3rd Down Defense

[Ring 6]

2-14 conversions

 

[tobias funke]

counterpoint: chad henne

 

[Fencer]

6-19 on 3rd & 4th downs combined.

Which is to say that 6 of 14 3rd downs eventually converted.

 

[Ring 6]

counterpoint: chad henne

For about 52 minutes the defense allowed 1 TD drive, 1 FG drive, a TD on a 10 yard field and nothing else.
The fact that when the game was out of hand and we played soft zone to make them take time off the clock in order to move the ball, and that led to a bunch of yards and 1 TD does not IMO overcome the fact that until the game was out of hand, the D played well.
Do we really care what kind of stats the other team puts up while hopelessly trying to get back in the game?
If they weren't in a desperation mode where they went for it 5 times on 4th down, many of those yards would not have happened, and guess what, it wouldn't matter either way.

 

[Sciz]

That's 14%. Best last year was 25%, I believe.

 

[tobias funke]

Do we really care what kind of stats the other team puts up while hopelessly trying to get back in the game?

I wasn't referring to stats. I'm simply pointing out that they did it against Chad Henne.

I'm firmly in the "the defense played very well, likely better than the yards allowed makes them look" camp, like it sounds you are as well.

I'm just looking forward to seeing them do it against someone with a reputation for playing well under pressure (i.e. anyone other than Chad ******* Henne).

 

[Ring 6]

I wasn't referring to stats. I'm simply pointing out that they did it against Chad Henne.

I'm firmly in the "the defense played very well, likely better than the yards allowed makes them look" camp, like it sounds you are as well.

I'm just looking forward to seeing them do it against someone with a reputation for playing well under pressure (i.e. anyone other than Chad ******* Henne).

Well thats the only guy they have faced, and 2-14 is outstanding, against anyone.
By the way the Henne-led Dolphins were 12th best in the NFL last year in 3rd down conversions at 40%.

 

[Sciz]

BTW, the Phins converted 66% and 30% in their two meetings last year.

 

[tobias funke]

The defensive play of the game for me was the crushing sack on Henne early in the 4th. It was really nice to see them get home on 3rd-down instead of 1st/2nd (followed by a long 3rd down conversion like usual).

Not to mention it was a particularly nasty hit.

 

[jmt57]

For about 52 minutes the defense allowed 1 TD drive, 1 FG drive, a TD on a 10 yard field and nothing else.

The fact that when the game was out of hand and we played soft zone to make them take time off the clock in order to move the ball, and that led to a bunch of yards and 1 TD does not IMO overcome the fact that until the game was out of hand, the D played well.

Do we really care what kind of stats the other team puts up while hopelessly trying to get back in the game?

If they weren't in a desperation mode where they went for it 5 times on 4th down, many of those yards would not have happened, and guess what, it wouldn't matter either way.

I agree; over the years I have come to wonder if some people comment about a game based on stats and not what they actually saw (or if they even watched).

In the first drive Miami had six first downs and then the TD; after that:

• 3 and out, punt
• 1 first down, punt
• 3 and out, punt
• 1 first down, punt
• kneel down, end of half
• 2 plays, TD; drive started on Pats' 9-yard line after pick
• 4 first downs, FG
• 3 and out, punt
• 3 and out, punt

At this point the Pats are up by 14 with 8 1/2 minutes to play:

• 3 first downs; Miami turns the ball over on downs

Now it's 38-17 with 5 1/2 minutes to play:

• 4 first downs; TD

One last possession, Miami down by 14 with 2:32 to go:

• 4 first downs; clock expires

In my opinion the final stats - specifically the yardage, first downs, number of plays and time of possession - are a bit deceiving regarding the Pats defense vs the Miami offense. Yes, the final outcome still could have gone either way well into the fourth quarter, but the Pats defense did much better than what the game stats show.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree; over the years I have come to wonder if some people comment about a game based on stats and not what they actually saw (or if they even watched).

In the first drive Miami had six first downs and then the TD; after that:

• 3 and out, punt
• 1 first down, punt
• 3 and out, punt
• 1 first down, punt
• kneel down, end of half
• 2 plays, TD; drive started on Pats' 9-yard line after pick
• 4 first downs, FG
• 3 and out, punt
• 3 and out, punt

At this point the Pats are up by 14 with 8 1/2 minutes to play:

• 3 first downs; Miami turns the ball over on downs

Now it's 38-17 with 5 1/2 minutes to play:

• 4 first downs; TD

One last possession, Miami down by 14 with 2:32 to go:

• 4 first downs; clock expires

In my opinion the final stats - specifically the yardage, first downs, number of plays and time of possession - are a bit deceiving regarding the Pats defense vs the Miami offense. Yes, the final outcome still could have gone either way well into the fourth quarter, but the Pats defense did much better than what the game stats show.

I think its OK to be concerned about those last 3 drives because there were plays we didn't make, and they did. But you have to take it into context and determine whether all of a sudden they figured out how to beat the defense, or whether it was situational football. No one seems to want to recognize that situational football also includes that if there are 8 minutes left in the game and I am up 2 TDs making you use the clock is to my advantage. When you have a lead if you 'let' the other team move the ball slowly and the result is they get close but don't have enough time to catch you, it WORKED. Now surely we would prefer to stop them, but instead of playing the scheme best suited to stopping them, we play the scheme best suited to either/or stop them, or force them to take a lot of time to get to the end zone.

If the game were tied, we would have played a different defense.

Only time will tell whether it was the ability of the players or the softness of the calls that allowed Miami to blow up the statsheet in 8 minutes.

One is cause for concern; the other is only cause for people who want to pound their chest about statistics.

 

[The Scrizz]

I wasn't referring to stats. I'm simply pointing out that they did it against Chad Henne.

I'm firmly in the "the defense played very well, likely better than the yards allowed makes them look" camp, like it sounds you are as well.

I'm just looking forward to seeing them do it against someone with a reputation for playing well under pressure (i.e. anyone other than Chad ******* Henne).

I think it's a little early to just **** on Henne. He had a good pre-season, and has a competent OC now. It's possible that he has both improved and is in a better system for his talents.

I saw a QB in charge of his offense last night and who played pretty well despite taking some big hits. I would take 2-14 against any QB in the NFL.

I'm serious when I say that Sanchez is the worst starting QB in the division right now.

 

[Ring 6]

I think it's a little early to just **** on Henne. He had a good pre-season, and has a competent OC now. It's possible that he has both improved and is in a better system for his talents.

I saw a QB in charge of his offense last night and who played pretty well despite taking some big hits. I would take 2-14 against any QB in the NFL.

I'm serious when I say that Sanchez is the worst starting QB in the division right now.

That was very arguable before Henne's apparent improvement.

 

[Tunescribe]

2-14 conversions

Yeah. And the Pats now are working from a true 4-3 base defense.

 

[The Scrizz]

At this point the Pats are up by 14 with 8 1/2 minutes to play:

• 3 first downs; Miami turns the ball over on downs

Now it's 38-17 with 5 1/2 minutes to play:

• 4 first downs; TD

One last possession, Miami down by 14 with 2:32 to go:

• 4 first downs; clock expires

In my opinion the final stats - specifically the yardage, first downs, number of plays and time of possession - are a bit deceiving regarding the Pats defense vs the Miami offense. Yes, the final outcome still could have gone either way well into the fourth quarter, but the Pats defense did much better than what the game stats show.

In between the drive where Miami turned it over on downs and the next where they got 4 1st downs and a TD the D was off the field for just 1 play because Brady and Welker had to be so friggin cute and break records.

On a night where half the Miami D looked like they were going to pass out any second it's possible that our guys were getting a little worn down out there too.

Then they were right back out there a minute later because we inexplicably don't run on a 3rd and 1 with under 3 minutes to go. The D never should have even had to go back out for that final stat-padding, nothing-burger of a drive.

As it was they were out there for 3 drives with a total of 1:14 seconds of rest in between them. Call it an excuse. I call it a factor.

 

[spacecrime]

Converting only 2 thirds downs in a game is good no matter what team you are facing.

 

[Betterthanmost]

For what it is worth, the Texans as of today have one mean looking 3rd Pct stat.
They played the Colts too. I guess we can say they have an improved secondary? lol

I am happy with this defense, I got a vibe from it that I did not get from last year's defense after the Bengals game. People were happy with that defense because of the many blitzes we employed at the beginning of that game.
This game on the other hand, our secondary were there, most of the catches were well contested. I am rather giving credit to Henne.

 

[tobias funke]

I think it's a little early to just **** on Henne. He had a good pre-season, and has a competent OC now. It's possible that he has both improved and is in a better system for his talents.

I don't think it's too early to point out that Henne is a relatively accurate QB who rarely makes clutch plays. Plays the Dolphins are going to need even more often now considering they probably don't have anything close to the running game they were used to.

I also don't think it's a bad thing to want to see the defense have a similar performance against a true elite offense before I crown them as 'most improved'.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah. And the Pats now are working from a true 4-3 base defense.

Well, actually I think we were in nickel for most of the game. The corners combined to play 226 snaps in 76 plays.

And of course 3rd down conversions isn't about the base D its about the sub package

 

[Fencer]

It was a good defensive performance. It wasn't a great one.

Whatever the excuses, points and yards added up, and only one drive started from Miami having been handed ridiculously good field position.

And other than on the no-time-left heave, the defense didn't get any takeaways.