Welcome to PatsFans.com

6 Linebackers

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATRIOTS-80, Aug 4, 2006.

  1. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    As far as LB, we got 6 guys who have started games under their belts -- with 3 real good ones. The three good ones being Colvin, Vrabel and Bruschi -- and the other three with starts under there belt are Gardner, Brown, and Beisel. We also got ST/reserves for guys like TBC and Eric Alexander. We also got 2 spots for a pure ST/developmental rook like Izzo, Don Davis or Mincey. Any :mad: sort of feelings for our LB depth is not because of the #, but because of the bad taste of Brown and Beisel being overmatched at ILB. Of course, we all know that Brown had no business at ILB (Ted Johnson shock retirement), and the young, overmatched Beisel was there because of Bruschi's stroke.

    Expect to see BB play all 6 LB I mentioned get playing time. Incidentally, typical BB all are vets with the exception of Beisel....

    Hopefully Bruschi's sore wrist will heal in time for the opening-day ... if not, like Harrison he should be ready to go early in the season.

    As long as we have either Vrabel or Bruschi on the field we will be fine as far a play-calling ... which was a HUGE issue last year.

    The signing of Gardner ILB moved Chad Brown to OLB where he has excelled in the league.

    BOTTOMLINE: We may not have the luxury of having 6 guys who are starters in the league, but we nonetheless have 6 guys who have started games in the league. The depth isn't horrible as far as #. It is not like we only have 3 guys who have started football games in the NFL, and the rest are rookies and UDFAs. If either Vrabel or Bruschi is on the field, play-calling will be fine. If we lose both ... could be trouble.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2006
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,854
    Likes Received:
    273
    Ratings:
    +698 / 17 / -19

    #24 Jersey

    I have no idea what Gardner's problems have been throughout his career but he has solid ability, size and character. Based on everything I know, he should be able to be a solid ILB, I guess there's a reason he's not had a better career though.
     
  3. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    he seems to be just what he's doing for us ... spot starter/excellent ST. Couple of years he led his team with ST tackles. He's also spot started in the 4-3 as a middle LB, as well as the other 2 positions. Moving to a 3-4 ILB should augment his abilities in theory.
     
  4. Nyjetsin06

    Nyjetsin06 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0


    he couldnt even start a game on a 4-12 Jets team!
     
  5. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    An interesting notion for debate is that we carry roughly the same amount of DB's and LB. But 4 DB play all the time, 2 CB and 2 Safties. Sometimes we have 5 DB (nickel), and sometimes we play 6 (dime). Whereas, 4 LB are on the field only about 50% of the time. In nickel situations, its 2 LB. In Dime, only one is on the field (sometimes we do put our pass-rusing LB at DE in those formations).

    On Pat teams, it seems Troy Brown is always out there at the end of the season. Depth-wise the team might be better not because of the LB-depth per se, but because we seem to have have more saftey/CB depth than in previous years. HERE'S TO NOT SEE TROY BROWN MOONLIGHTING IN OUR SECEONDARY!!! :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2005
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,854
    Likes Received:
    273
    Ratings:
    +698 / 17 / -19

    #24 Jersey

    Of course, that was on a team playing a totally different defense. But I guess that wouldn't matter to you.
     
  7. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    umm, check your facts ... he did start one game. And you are supposed to be a Jets fan.

    http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=32041

    2005 (NYJ): Appeared in 16 games with the Jets, starting one and finished the season with 17 tackles, 13 solo.
     
  8. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Barry Gardner joins the Patriots for his eighth NFL season after previously playing for the Philadelphia Eagles (1999-2002), Cleveland Browns (2003-04) and New York Jets (2005). The 6-foot-1-inch, 245-pound linebacker has played in 110 career games with 24 starts and has recorded 186 career tackles (130 solo), two sacks, one interception, seven passes defensed, three forced fumbles and three fumble recoveries. Additionally, the Northwestern product has made 92 career special teams tackles.

    http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=32041

    Also, like BB fan said, we are a 3-4 team, not a cover-2, 4-3 team like you were last year under Herm.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2006
  9. Nyjetsin06

    Nyjetsin06 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0


    Yes. I know. And the Jets are bringing in the 3-4 scheme. It was a joke. I come here in peace. I find the 3-4 to be intriguing but it worries me in ways. I think it may also limit Jonathan Vilmas abilility. any feedback on the ups and downs of it, other then 3 sb rings,
     
  10. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    I really think that improved DB/CB depth should help the Pats this year IMHO. I think Willie Andrews could stick on the team as the last CB just because of his returning abilities.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2006
  11. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    It should improve Vilma. Bruschi flourished in it.

    The whole key to the 3-4 is the NT spot. If Robertson can hold down that job (like Wilfork does for us) the 3-4 will work for you guys.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2006
  12. Nyjetsin06

    Nyjetsin06 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0


    We will see. Its just they are both different. Vilma works off speed. Sideline to sideline. Not used to to taking on as much Olinemen in his face... Ray Lewis was effected by the switch.
     
  13. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Who is playing next to Vilma at ILB?

    If Robertson can hold down the NT spot, and the other ILB can take on the LB (like Ted Johnson used to for us), the other LB can rove.

    JMHO, but I think Ray Lewis rapidly declined, 3-4 or no 3-4.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2006
  14. Nyjetsin06

    Nyjetsin06 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0


    So far Barton will be next to him. With Bryan Thomas and Hobson/Brad Kassell on the outside also NE's Chatham and Rookie Schlegal subing in on the inside I would believe. Im expecting Drob to live up to expectations this year..I wouldnt mind seeing Vilma on the outside though, he would create havoc on blitzes
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2006
  15. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,544
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    LBs with starts: Add Don Davis, he started for the Rams in 2001

    Why is Gardner seeming to play better here? He started while in Philadelphia in a gap-control system, then he spent his time in penetratrion/speed systems working Special Teams, now he comes here and looks to be a good fit in BB's gap control system...intriguing.

    Vilma - Bruschi and his slippery style is a good role model for him, Donnie Edwards play in San Diego is another to look at for being a bit undersized for the 3-4 ILB role.
     
  16. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    9,057
    Likes Received:
    118
    Ratings:
    +330 / 60 / -40

    No Jersey Selected

    My vision for the LBs:

    Starters - Colvin
    Bruschi
    Vrabel either in or out, depending on who plays better - TBC at OLB, or Beisel at ILB

    Reserves - TBC/Beisel
    Chad Brown - OLB
    Klecko - ILB (I know, dream on)
    Roach - ILB
    Mincey/Woods - OLB...I have a feeling that one, but not both, of them makes it.
    Gardner - ILB and ST, making Izzo and Davis, neither of whom can play NFL LB any more, obsolete.

    9/10 LBs are enough. There is no way we should have more LBs than DBs on the 53. Quality DB depth would otherwise be seriously compromised.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2005
  17. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    6,665
    Likes Received:
    177
    Ratings:
    +417 / 36 / -17


    Great Observation and Post!

    Finally, someone is talking sense and not mindless drivel. Chad Brown, as a spot stating ability reserve, IS the equivalent of what Willie McG was becoming.

    People remember what he WAS, not what his last season for us said. The Jax playoff game showed that an old pro can reach back and momentarily bring it back, but it inflated a season of rather mediocre stats. Willie was the consumate pro but he is losing it, and RAC hired him for his locker room presesnce, as much as anyhting he can still do on the field.
     
  18. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    6,665
    Likes Received:
    177
    Ratings:
    +417 / 36 / -17

    The issue is not 3-4. Its more one-gap versus 2-gap. The Steelers play a one-gap and Belichick and disciples play a 2-gap (even when they go 4-3). The one-gap still allows for the penetrating Le beau type player, especially in the LB corps. Belichick's disciplined system is strictly read-control-react.

    To play Belichick's system you need big, tough, Defensive linemen, who are good enough that they can play read-react, take a blow, and still play as if they were one gapping. That asks a lot, and consequently we have 4 #1s and 2 #2 and a #4 as our DL for three positions.

    As far as the LBs are concerned, Belichick's system is read-react but don't free lance. He can than get away with slower players (ie. bigger, older, experienced, sage, vets preferred) but only if no free lancing is enforced otherwise holes open up and the other players are too slow to be able to close them against a good running game.

    Vilma will have problems, I predict. But his talent should allow him to beef up over the next season or two and he'll be fine.

    As a backup to Vilma, I am not surprised that Gardner seldom saw the field. How come he got a start? Was Vilma dinged up? And how did he do that game? My theory is that Gardner was just the type of vet that Belichick turns in to a minor star. The profile: A former high pick who does not excel but is smart and willing to work hard as exemplified by ST experience. These guys can play disciplined ball, and carry out their assignment which is drawn up to be not overwhelming athletically, and that is all that BB really needs. Examples are Phifer and Vrabel who were not anywhere as "good" as they became with the Patriots in their late twenties and thirties.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2006
  19. Willie55

    Willie55 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,595
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Not even close.

    Are you saying that McGinest was a spot starting reserve?
     
  20. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    13,259
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    As the addage goes, better a year early than a year late.

    McGinest was becoming that. We saw it when Colvin came in, but when he got hurt the plan was postponed. Again, in 2005, it appeared Colvin would take the lead over McGinest, but when Bruschi and Johnson went down, Vrabel had to move inside and McGinest was back to full-time outside.

    One would have to think either this year or next would be the one where Vrabel and Colvin would finally take over fully at OLB as BB seemingly envisioned, with McGinest seeing time as a pass rusher (a la Colvin in 2004).
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>