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58% of Americans want us to Waterboard the NWA bomber

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patriot_in_NY, Dec 31, 2009.

  1. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    :singing:


    Not all that surprising to me. When it comes to protecting Americans, most of us are just not enlightened I guess.

    Interestingly, another finding that is not surprising, but also not what we are gonna do with the Obama Administrations "Law Enforcement" model.


     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009
  2. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I think people would be/are more willing to waterboard a known terrorist like this. Where most have an issue, is with waterboarding anyone, or everyone, we pick up and lock down.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's really sad. Sort of reminds me of this:

    1 in 3 Muslim students approve killing for Islam

    If there was only a way to persuade both parties that violence and hate don't pay off, but sadly those who advocate violence feed off each other.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009
  4. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    True, I actually have those same reservations. But lets face it, we only used on a select few KNOWN terrorists like KSM. It's not like we were waterboarding just anyone.
     
  5. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Here's the difference Patters....

    One is a group of American's whose country was ATTACKED by a foreigner (airliner attack)

    And the other is a poll of students living in the UK who support (33%) attacks upon the very country THEY ARE LIVING IN!

    That would be like 33% of American Muslims believing it's ok to kill Americans for Islam.

    Hopefully you do see the difference here.
     
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do you need to waterboard a person who is disclosing information and cooperating?? In reality you do not know what he is doing... the ain't it awful and what might happen folks reign. Lets waterboard him anyways...
     
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course we have NEVER waterboarded 'anyone & everyone, we pick up and lock down'. The only people waterboarded were the top echelon people with knowledge of impending attacks and the structure of the organization. We only waterboarded ~ 5 people.
     
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is crazy to try to equate advocating questioning a killer (failed or successful) who may have information about other plots and who would suffer no harm, with condoning & advocating the random killing of innocents.
     
  9. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    [​IMG]

    Mr. Dre? Mr. N.W.A.?
    Mr. AK comin' straight outta Compton y'all better make way?

    PS, get over yourselves. It's an eminem lyric on a song w/Dre. Just found our usual penchant for acronyms hereabouts unintentionally humorous as hell.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, both sides have the "enemy" attacking the other, and both sides have an "enemy" made up of citizens, or are you claiming that Iraqis, Sudanese, etc. are not attacking their own countrymen?
     
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  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree there's a big difference, so if they get an a F for civilized behavior, we get a C-.
     
  12. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    It's funny the closer we are to these incidents the more ruthless the average person is. We are about 9yrs removed from 911 so peace and forgiveness permeates the average persons soul. They want to do the right thing. Use all the "proper" channels for gathering information or interrogation. Now if you had asked most people the day after 911 if they cared if we hung the bastards by their nuts. I think we would get a resounding no, with a only if we set em on fire after rebuttal. So I am not surprised that most polled want to break this guys spirit at any cost. What scares me is if you took that poll again in 18 months, peace and love would once again be on the docket. Why? Because, we as Americans tend to be fickle and self consumed!
     
  13. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If we pour green tea on his head ... is it still water boarding?
     
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's a good a example of the cycle I'm talking about. Except for the last sentence, your post could have been written by a conservative Muslim in Britain. To sustain the war machine, we must maintain the cycle of violence. I think the risks in trying to break the cycle are no worse than maintaining it.
     
  15. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    No, not really....so let my try to be clearer.

    58% of AMERICANS would like the FOREIGN terrorists interrogated using waterboarding. This man is a foreigner who attacked our country.

    The 33% of Muslim students say it's ok to kill anyone, anywhere for Islam. Of course that would include UK Muslim students (well 33% anyway) that would support killing their own citizens in support of Islam.

    First off, we talking about ONE man the 58% of Americans support waterboarding compared to who knows how many people these Muslim students would support killing in the name of Islam.

    There is a HUGE difference between supporting killing ones fellow countrymen and supporting waterboarding....I'm sure you don't deny that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Now, you're changing your point. Your initial point was that the situation is now; now you are arguing that the crime is different.

    As I said to pf13, it is true the crime is different. The Muslim students get an F in human decency, and we only get a C-. It's difficult to extrapolate, but I think it's reasonable to say that if 58% favor waterboarding in some instances, then a sizeable number favors something more extreme in some instance.

    Poll: Twenty Percent Of Americans Support Torturing Terrorist Suspects

    The methods of terrorists, I think are just poor man's war. We want to create a moral standard for war that favors us militarily. I don't blame us for doing that, but in all honesty there is nothing more moral about using large bombs dropping from planes to accidentally kill scores of civilians and using a suicide bomber to intentionally kill scores of civilians. If our country was overtaken by fundamentalist Muslims, and we had no weapons, I bet we'd resort to some pretty awful measures too. It's all a matter of perspective. But, again, the right wing on both sides feeds the war machine.
     
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Human decency involves protecting the lives of the innocent, waterboarding does this when applied to the right enemy combatants.

    Allowing the guilty to successfully kill the innocent is not decent behavior.
     
  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's a slippery slide, and there are plenty of experts who believe that torture is not conducive to collecting good intelligence.
     
  19. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    How about drugs then?
     
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that's far more acceptable, depending on the nature of the drug of course. I think what ever we think would be acceptable for them to do to one of our people should be the standard we go by. I also believe that extremely abusive methods of interrogation make no sense, and for those extremely rare situations where such methods might be necessary, it should be a conscience of the interrogator. Quite frankly, if I was sitting with a terrorist and an atom bomb I would do whatever was necessary to get the terrorist to disconnect, even if my actions resulted in jail time for me. That's just a price that must sometimes be paid in the name of moving our world in a civilized direction.
     

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