Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Ilikehappyppl, Feb 19, 2013.
Dow and S&P close at new 5-year highs - Feb. 19, 2013
We are right on track...
We are? Or the stock market is?
I'm not trying to rain on any good news, but has hiring picked up at all?
I know my employer is still on their 2 year hiring freeze and will be through this year....but what do i know.
The investor class is doing the happy dance..
I guess that is sorta my point D.
It's really sweet that the stock market (and businesses?) are doing well (5 year highs).
But is that really manifesting itself into jobs, pay etc etc etc etc.
Again, not trying to rain on any good news. Just doesn't seem to be making it from Wall St. to Main.
Hiring has been steady, that's not the markets fault that's our congresses fault. Imo hiring would of been a ton better the last few months if congress would get its act together and pass things that need passing and work on things that need worked on. Instead they're posturing and playing chicken and see who gonna cave first, instead of working things out like adults.
Either way things are on the up swing, I've been saying it since the election and was thinking it long before, I don't know how to explain it but life is about waves, its just how it works...some bigger then others and some smaller.We are on the upswing IMO at the moment.
Housing is up and at new highs, stock market is up, jobs are steady and if these idiots in Washington can get their acts together maybe will shoot out of this long downturn. Either way, steady growth might be a good thing in some aspects, if the highs aren't as high, the lows aren't as low...
Great point....the stock market isn't the economy. But at least both are over-inflated.
Here's the catch of the day regarding what is driving stocks higher. It's mergers!! And what happens when mergers increase? Jobs are lost, that's what happens!
US STOCKS-M&A deals lift shares, suggest value in market - Yahoo! Finance
54% of Americans own stock.....87% of those making $75k or more own stocks.
Are 401ks included in that percentage?
Ahh good ole merger talk. Apparently my employer will be "merging" with another competitor come the summer.
Ill just keep plugging along to help ensure I am not one of the "duplicate" types.
Understood happy. Agreed across the board with your post.
I guess to further my point - if the market was a solid indicator then "at a 5 year high" being driven by something tangible, then there would be more spikes in the hiring.
If my employer is any type of barometer, they have been and will continue to do "more with less".
The only thing that sucks is mid level types like myself (AVP) get worked to the bone, as there "is a resource issue", yet the higher ups hit their head count budgets (ensuring their bonuses).
I guess that's how the corporate cookie crumbles
I thought Wall St was the bad guy? Shouldn't we tax these evil corporate entities! Or is it that the only true industry America has left is exchanging money, a transacting middle man unable to create something tangible.
Yup, they sure are...
Oh? Cool. My old corporation should be giving their peeps that modest cost-of-living raise again any day now for the first time since 2008, per their contract.
Ooops, nope. Still nothing.
Gosh, I wonder how much further the cost of everything else vital to basic human survival is gonna rise before that flat-line in pay ever budges again.
Ah well. Growth isn't over or anything. Just look at the Dow!
Lets source this claim.. as apparently you are too lazy to do so..
Having a mutual fund or IRA hardly classifies you as being part of the investor class..
Perhaps this is what you refer to..
In U.S., 54% Have Stock Market Investments, Lowest Since 1999
I wonder what percent of Americans own new Mercedes Benz's?
And the answer is?
Who cares! No one, that's who!
I don't trust the market right now and have no faith in it. The house of cards might be getting taller for the time being, but it's still a house of cards.
History has shown us that the higher and faster the stock market balloons, the bigger & harder the fall that follows. I'm not predicting anything, I'm just stating fact.
Pretty much, and guess who's set up to win from that scenario.
I didn't realize alvinnf posted in size 5, bold, red font.....
Otherwise, I might have missed it!
It's good that the market is doing well, but lets not forget that the market was also doing real well in 1987, 2000, 2007...
Indeed they are. They can thank the printed money pumping by the fed, the price for which we peons will all eventually pay, and the lack of ways to earn a return anywhere else.
I'm just curious, in your view, where is congress at fault? What should they be doing specifically?
Yes it does.
Bingo. Sadly, they can only do it with the help of the fed, who is printing money nonstop, on the taxpayers back, and using it to buy up worthless mortgage backed securities. Good times.
Preach it Brother! :rocker:
We're currently transitioning into a society of humans and machines, IMO. Machines are constantly getting more advanced and productive. Even the low-teck ones like road pavers and nail guns. Houses are being made in factories by robots with robot saws, nailers, and assemblers and require only a small crew to assemble them in the field. Pretty soon, those assemblers will no longer be needed.
In offices, people are being replaced by computers and other high-tech machines and bots. The last bookstores are going. Barnes and Noble are on the brink after having put everyone else out of business. In fact, many brick-and-mortar businesses are on their way out. Malls will soon be occupied by just restaraunts, movie theaters and clothing stores (if they're not already). You can buy pretty much everything else on line. I just bought my first pair of boots on line and I feel like I'm killing a job.
It's happening everywhere. This is why we see corporations making record profits and worker productivity going through the roof. It's not because people are working smarter or harder. It's that they have help from the bots and their tools are better than ever. The only ones who benefit from this scenario are the corporations and their stock-holders. Thios will not end. It will progress until human input is obsolete, and it is only human arrogance that asserts that we will always be needed.
So the question is, what do we do with the people who have nothing to do? In the 80's after the Cold War ended, there was talk about a "Peace Dividend" and how we would be re-allocating all the money we spent on preparing for nuclear war into civil projects to repair and upgrade the country. It never happened because the Investor class decided that their taxes should be lowered and began a huge effort to eliminate welfare, pensions, and "entitlements" for the poor while they enhanced and protected their own entitlements. The Peace Dividend was consumed by the investor class.
Now we're at the brink of what could be and should be a "Tech Dividend", which- I'm sad to report- won't be happening either. Now not only do the Owners refuse to contribute more to society in the form of tax increases, but they want their corporations to have their taxes lowered as well. They say that in order for jobs to be created and returned to the US (as if) they will need to remain "competitive" which means they have to continue on the trend of redistributing the nations wealth upward towards THEM and away from the communist rabble under them. Anything less than the continuation of this trend will mean the economy will be ruined and we will lose more and more jobs. It's blackmail.
Lazy....lol. Well first off, I've seen that "sourced" a number of places in the past. Second, I remembered it off the top of my head and quoted it.
Third, if you "invest", then you are an investor. The nature or amount of your investment is immaterial.
Also, these percentages don't include investments made by people into small businesses so the "Investor" class, comrade, is actually the vast majority of Americans.
If only all Americans would invest (if even just a little bit) or be allowed to invest, this country would be in significantly better shape.
Spoken like a true financial planner.
So even recognizing that there is an "Investor Class" makes you a communist, huh?
Nice try at blurring the lines. You know what the Investor Class is, so don't pretend there is no such thing. You also know that there is a huge difference between people who have a 401K and work two jobs that they have to work, and the members of the Investor Class who have never had to work, have people manage their wealth, don't know or care how much money they have, and are on vacation 24-7. These are the Owners who don't want you to know they even exist, yet make all the big decisions.
5 paragraphs...not "too" bad wistah!!
I often wonder if we're benefitting from computer more than we're paying a price for them. So did Raymond Kurzweil!!
2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal
Singularity: Kurzweil on 2045, When Humans, Machines Merge - TIME
Well, so much for that........
NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. stocks fell on Thursday, on track for the biggest two-day decline since November, as weak data suggested expectations for economic growth were overly optimistic.
The two-day decline was stocks' first sustained pullback this year. The S&P 500 is up 5.4 percent so far this year and risen for seven straight weeks, putting it near five-year highs.
In the latest economic data, initial claims for unemployment benefits rose more than expected last week while the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia said its index of business conditions in the U.S. mid-Atlantic region fell in February to minus 12.5, the lowest in eight months.
"The Philly Fed report was troublingly weak, and adds to concerns about whether growth will remain up," said Brad Sorensen, director of market and sector analysis at Charles Schwab in Denver. "The only growth we're seeing is sluggish."
Wall Street falls on weak data in retreat from rally: Thomson Reuters Business News - MSN Money
The reality is, we're going to see ups & downs along with a stagnant economy for years to come. It's been over 4 years now already...my how time flies by!!
We should have taken our medicine in the beginning...let it hit bottom and then seen a true recovery. Instead we tried to "Keynesian" our way out and of course unless you continually deficit spend, you get this crap as well as a huge debt for future generations.
If that's true, then it lends to the theory that the current economic climate benefits the professional investors even more than usual. If economic stagnation generates market volatility, the pros will be reading, trading and planning their market moves on a real-time basis day-to-day. They can sell high and buy low, riding the waves. These are the workers for the Investor Class.
What separates them from the middle class investors wh do so with financial planners and 401ks is that they can and will take advantage of the volatility. The guy working in a hospital or restaraunt (service economy workers) will not be able to trade in response to this type of market, and never have been. They don't have the time between kids, work, fixing the house, mowing the lawn, etc. By the time their stock drops, it's too late and their advisors are telling hem to "hang tough" and wait for their stocks to rebound. They can't compete with those who are managing their millions or billions all day long or having an expensive brokerage house doing it for them and texting them in real time about their recommendations.
That's the difference between your worker bee investors and the Owners who have exponentially superior systems and access at their disposal.
As soon as the recession started, I thought we should let real estate find it's natural bottom as well as doing the same for our entire economy mainly because artificially inflating our economy is what started this whole mess. So we know doing the same thing can't fix it.
Just plain old common sense Rhodie!!
Like IcyPat wrote recently...."Americans used to be tough, now we're all soft". One way or another, we will pay the price eventually. Spending above our means for decades isn't exactly a bright thing to do.
Day-trading or micro-trading isn't an easy way to make money. Even with all the hyper-fast computers they have at their disposal. But I agree, our wealthy have access to far more information than people like you & I.
The stock market is a place where middle class Americans help the wealthy get wealthier. No doubt about it. Hey, I'm the one who said I'd be ok with getting rid of public corporations and the stock market....you game wistah?
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