3rd down and RZ stats

[nepatz11]

" A couple of bad statistics" Those are among the MOST important statistics in the game of football and we are at the bottom of the league in them. That is why we are 6-4! The fact that opposing QBs have a quarterback rating of 93 against us (which exceed TB's 4th all time high career QB rating) is why we are 6-4. I mean 93? That is terrible! How can you put a loss on Jabar Gaffney for one dropped pass and ignore disturbing numbers that were calculated from data taken from ten full games like that?


And by the way those stats come from a sample size of ten games. They are not cherry picked from individual games because they support your argument. Yeah we did good on red zone offense vs the Jets. And Yeah im sure you could cherry pick a few games where our red zone defense or 3rd down defense was not bad, but over the course of the season we have generally failed in those areas and that is why we are 6-4.

Telling me im wrong is no substitute for a fair argument. The fact is your position is redicoulous because it is as fair to say we are a couple of plays from 4-6 as it is to say we are a couple of plays from being 8-2. But no team gets every break and that is basically what you are arguing. As far as I see it your position is: "If the Patriots had gotten almost every break at the end of games then they would be 8-2."

Im saying that you need to look at the recurring weaknesses of this team to see why we were even in position to lose those games. You need to realize that even in games we won we could have lost because of those weaknesses but in those games we did get some breaks (think SF and St Louis).

that is why you are being myopic. Your looking at things from Patriots colored glasses. Every team in every close game can go back and point to a few plays here and say "see we should have won." But that is not why this team is 6-4.

Amazingly I am still optimistic about this team. They are a good team but they have some holes. I think if they win this week they can make a run because there is no dominant team this year. But To blame our present situation on bad luck when we are at the bottom of the league in some very very key categories or to call those statistics unimportant is just foolish. I wish we had stolen either the Indy or the Jets game but we didn't and the reasons we did not are clear and they have more to do with bad performance than bad luck.

 

[Deus Irae]

" A couple of bad statistics" Those are among the MOST important statistics in the game of football and we are at the bottom of the league in them. That is why we are 6-4! The fact that opposing QBs have a quarterback rating of 93 against us (which exceed TB's 4th all time high career QB rating) is why we are 6-4. I mean 93? That is terrible! How can you put a loss on Jabar Gaffney for one dropped pass and ignore disturbing numbers that were calculated from data taken from ten full games like that?

And by the way those stats come from a sample size of ten games. They are not cherry picked from individual games because they support your argument. Yeah we did good on red zone offense vs the Jets. And Yeah im sure you could cherry pick a few games where our red zone defense or 3rd down defense was not bad, but over the course of the season we have generally failed in those areas and that is why we are 6-4.

Telling me im wrong is no substitute for a fair argument. The fact is your position is redicoulous because it is as fair to say we are a couple of plays from 4-6 as it is to say we are a couple of plays from being 8-2. But no team gets every break and that is basically what you are arguing. As far as I see it your position is: "If the Patriots had gotten almost every break at the end of games then they would be 8-2."

Im saying that you need to look at the recurring weaknesses of this team to see why we were even in position to lose those games. You need to realize that even in games we won we could have lost because of those weaknesses but in those games we did get some breaks (think SF and St Louis).

that is why you are being myopic. Your looking at things from Patriots colored glasses. Every team in every close game can go back and point to a few plays here and say "see we should have won." But that is not why this team is 6-4.

Amazingly I am still optimistic about this team. They are a good team but they have some holes. I think if they win this week they can make a run because there is no dominant team this year. But To blame our present situation on bad luck when we are at the bottom of the league in some very very key categories or to call those statistics unimportant is just foolish. I wish we had stolen either the Indy or the Jets game but we didn't and the reasons we did not are clear and they have more to do with bad performance than bad luck.

The Dolphins loss had absolutely nothing to do with red zone offense or 3rd down defense. I've already pointed out the problems with the red zone/3rd down arguments in the Jets game, and the dropped TD by Gaffney in the Colts game was clearly the most significant play of the game. That means that in at least 3 of the 4 losses, the stats being argued about weren't the reason for the loss. The Chargers game, even according to the players who went on WEEI afterwards, hinged on the "and goal" series and the subsequent defensive failure, the "red zone/3rd down D" argument is only legitimate in 1 of the 4 losses.

In other words, the argument, while seeming to be persuasive on a stat sheet, fails when applied to the facts.

 

[stcjones]

I can't stand it when people say something like they are a dropped pass and a coin flip away from being 8-2. A jets fan could say the Jets were a picked up Dan Koppen fumble away from winning that game by 3 TDs.

Against Indy we dominated but the only reason it was a close game is because we had 5 good drives in that game and came away with only one TD and 3 FGS (Thomas's Penalty ended the other one). Indy Conversely had 3 good drives and got 2 TD's and a clock killing field goal drive which we couldn't stop. Yes we win still if Gaffney catches that pass but the point is it was a close game because we put ourselves in a position to lose because of our poor red zone offense, defense and inability to stop on third down even though we dominated.

Against the Jets same thing. The reason we were down so much is because we settled for FG's on the first two drives and the Jets took TD's. And we were in position to lose the coin flip because we let up a 14 play 8 minute TD drive in the 4th quarter where we couldnt get a stop, and couldnt even hold the Jets to a FG. And we lost in OT because we could not stop a 3rd and fifteen play.

The Pats put themselves in positions to lose games despite playing well and the reason is their third down defense stinks, their red zone offense stinks and their red zone defense stinks. Yeah we all know a certain measure of bad luck at the end of games helped us to lose but we should never have been in position to lose the games if we had made the plays earlier in the game we needed to make.

there are a fair amount of people on here who live in the shoulda/coulda/woulda world.....when the final gun sounds ....the score is WHAT it IS....

 

[nepatz11]

i agree the dolphins loss was due to sheer patheticness by the defense as was the san diego loss