5/24 OTA Observations

[sieglo]

Why is Ebner working with the medical staff?

I am guessing it's because he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I say he'd pull it were it necessary, but why is it? Need somebody at #3 even a seeming KOC Release 2.0. But with a healthy Hoyer why waste team effort bring in some castoff to be #3 vs rolling the dice on The Hammer "getting it". That said I don't think any of us really view OTA misfires as indicating much. I'm eager to see how Mallet does at camp in person and in exhibition games this summah.

Only by then if he doesn't show improvement you may find yourself lacking that someone at #3 to be poised to become the #2 by this time next season. And not because they aren't facing competition for the job (which is kind of what transpired with KOC who landed the #2 position by default in 2008 and early 2009 where it turned out he couldn't fend off another UDFA). There is no one ahead of or behind Mallett on the roster in 2013 at this point since Hoyer will be gone. And there is no one behind him since we don't have another developmental QB as even Gutz was (again by default since he'd lost his roster spot before Brady went down) on the roster even earmarked for PS duty could he not stick on the roster... Which means (hypothetically) we could be not only in the market for a #3 QB next season, we could be desperate for a viable #2 come OTA's in 2013.

It will be interesting to see if they don't pick up a camp arm to ramp up competition within the unit in the next 4-6 weeks. They did that with Gutierrez in 2008, drafting KOC even as the media raved about how much they loved Gutz work ethic. They brought in KOC to ramp up competition and despite predictions that it signnaled the demise of Matt Cassel it actually signaled the demise of Matt Gutierrez. Because he hadn't developed and facing roster spot competition he even regressed. But better to find that out before they did something stupid like cutting Cassel, as most fans and mediots (present company excluded) believed they should and would.

 

[signbabybrady]

Why are we so concerned about the 3rd QB in 2013 during 2012 OTAs?

Seems a little odd. We can deal with that next offseason or next draft.

2013 QBs of Brady, Mallet, and Any Vet signing or draft pick seems about the same talent at the position as we have had for a decade. And if come time for Hoyer to move on this doesnt seem true then the Vet FA or draft pick just becomes more of a priority but still plenty of time to deal with it then.

 

[Ring 6]

He didn't "propose" anything. There's no positive declaration, only a query based on a hypothetical. The fact that the evidence used to support said hypothetical is limited based on sample size isn't particularly relevant.

Sure he did. He proposed a scenario based upon the report of essentially one pass in an offseason practice. He in fact said his 'strugles set up an interesting hypothetical'.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why are we so concerned about the 3rd QB in 2013 during 2012 OTAs?

Seems a little odd. We can deal with that next offseason or next draft.

1.) It's a slow time of year. The silly season, part one, just ended, so I don't really see a problem here. It's just a hypothetical based upon a couple of bad passes in May. It's not a "Trade Brady" thread.

2.) If the Patriots think Mallet isn't going to be capable moving forward, dealing with that as next year's problem would put the team in a very vulnerable position next year.

2013 QBs of Brady, Mallet, and Any Vet signing or draft pick seems about the same talent at the position as we have had for a decade. And if come time for Hoyer to move on this doesnt seem true then the Vet FA or draft pick just becomes more of a priority but still plenty of time to deal with it then.

I'm not sure what you're basing this on, since Mallet's not shown anything, good or bad, on the field to this point. Cassel had shown ability in that Miami game, just to point to a recent backup situation. Going back even more, there were teams with Flutie as the QB3, with Testaverde and Huard around, etc...

 

[Frezo]

1.) It's a slow time of year. The silly season, part one, just ended, so I don't really see a problem here. It's just a hypothetical based upon a couple of bad passes in May. It's not a "Trade Brady" thread.

The next OTA the media has access to is on May 31st. After that we'll have 100% more info to base informed opinions on. It should be enough to straighten out the QB situation.

 

[Deus Irae]

The next OTA the media has access to is on May 31st. After that we'll have 100% more info to base informed opinions on. It should be enough to straighten out the QB situation.

Good point. Maybe the hypothetical should have waited a week.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

The next OTA the media has access to is on May 31st. After that we'll have 100% more info to base informed opinions on. It should be enough to straighten out the QB situation.

Maybe it's time for the OTA progress relationship/analysis system.

I wish these observation guys would point out who the coaches are yelling at.

 

[Frezo]

Good point. Maybe the hypothetical should have waited a week.

Well when silly season part two gets here, we can start speaking hypodermicly. (spell check hates that word)

 

[Deus Irae]

Well when silly season part two gets here, we can start speaking hypodermicly. (spell check hates that word)

When silly season part two gets here, we'll probably be treated to the likes of "With Ebert looking good at OTAs, should we trade Welker for future draft picks?", "Mallet's ready, let's trade Brady!" and "Wilfork's old, could we get a first and Dan Cody" from Baltimore for him?".

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Why are we so concerned about the 3rd QB in 2013 during 2012 OTAs?

Seems a little odd. We can deal with that next offseason or next draft.

2013 QBs of Brady, Mallet, and Any Vet signing or draft pick seems about the same talent at the position as we have had for a decade. And if come time for Hoyer to move on this doesnt seem true then the Vet FA or draft pick just becomes more of a priority but still plenty of time to deal with it then.

Only what if we can't... Again, not many late round or UDFA QB's even make it as viable backups let alone in their first season as Hoyer did or second as Cassel did. And the market for veteran and/or jag experienced and unsuccessful former starting QB's is tight and increasingly costly. Last year the Colts found that out the hard way carrying a backup who couldn't and signing the corpse of Kerry Collins for $4M to replace Peyton Manning at whopping position cost of almost $33M. Tom's cap hit alone next season and the season thereafter (barring an extension) is $21M... After Brady's restructure and Hoyer's tender the position is costing us $10.6M against the cap this season...

Some recent 2012 veteran backup signings include Henne at $6.75M for 2 years with $3M in signing bonus, Orton for 3 years at $10.5M with $5M in signing bonus, Jason Campbell at $3.5M for one year with $2M in signing bonus, Tebow traded for with $2.5M in salary due this season plus the draft pick and reimbursed salary advance, Hasselback in the second year of his deal making $5.5M in 2012, unless of course you'd be interested in the guys probably making a million or less like Carr and Lienart... Unlike the FA talent pool for most position players, talent availability at the QB position is generally no bargain...

 

[Frezo]

Maybe it's time for the OTA progress relationship/analysis system.

I wish these observation guys would point out who the coaches are yelling at.

Excellent! We can keep membership informed of a poster's threat level based on DEFCON. Defensive Evaluation For Constantly Oppresive Nabobs.

DEFCON 1 = Oh that's just silly
DEFCON 2 = I smell a rat
DEFCON 3 = Open the silos
DEFCON 4 = Head for the bunkers (pop the popcorn)
DEFCON 5 = Launch all missiles!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I certainly don't, and we're talking about just one OTA anyway, which is why I put 'struggles' in the single quotations. Realistically, a few stray passes and an INT in one OTA is meaningless. I just thought it set up an interesting hypothetical. I'm glad I posted it, too, because it got me to thinking about the exhibition games, and how they might have more import this year because of the new limits on offseason activities.

Yes I noticed hypothetical which I think Andy missed

EDIT: I see in a later post, he didn't

 

[Dago]

Only what if we can't... Again, not many late round or UDFA QB's even make it as viable backups let alone in their first season as Hoyer did or second as Cassel did. And the market for veteran and/or jag experienced and unsuccessful former starting QB's is tight and increasingly costly. Last year the Colts found that out the hard way carrying a backup who couldn't and signing the corpse of Kerry Collins for $4M to replace Peyton Manning at whopping position cost of almost $33M. Tom's cap hit alone next season and the season thereafter (barring an extension) is $21M... After Brady's restructure and Hoyer's tender the position is costing us $10.6M against the cap this season...

Some recent 2012 veteran backup signings include Henne at $6.75M for 2 years with $3M in signing bonus, Orton for 3 years at $10.5M with $5M in signing bonus, Jason Campbell at $3.5M for one year with $2M in signing bonus, Tebow traded for with $2.5M in salary due this season plus the draft pick and reimbursed salary advance, Hasselback in the second year of his deal making $5.5M in 2012, unless of course you'd be interested in the guys probably making a million or less like Carr and Lienart... Unlike the FA talent pool for most position players, talent availability at the QB position is generally no bargain...

we will die all!!!:bricks:

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes I noticed hypothetical which I think Andy missed

EDIT: I see in a later post, he didn't

:confused2:

I didn't know he'd posted on the topic. I just looked at it as an interesting hypothetical question to pose moving forward, because Hoyer's in the RFA year of his deal and will be UFA next year.

 

[signbabybrady]

1.) It's a slow time of year. The silly season, part one, just ended, so I don't really see a problem here. It's just a hypothetical based upon a couple of bad passes in May. It's not a "Trade Brady" thread.

Valid point

2.) If the Patriots think Mallet isn't going to be capable moving forward, dealing with that as next year's problem would put the team in a very vulnerable position next year.

And this can be asked of Molewisrocks as well but assuming they were to give up on Mallet for someone else now what are you honestly going to get now that you cant similarly get next offseason?

I'm not sure what you're basing this on, since Mallet's not shown anything, good or bad, on the field to this point. Cassel had shown ability in that Miami game, just to point to a recent backup situation. Going back even more, there were teams with Flutie as the QB3, with Testaverde and Huard around, etc...

A Flutie, Testaverde, or Huard type is exactly the kind of guy I was saying you could probably find next offseason worst case scenario you draft a guy even higher then the third round you got Mallet or O'Connell in and make an even more solid investment at some point you will be looking for QB1 and not just a back up.

Also Cassell had more then his share of struggles as a back up.

 

[Deus Irae]

And this can be asked of Molewisrocks as well but assuming they were to give up on Mallet for someone else now what are you honestly going to get now that you cant similarly get next offseason?

A player with a year in the system.

A Flutie, Testaverde, or Huard type is exactly the kind of guy I was saying you could probably find next offseason worst case scenario you draft a guy even higher then the third round you got Mallet or O'Connell in and make an even more solid investment at some point you will be looking for QB1 and not just a back up.

How many Flutie/Testaverde types were available this year? How many Huard types? How many of both types project to be available next year? These are questions that matter under the hypo, IMO.

Also Cassell had more then his share of struggles as a back up.

I don't know how you can make this claim. The Miami game was the only one he started. Outside of that, he threw a total of 19 passes in 3 seasons.

 

[Ron Sellers]

In other semi-OTA-related news, Tracy White had sports hernia surgery.

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: The Blitz»» Source: Tracy White recovering from sports hernia surgery

Patriots linebacker Tracy White hasn’t been participating in OTAs because he’s recovering from sports hernia surgery, according to a source.

White played through the injury during the tail end of last season, and he had to have it repaired. White is expected to be ready in time for training camp, but they’re taking a cautious approach with the offseason recovery process.

White earned some defensive snaps with the Patriots last year, but he’s primarily been a key special teams contributor. He was second on the Pats with 14 total special teams tackles and 11 solo stops in 2011. He also finished second with 18 total special teams tackles in 2010.​

 

[Triumph]

The whole Ocho Cinco saga just saddens me. I know a lot of you guys wanted him to fail ,Lord knows why. He seemed genuinely happy to be a part of the team I love,it was refreshing after the way Moss left. Just sad it hasn't worked out.

You would be happy too if somebody just gave you 6 mil guaranteed. Stink is partly responsible for the Patriots losing the Super Bowl.

Gronk was hobbled and the Pats needed a WR to step up. Stink was given plenty of time to learn the offense and plenty of money to be that guy.

Its rumored that Marvin Lewis and some Bengals coaches laughed like hell when they heard that NE was planning to run precise routes with this axxclown.

 

[RayClay]

Come on guys. Really?

You're right, we should give Chad more time to learn the system. It's not like we have a ton of veteran receivers who have the system down...

Oh wait, we do!

Byeeee.:bricks: