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3rd Down Defense


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6-19 on 3rd & 4th downs combined.

Which is to say that 6 of 14 3rd downs eventually converted.

Not sure that's the right way to logic it, but even by those numbers they're at 37.5%, which last year would have been 12th in the league. That's a 20 slot improvement. Go by the real numbers, 6 of 19, and it's 31.6%, better than any team in 2010.
 
14% is SOLID:)


I see all these %'s and I am happy to see the improvement. Let us hope this trend continues to get better
 
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3rd downs were good (and very much improved from last year) but 4th downs were disappointing imo. I found it odd that there was such a glaring disparity between the 2 stats.
 
Certainly promising, but like others have mentioned, the 4th down conversions were a little annoying. Can't fully go by 3rd down success when the Miami offense was playing 4 downs most of the game.

I give Henne a lot of credit for that performance last night. Hopefully, it's well deserved, and not par for the course going forward.
 
A problem I've always had with reading too much into 3rd down completion percentage is that it rewards defenses that are feast-or-famine on 1st and 2nd downs and can punish defenses that are more consistent.

The 2003 Pats had the best defense of the Brady-Belichek era, and were a respectable-but-not-superlative 7th in 3rd down conversions. Meanwhile, in that year, the #1 team in 3rd conversion %, the Tennessee Titans, were ranked 20th in yards allowed per game and 21st in points allowed per game. A telling factor in this: the Titans forced 184 3rd down attempts, the second lowest that year, while the Patriots forced a league-high 235 conversion attempts.

If you give up fewer first downs on 1st and 2nd down than other teams, you'll end up facing more 3rd down attempts, but they'll often be of the short-yardage variety. Still, you're better off forcing 6 conversion attempts in a drive and give them up at a 40% rate than you are forcing 2 conversion attempts and give them up at a 30% rate.

On Monday night, on the Dolphins' opening TD drive, the Pats forced 2 third-downs on an 84 yard drive. On the Dolphins' 3rd quarter FG, they allowed the Dolphins to go 87 yards before forcing a 3rd down try. So on the drives in which the Pats' D was on its heels, it managed to keep its pretty 3rd down rate by giving up too many 10+ yard plays on 1st and 2nd down.

Some of this almost certainly has to do with the change from the 3-4 to the 4-3 -- a defense based on penetration will force more negative plays and get into more 3rd and long plays, at the expense of the prodigious number of 3rd down tries the Pats' 3-4 defense has historically forced. It's a give-and-take.
 
I'm alot more concerned with opponents throwing on 1st down.....that's when henne was lights out.....

16 of 21 for 246 yards......

what about those drives that don't have any 3rd downs?

the dolphins got 2 first downs on 3rd down and 4 on 4th down.....that means they got 19 on 1st or 2nd down........ouch
 
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A problem I've always had with reading too much into 3rd down completion percentage is that it rewards defenses that are feast-or-famine on 1st and 2nd downs and can punish defenses that are more consistent.

The 2003 Pats had the best defense of the Brady-Belichek era, and were a respectable-but-not-superlative 7th in 3rd down conversions. Meanwhile, in that year, the #1 team in 3rd conversion %, the Tennessee Titans, were ranked 20th in yards allowed per game and 21st in points allowed per game. A telling factor in this: the Titans forced 184 3rd down attempts, the second lowest that year, while the Patriots forced a league-high 235 conversion attempts.

If you give up fewer first downs on 1st and 2nd down than other teams, you'll end up facing more 3rd down attempts, but they'll often be of the short-yardage variety. Still, you're better off forcing 6 conversion attempts in a drive and give them up at a 40% rate than you are forcing 2 conversion attempts and give them up at a 30% rate.

On Monday night, on the Dolphins' opening TD drive, the Pats forced 2 third-downs on an 84 yard drive. On the Dolphins' 3rd quarter FG, they allowed the Dolphins to go 87 yards before forcing a 3rd down try. So on the drives in which the Pats' D was on its heels, it managed to keep its pretty 3rd down rate by giving up too many 10+ yard plays on 1st and 2nd down.

Some of this almost certainly has to do with the change from the 3-4 to the 4-3 -- a defense based on penetration will force more negative plays and get into more 3rd and long plays, at the expense of the prodigious number of 3rd down tries the Pats' 3-4 defense has historically forced. It's a give-and-take.

These are good points... I'd like to see a breakdown of the 3rd down conversion stats. One for 5 yards or less, one for 6-10, and one for 10+. I think where we really were frustrated last year was the conversions on 3rd and 10+ yards.
 
A problem I've always had with reading too much into 3rd down completion percentage is that it rewards defenses that are feast-or-famine on 1st and 2nd downs and can punish defenses that are more consistent.

The 2003 Pats had the best defense of the Brady-Belichek era, and were a respectable-but-not-superlative 7th in 3rd down conversions. Meanwhile, in that year, the #1 team in 3rd conversion %, the Tennessee Titans, were ranked 20th in yards allowed per game and 21st in points allowed per game. A telling factor in this: the Titans forced 184 3rd down attempts, the second lowest that year, while the Patriots forced a league-high 235 conversion attempts.

If you give up fewer first downs on 1st and 2nd down than other teams, you'll end up facing more 3rd down attempts, but they'll often be of the short-yardage variety. Still, you're better off forcing 6 conversion attempts in a drive and give them up at a 40% rate than you are forcing 2 conversion attempts and give them up at a 30% rate.

On Monday night, on the Dolphins' opening TD drive, the Pats forced 2 third-downs on an 84 yard drive. On the Dolphins' 3rd quarter FG, they allowed the Dolphins to go 87 yards before forcing a 3rd down try. So on the drives in which the Pats' D was on its heels, it managed to keep its pretty 3rd down rate by giving up too many 10+ yard plays on 1st and 2nd down.

Some of this almost certainly has to do with the change from the 3-4 to the 4-3 -- a defense based on penetration will force more negative plays and get into more 3rd and long plays, at the expense of the prodigious number of 3rd down tries the Pats' 3-4 defense has historically forced. It's a give-and-take.
I don't think anyone is saying 3rd down conversions alone represent the quality of the defense. It's a factor, not the only factor.
 
I'm alot more concerned with opponents throwing on 1st down.....that's when henne was lights out.....

16 of 21 for 246 yards......

what about those drives that don't have any 3rd downs?

the dolphins got 2 first downs on 3rd down and 4 on 4th down.....that means they got 19 on 1st or 2nd down........ouch
Most of that happened after we had a big lead, which begs the question of whether it was poor D or purposefully soft D. We will find out soon enough.
 
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