happen in a vacuum. I like Turks personally and I know a few Turkish Aramaic immigrants here - they're all good people, but the government has done some sh-t in the past and may be doing it still.
  15. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Ah, Bob Ross... may he rest in peace...
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    That is what I was referring to. Sure the Kurds are not perfect, niether are the Turks, Americans, catholics, muslims, blacks, aliens, etc... I wasn't trying to make them seem that way, as much as I was trying to show how they are progressing civilly through democratic means.
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Talk about an awesome dude. I remember coming home from school as a kid, and always watching his show. I was real young, and when he would start his work, I'd always say to myself "WTF is he trying to paint?", and then after a bit, you'd see it in front of you. Awesome stuff.
  18. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Yeah I did the same thing... First he'd take a little vandyke brown... add in some yellow ochre... then all of a sudden there's an entire mountain range with flowing springs and a beautiful sunset in the background...

    But I must have missed the episode where he did the painting in that picture you posted here :D
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I think he did that specifically for Agenda Boy. Maybe that's why. :D
  20. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    First of all, they are not my government.
    Second of all, I have never claimed that they were perfect or that they were the only victims in the region.
    As a matter of fact, I have been a vocal critic of the Turkish Government when they did wrong and they did so plenty.
    I did get in trouble with the law there because of articles that I wrote in the 70's and 80"s, which were (let's say) critical of the lack of tolerance and human rights abuses.
    But now, we are talking about today, and they have come a long way.
    When it comes to wrongdoings of the past, so has our government and every other one. But this issue at hand about the Kurdish terrorism of today, is a subject of double-standards by most here in the USA. How would you like it if Native Americans blew up the school bus carrying your children, and then burnt down your house, placed bombs in your malls, grocery stores, killing the innocent by the thousands? Do they have the right? Do they have the right to ask you, to tell you rather, that you need to give them one half or maybe more of this country?
    Do they not have the same rights as you and I do as American citizens?
    Do they have the right to be seperatists, do the Cubans in Miami?
    How about the Mexican Americans of the West and the South, joining with their brothers in Mexico and demanding CA and a few more states, and bombing a few schools and hospitals to make their point?
    Would that be okay? Would you call them freedom fighters?
    As far as the issues that the Turks have with Kurds, Greeks and Armenians, those are scores that were never settled after WWI, by those three. Turkey gets along fine with the rest of her neighbors and is the strongest ally of Israel and the USA in the region.
    By no means are we talking about an angel here, but who is? Are we?
    Especially when you consider where they are, the most volatile region the world, you have to give them credit for being the only democracy, there and the stronghold that they have been against the expansion of communism and Islamic terrorism.
    Do we look at terrorism differently when it comes to others?
    By the way, what is a Turkish Aramaic?
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2007

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