4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here [merged 10x]

[AllstonPatsFan]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

After having some time to digest this, I have two thoughts:

1 - I'm not afraid of playing in Indy in the playoffs.
2 - We only have to beat Indy once. Let's make it happen in January.

 

[bostonia3333]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I know I am in the minority here, but I think it was a good but unbelievably gutsy call by BB.


You get to that situation, you start thinking, hmmm what has hurt this team in the AFCCG and Super Bowl? Our defense and the fact that they can't put pressure on the qb--BB wanted the game to come down to his best player, Tom Brady, and he wanted him to put his imprint on the game. Let's play the percentages here based on how gassed both defenses were.

Pats chances of converting a 4th and 2=90% ish. Pats usually convert these 2 yders like they are nothing.

Colts chances of scoring a TD from your 30=100% ish

Colts chances of scoring a TD from their own 20 or 50(b/c of Hanson's ineptitude)=80% ish

 

[rainmaker]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

The safety makes it a 4 pt lead so same as 6pts. But takes a few more seconds off the clock and removes the risk of a punt block. Also prefer to put our hands in Ghosts hands than our punter.

Too much time on the clock to do that. It would have made no difference for it to be a punt to the 75 or a kickback (assuming we got that).

 

[Seymour93]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Belichick himself didn't have a coherent strategy.

If he wanted to cede the TD he could have and given Brady more time. He didn't do this, he even wasted time stopping Addai at the goal line.

BB did not tackle Addai at the one, Wilhite did. It was more of a natural instinct move on Wilhite's part IMO. When Wilhite sees the RB running towards him, he's going to tackle him.

I'm sure if BB knew in advance that if Addai would break a 15 yard run and that Wilhite was the last man standing in between Addai and the endzone, BB would tell Wilhite to give up in that situation.

 

[letekro]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Going for it was the right call. But when they didn't get it, they should've let indy score. Doing one but not the other is logically inconsistent. They only way to win these games is to have the ball last. We should've let them score and given TB 1:45 to get into FG range. No doubt in my mind he would've done it.

 

[Koma]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

If it was up to me, I would have punted. Then again, I would have drafted Gholston.

I can understand the decision to go for it. If they convert, the game is effectively over. I also understand how gassed the defensive line was and how dangerous Manning is in those situations.

The thing is, the Colts would still have had to drive 70 yards for for the winning TD. A missed block, a tipped pass, a miscommunication on a route all could have led to a game sealing turnover. There are more chances for something like that to happen on a 70 yard drive than on a 30 yard drive.

Even with the immortal Austin Collie able to draw a key PI call on the drive before, I still would have given the defense a long field to defend and taken my chances that way.

 

[letekro]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

BB did not tackle Addai at the one, Wilhite did. It was more of a natural instinct move on Wilhite's part IMO. When Wilhite sees the RB running towards him, he's going to tackle him.

I'm sure if BB knew in advance that if Addai would break a 15 yard run and that Wilhite was the last man standing in between Addai and the endzone, BB would tell Wilhite to give up in that situation.

I think you're right, but what if he had told them before the series started to let them score? Yes, this may be highly uncoventional, but which would you prefer:

Option 1: down 1, with the ball and 1:45 to get a FG OR
Option 2: Up 6, with Peyton Manning 30 yds away?

I think we can all agree that option 1 is preferable, so why not just let them score? You could say that would harm the D's collective ego, but who cares? I'm sure they would've gotten over it.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I can understand the decision to go for it. If they convert, the game is effectively over. I also understand how gassed the defensive line was and how dangerous Manning is in those situations.

The thing is, the Colts would still have had to drive 70 yards for for the winning TD. A missed block, a tipped pass, a miscommunication on a route all could have led to a game sealing turnover. There are more chances for something like that to happen on a 70 yard drive than on a 30 yard drive.

Even with the immortal Austin Collie able to draw a key PI call on the drive before, I still would have given the defense a long field to defend and taken my chances that way.

But all those things could go wrong on a punt, a bad punt, a blocked punt, a good return. The way the refs called that PI all Manning had to do was find a one on one, throw it to that guy and if he doesnt catch it hope for the PI call.

 

[Patspsycho]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

The safety makes it a 4 pt lead so same as 6pts. But takes a few more seconds off the clock and removes the risk of a punt block. Also prefer to put our hands in Ghosts hands than our punter.

If there were 30 seconds left, this would be absolutely the right move.

But two minutes is too much time, it doesn't matter where you spot the ball on the field; two minutes is plenty of time to drive it down.

Good thought, though.

 

[Seymour93]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I think you're right, but what if he had told them before the series started to let them score? Yes, this may be highly uncoventional, but which would you prefer:

Option 1: down 1, with the ball and 1:45 to get a FG OR
Option 2: Up 6, with Peyton Manning 30 yds away?

I think we can all agree that option 1 is preferable, so why not just let them score? You could say that would harm the D's collective ego, but who cares? I'm sure they would've gotten over it.

Personally I would rather us at least try to stop Manning than let them score from the 30.

 

[PatriotWarrior]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Most coaches would of punted the ball. I still feel the Pats got cheated by the Colts refs again. Faulk caught the ball and got enough for the 1st down. I know what I saw.

 

[BradyFTW!]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

i dont mind bill going for it on 4th down....

what i do mind is going shotgun, and passing it

we should have ran it twice w/ lomo...even a power set, even not i dont care

but we should have ran it twice, w/ lomo, and i bet we convert both times


really? 2 yards to go, game on the line, and u pass? we arnt going anywhere like that....we should have ran it down their throats

Agree on every point. Contenders can run for 2 yards when they have to. Apparently the Pats aren't a contender

 

[letekro]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Personally I would rather us at least try to stop Manning than let them score from the 30.

You're honestly telling me that you wouldn't rather have the ball with 1:45 needing only a FG? I find that hard to believe. I would EXPECT Brady to get it done in that situation. On the other hand, I would have been SHOCKED if our D had stopped Manning in that spot.

 

[letekro]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Agree on every point. Contenders can run for 2 yards when they have to. Apparently the Pats aren't a contender

The juxtaposition of the bold, bad-a** call to go for it and the ****y footing, meek playcall was particularly striking.

 

[AllstonPatsFan]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Most coaches would of punted the ball. I still feel the Pats got cheated by the Colts refs again. Faulk caught the ball and got enough for the 1st down. I know what I saw.

I think the pass interference where Butler had position, was turned to the ball, and made attempt at the ball and yet was called for interference was much worse. I understand why the ball was spotted where it was. Shame on us for not having the timeout left to challenge it.

 

[PatmanFever]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I don't know why everyone is bit***ng about the call. It sure looks like Faulk made the first down. That was a horrible spot.

 

[Seymour93]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Agree on every point. Contenders can run for 2 yards when they have to. Apparently the Pats aren't a contender

I don't think anybody can argue that the playcalling was poor on those two plays. I always hate it when any team, let alone the Pats, can't get in an I-formation and run the ball on 3rd and short, 4th and short.

The question is did BB lose faith in Maroney to keep hold of the ball? Or for the o-line to be able to run block? More than likely they did not intend on going for 4th down initially. If they would've intended on going for 4th down all along then I think the playcalling would've been different but we'll never know.

 

[Seymour93]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

You're honestly telling me that you wouldn't rather have the ball with 1:45 needing only a FG? I find that hard to believe. I would EXPECT Brady to get it done in that situation. On the other hand, I would have been SHOCKED if our D had stopped Manning in that spot.

I would've been surprised if the defense held out, but there comes a point where you have to have some dignity. Letting them score without any resistance whatsoever from the 30 would've been a cowardly act and probably would've had consequences for the young defense down the road. Now when it became clear that Addai was going to score unless Wilhite intervened, I don't have a problem with Wilhite giving up. But for the entire unit to give up at the 30 would've left me ashamed, even if we went on to win the game.

 

[alamo]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

The "he didn't trust the D" argument is so obvious that I believe it's wrong.

Belichick has more and more been trending towards going for it on 4th down even if failure makes things tough on the D.
This tells me:

1) He sees an overall positive return in going for the 4th down, because success is likely and has very positive consequences and that outweighs the consequences of failure.

2) He trusts the D to be able to hold if needed due to failure.

3) He places huge trust in Brady and his offence.

Interestingly enough, the NBC people and the local media hated the move, but many of the players I've seen interviewed plus NFL Network (Deon Sanders) agreed with it and respected Belichick for it.

Ultimately, most media (especially local media) doesn't have enough intelligence or imagination to adequately assess risktaking that goes against the common practice.

 

[letekro]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I would've been surprised if the defense held out, but there comes a point where you have to have some dignity. Letting them score without any resistance whatsoever from the 30 would've been a cowardly act and probably would've had consequences for the young defense down the road. Now when it became clear that Addai was going to score unless Wilhite intervened, I don't have a problem with Wilhite giving up. But for the entire unit to give up at the 30 would've left me ashamed, even if we went on to win the game.

I would rather be "ashamed" and win, then "dignified" and lose. And I'm pretty sure the team would feel the same.