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4 superbowls & 19-0 or 5 superbowls?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Truck, Nov 11, 2007.

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  1. Truck

    Truck Rookie

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    Alot of ppl have been asking the question..do you go for 16-0 or do you win the superbowl...but the fact is those two options aren't mutually exclusive. The probability of brady being injured in the 4th quarter of game 16, or at anytime in game 16 is probably less than 0.5%

    Anyways, my question is...
    Would you rather have won last year's superbowl, then this season go 14-2 (or 15-1), and won a 5th superbowl...Or would you rather have lost last year and go 19-0 this season (4 superbowls)?

    In one case, you've cemented yourself as the greatest dynasty in football, and this year's team is a contender for best team ever.
    In the other case, you're vying for the greatest dynasty, and this year's team is the clear frontrunner in greatest team ever discussions.

    In my opinion, if we had won the superbowl last year, we'd still sign stallworth & moss (since both were bargains); but we might not have pursued Welker & Thomas (since we would've felt last year's team was adequate to win again)...And without Welker & Thomas, I think our chance of going 16-0 are greatly reduced (we probably lose to Indy without Welker, or without Moss).

    Given the choices, I'd go with 19-0. Sure, losing the AFC game last season after such a huge lead sucked...But to me it really didn't hurt alot...Not close to as much as Red Sox - Yankees in 99, 03 (was too young for 86). We've had 3 championships...We've gotten lucky this decade..We were lucky to beat SD (and SD was dumb)...And I knew we'd still have great teams going forward...Now if we had no championships, that game might have been the worst moment in boston sports, since we'd let our one shot slip away...

    Given we've done the championship thing (& quite possibly will do it again in future years with this core)...19-0 brings an element that would more than make up for last year's loss.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2007
  2. patriotsdynasty12189

    patriotsdynasty12189 Rookie

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    5 superbowls without a doubt. 5 superbowls in 6 years would be a feat that probably would never happen again. Undefeated would probably happen before that.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2007
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    It's all about Super Bowls - at the end of the day nothing else can be discussed as a viable comparison. However . . . given X Super Bowls, an undefeated season would be a ridiculously amazing icing on the cake.
  4. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    It would be 5 in 7 years, but yes, still a feat.

    But I'll say 4 Super Bowls and the record. I love records, and I absolutely hate the Dolphins and that ******* loser Aqua.
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The reason they play this game is to get another superbowl, the 19-0 is nice, but the SB is nicer.
  6. PaulThePat

    PaulThePat Rookie

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    For me this is a no brainer...give me another Superbowl every time :rocker:
  7. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Why does this site just seem like frontrunners sometimes?
  8. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #18 Jersey

    What do you mean?
  9. nowayback

    nowayback Rookie

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    buffalo first :D
  10. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    I don't understand why people look at a perfect season as so minor. I know no one's saying its useless; but so often its called unimportant or less important a thing to go for. The way I see it is that while the Pats (as the best team statistically) may only have a decent chance at winning the Superbowl this year, its a 100% mortal lock that someone will win it. Even after that disastrous and embarrassing mess between Pittsburgh and Seattle they still handed out a trophy at the end to the least suckyest team. 50 years from now they'll have awarded another 50 Superbowl trophies. Its very much possible that nobody at all will have gone undefeated in that same time.
  11. oldrover

    oldrover Rookie

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    Many consider the 85 Bears the best team of all time. They lost a game.

    I'll take maximum SB wins please. :)
  12. italian pat patriot

    italian pat patriot Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    intriguing question...
    i do not know... but if i am 'obliged' to reply i go for 5 Super Bowls

    but, i admit, i would love to see the Pats 19-0 (expecially this season...)
  13. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Erasing Dungy & Manning's only SB would be priceless. I'd take the 5 rings any day.
  14. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    A Patriot 19 - 0 perfect season would be THE creme de la creme for this dynasty and would set them apart from the rest in historical terms.
    Don't think people appreciate just how difficult and awe inspiring a task this is. Give me the perfect season and 4 SB's!
    What's scary is they're far from finished. :rocker:
  15. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    I overlooked the 'taking Manning's away' factor, that changes everything.
  16. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ask any one of these players or their HC and they will tell you there is little they wouldn't have traded for that 4th ring in 6 seasons. If they go 16-0 which is the new record and somehow stumble down the stretch it will be from their perspective the most hollow record of all and one they would likely not care to be reminded of. It's the cherry on the sundae with a ring, but they'll take theirs without if the option is another guaranteed ring on the side.

    I think because of the way this team had to grind all last season you would have seen most of these changes anyway. AD for sure because this defense had long been in need of another top tier LB. Welker for sure because he is the replacement for Troy Brown going forward. Stallworth and Moss because they were great value deals.

    One of the things that many here don't grasp, perhaps because they don't live here and hear a lot of the commentary that is made locally, is Bill learned something about this core team in 2006 that he didn't really anticipate coming off an 11-5 season. That despite some serious shortcomings that were not at all of their own making this team was poised to win anyway through sheer force of will. He was thereafter going to reward that effort with talented reinforcements win or lose because he realized with this core still in place and in fact finally growing, they would insure those additions would more than provide value for Mr. Kraft's money.

    Which is why I also believe BOTH Stallworth and Moss will be back, as will at least one if not both of Asante and Gay unless either or both are determined to persue maximum FA money. In which case neither is truly a good fit for this team since persuit of the ring and a willingness to sacrifice for it has to trump persuit of the $$$ even if only by a hair or you don't necessarily have what he wants down the stretch when you frankly have no business being up by 21 in an AFCC. What stung fans and players was that they lost that game by one or two plays. What stung the builder deeply was they almost didn't lose it even woefully undermanned.
  17. godef

    godef Rookie

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    These questions drive me crazy...

    WHY NOT BOTH??? :cool:

    Hell, how about TWO 19-0's and 7 Super Bowls?
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2007
  18. oville41

    oville41 Rookie

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    Godef, your wisdom shines through as always. What a ridiculous proposition, its like the devil coming to you and saying, "would you like to win the powerball for a $100 million, but you can only live for a year?" OR "would you like to work for the next 20 years, struggle to pay your bills, and squeek out 20 years of retirement on a pitance of a pension?" Come, on make a choice.

    My answer, give me the $100 million with 40 more healthy years.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2007
  19. Truck

    Truck Rookie

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    Yes, this team will not be limited at 4 (hopefully). But in that case, the question still stands. Would you rather have 16-0, or +1 championships. Obviously 19-0 is not a guarantee, and you can't change the past; but the question essentially is, if you were given the two options prior to last season, which would you pick.

    And I completely agree, 16-0 without the superbowl is a meaningless record. 16-1,17-1,18-1 does not make this team the greatest all time. It makes them a great team that failed when it counted. The 49ers, Cowboys, Dolphins, and 04 Patriots would be seen higher on the pole.

    As someone mentioned before, a superbowl winner occurs every year. An undefeated season hasn't happenned in the last 30 years. The undefeated season is harder to accomplish than consecutive superbowls (there's been alot more of those).

    And I believe at some point there is a diminishing returns on joy you receive from superbowl championships. If the team won 10 in a row, would the 10th be as joyous as the first (maybe Bill Russell Celtics fans can share their insight)? Highly unlikely cuz at that point it becomes the expectation. The pain from not winning is greater than the joy of maintaining the status quo. The undefeated season brings the superbowl victory to a whole new level. No more "they only win by 3", "they got lucky", "the better team didn't win", etc etc.
    Now if I factor in the joy received from "Manning is still a choker", I might go for the extra superbowl.

    But this season could serve as giving the team, Brady, BB, the "Best ever" tag. And another win next year or the year after gives this core the "Best Dynasty tag".
  20. mojocaster.com

    mojocaster.com Rookie

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    Let me be as clear as I can be. I couldn't care less about 19-0. In this league it's all about the Lombardi trophy. Period.
  21. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    There's no way this team is this good if we had won the SB last year. No way.

    And the '06 squad would have definitely been the black sheep of our championship herd.

    I'd rather get #4 with one of (if not THE) greatest teams in NFL history.
  22. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    some of you guys are all wet.

    The reason that we didn't improve last year was that we were up against the CAP. There was no money. not any ****amamie idea that we were good enough or didn't need the improvements or any other weird ideas.

    The reason we added all these players in FA and via trade, was that this year we HAD the CAP money room this offseason.

    Geez, You guys dream up the weirdest ideas I have ever heard for why the Pats FO does things or doesn't do them, when th obvious answer is starring you in the face.;) ;)
  23. Aldogg

    Aldogg Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    19-0 and 4 Bowls.

    While 5 Bowls would be nice, last year's team was not a Super Bowl team, and would be looked at maybe as a worse team than the 2001 team. If we win last year, there is no guarantee we win this year. Why would we try to get a Moss or a Stallworth when we won with Caldwell and Gaffney? Maybe we still get AD because we needed LB help, but I can't see us being aggressive at the WR position if we won it last year, getting Moss, Stallworth and Welker, maybe going for another, lesser name to put into the slot with Caldwell and Gaffney, so there was a chance we would have peaked at 4 rings and be struggling this year. Plus, how many undefeated teams have there been in NFL history? There has been one. How many Super Bowl winners are there? 41, and a new one every year. There are reasons why people still talk about the 1972 Dolphins to this day. To me, that is a much more elite company to join.
  24. Disco Volante

    Disco Volante Rookie

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    Haha, who would have thought in 2007 we'd be having such topics. 16-0 or Super Bowl, 19-0/4 or 5 Super Bowls?

    Got to love being a fan right now. :D
  25. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Lord have mercy, I found something I am in 100% agreement with godef over...

    These sorts of asinine questions are what I call the ESPNification of sports. It's an absoulutely absurd hypothetical because there's nothing in option 1 (19-0) that precludes option 2 (5 SB's). In fact, if anything, succeeding in option 1 will help succeed in option 2.

    It's just a painfully manufactured hypothetical meant to fill space on shows like ATH, PTI and SC and it is silly to talk about it in terms of having to "choose" between one or the other.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2007
  26. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot Rookie

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    How about we just beat Buffalo first?

    All of these scenarios....do you want to win 7 or 8 SBs? Or would you rather have Brady throw 60 TDs go undefeated but not make the SB?...they're getting a little ridiculous.

    NOTHING is gauranteed folks.
  27. Disco Volante

    Disco Volante Rookie

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    It's a bye week. Looking ahead is fun sometimes.

    Rest assured though everyone on here is focused on Buffalo next week.
  28. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    All I can think of is a little brat who gets a new bike and throws a fit because he didn't get a Nintendo.

    Last time I checked, we actually have to play a few NFL teams before we are handed our rightful crown as the greatest sports team in the history of the universe.:rolleyes:
  29. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I'm with you. It reminds me of the musings of famous loser teams.

    The greatest show on turf?

    "Tonight a dynasty is born." - St. Louis Rams WR, Ricky Proehl

    Yeah, that was a good one.

    Sounds like the kind of talk I imagine in that 14-2 Chargers locker room last year.

    Golly gee willickers, do I want the unwashed masses to worship us as undefeated, or would I prefer to be anointed Super Bowl Champion every year.

    Decisions, decisions...
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