3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Molk

[NinjaZX6R]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

I think Devon Still is able to generate a lot more pressure than Ty Warren ever did.

Ty Warren was a good player for us till the end of the 2008 season.

 

[VrabelJr]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

Ty Warren was a good player for us till the end of the 2008 season.

Yes but Ty Warren was a "stout" run stuffing 3-4 DE. Devon Still is of the vicious, penetrating type like Richard Seymour.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

Yes but Ty Warren was a "stout" run stuffing 3-4 DE. Devon Still is of the vicious, penetrating type like Richard Seymour.

I really don't see that from Still. I see a Ty version of him. Not Richard Seymour.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

I really don't see that from Still. I see a Ty version of him. Not Richard Seymour.

Same, but I don't think Cox fits the comparison to Warren. Cox is smaller, but in better shape and more athletic.

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

Cox is smaller...

So sad...

 

[VrabelJr]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

Every time I've watched Devon Still I've seen a pocket collapsing maniac. Maybe just the games I happened to watch, though.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

So sad...

It's not about length, its about core strength!!!

Every time I've watched Devon Still I've seen a pocket collapsing maniac. Maybe just the games I happened to watch, though.

Well, I've read he's inconsistent. Different games could definitely result in different opinions.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

Same, but I don't think Cox fits the comparison to Warren. Cox is smaller, but in better shape and more athletic.

New Fletcher Cox video

I think we'll be lucky to get him to be honest. Too much athleticism to fall to #27.

 

[patsderoer]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

New Fletcher Cox video

I think we'll be lucky to get him to be honest. Too much athleticism to fall to #27.

So Cox's best 3 games last season are all up on youtube, vs Kentucky, South Carolina, and Wake Forest. In these 3 games he recorded all his sacks (5 of 5) and the vast majority of his TFLs (9.5 out of 14.5). In the rest of the games (9), he didnt do much, no sacks and only 5 TFL.

His 5 sacks. 3 were cheap garbage sacks, those vs South Carolina and Wake Forest, where the QB had no one open, so he took off and run straight into Cox. Cox didnt beat his man to get to the QB, the QB ran straight into him.
The first of his sacks vs Kentucky, he beat his man and the QB run into him. I'll give him this sack as a clear sack.
The second of his sacks vs Kentucky, he was part of a heavy blitz that completely overwhelmed the Kentucky OLs. He had to beat no one to get to the QB.

Overhyped. Wolfe and Crick, in their best sacking year in college, both had almost twice (9.5sacks) than Cox in his best sacking year in college(5sacks). And of these 5 sacks, only once he did beat his man to get to the QB.

He played good in 3 games out of 12 last season, and he was completely mediocre the year before. Supposedly based on this he is a first round talent. Not for me. Guy cant get sacks unless the QB runs into him. That wont happen much against Brees, Eli, Rodgers and other great NFL QBs. He's not the answer to improving Pats pass rushing game.

I'll take Wolfe and Crick over him anyday. They know how to get to the QB twice as better than Cox.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

So Cox's best 3 games last season are all up on youtube, vs Kentucky, South Carolina, and Wake Forest. In these 3 games he recorded all his sacks (5 of 5) and the vast majority of his TFLs (9.5 out of 14.5). In the rest of the games (9), he didnt do much, no sacks and only 5 TFL.

His 5 sacks. 3 were cheap garbage sacks, those vs South Carolina and Wake Forest, where the QB had no one open, so he took off and run straight into Cox. Cox didnt beat his man to get to the QB, the QB ran straight into him.
The first of his sacks vs Kentucky, he beat his man and the QB run into him. I'll give him this sack as a clear sack.
The second of his sacks vs Kentucky, he was part of a heavy blitz that completely overwhelmed the Kentucky OLs. He had to beat no one to get to the QB.

Overhyped. Wolfe and Crick, in their best sacking year in college, both had almost twice (9.5sacks) than Cox in his best sacking year in college(5sacks). And of these 5 sacks, only once he did beat his man to get to the QB.

He played good in 3 games out of 12 last season, and he was completely mediocre the year before. Supposedly based on this he is a first round talent. Not for me. Guy cant get sacks unless the QB runs into him. That wont happen much against Brees, Eli, Rodgers and other great NFL QBs. He's not the answer to improving Pats pass rushing game.

I'll take Wolfe and Crick over him anyday. They know how to get to the QB twice as better than Cox.

What I saw in those videos is a guy who was playing DT in the 4-3 and both LDE and RDE in the 3-4. But he was 1 gapping the entire time. He definitely has power and he put a lot of pressure on the QB. Sacks aren't the only measure of a good pass rusher.

If he could learn to two gap, then Cox would be a great pick because he clearly has a lot of power. He also knows to get his hands up into the passing lanes, which our linemen don't do enough of.

 

[Sfpat]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

I watched the Cox tape against Kentucky. He lines up at all four DL positions and I liked him much better as a DE than a DT and would be able to set the edge as a 3/4 DE. Not sure if he is better that what the Pats already have. I would question him as a 1st rounder.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

What I saw in those videos is a guy who was playing DT in the 4-3 and both LDE and RDE in the 3-4. But he was 1 gapping the entire time. He definitely has power and he put a lot of pressure on the QB. Sacks aren't the only measure of a good pass rusher.

If he could learn to two gap, then Cox would be a great pick because he clearly has a lot of power. He also knows to get his hands up into the passing lanes, which our linemen don't do enough of.

That is why I think it takes Cox and Brockers a good year before they are effective in our defense, because they have to learn to play the 5 technique.

It took Ty Warren a whole year on the bench before he took off in year two. And even the great Seymour needed 6 to 8 games on the bench before he took over.

It is not a quick adjustment, but once they get it,they both project to excel in our defense.

I thought Cox's best two games of the season were against Alabama and Arkansas. I think Richardson was afraid to run on Cox's side of the field for most of that game.

 

[patsderoer]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

What I saw in those videos is a guy who was playing DT in the 4-3 and both LDE and RDE in the 3-4. But he was 1 gapping the entire time. He definitely has power and he put a lot of pressure on the QB. Sacks aren't the only measure of a good pass rusher.

If he could learn to two gap, then Cox would be a great pick because he clearly has a lot of power. He also knows to get his hands up into the passing lanes, which our linemen don't do enough of.

What the hell are you talking about. Cox has a big fat 0 ( zero, nada, zippo, zilch) passes broken up in his entire college career. I guess the reality is that he doesnt know how to get his hands up into the passing lanes. Next time I suggest you stop talking out of your arse and do some research.

Cox put a lot of pressure on the QB? LOL. He has 3 QB hurries in 12 games. Wolfe had double that while being mostly double teamed.

You want to see real power? Watch this Derek Wolfe Highlight: 2011 Big East Defensive POY - YouTube
If Cox had power, he would have done what Wolfe did in that vid. The fact is that Cox had only 1 sack when he did beat his man and sacked the QB.
Wolfe had 7 sacks in that highlight were he beats his man and sacks the QB.

Wolfe is clearly a better pass rusher than Fletcher-I-cant-get-sacks-unless- the-QB-runs-at-me-Cox. I would take Wolfe over Cox anytime.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

Want to see real power? Watch this Montage with just his best plays against feeble competition in the Big East!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[patsderoer]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

Want to see real power? Watch this Montage with just his best plays against feeble competition in the Big East!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Feeble competition? Jason Pierre-Paul played in the Big East and he put up worse stats than Wolfe. If the competition was so feeble JPP would have crushed the Big East, he would have put up much better number of sacks and TFLs.

Feeble competition like SEC have the best OLs. Oh wait, they dont. Only one of the first 10 OL rated prospects is from SEC.

 

[VrabelJr]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

That is why I think it takes Cox and Brockers a good year before they are effective in our defense, because they have to learn to play the 5 technique.

It took Ty Warren a whole year on the bench before he took off in year two. And even the great Seymour needed 6 to 8 games on the bench before he took over.

It is not a quick adjustment, but once they get it,they both project to excel in our defense.

I thought Cox's best two games of the season were against Alabama and Arkansas. I think Richardson was afraid to run on Cox's side of the field for most of that game.

This is why drafting 3-4 DEs/DTs is such a hard thing to do. You rarely know what you have until 3-4 years into their career and by then they're getting ready for free agency. As much as we all are dying for a DE/DT to be drafted I don't think BB grabs one unless he knows it's a really safe pick (ie. Ty Warren, Richard Seymour).

I really do love this year's crop of DTs and I know everyone thinks we're going to hit WR in free agency but knowing BB I think we draft a WR and grab a DT in free agency.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

This is why drafting 3-4 DEs/DTs is such a hard thing to do. You rarely know what you have until 3-4 years into their career and by then they're getting ready for free agency. As much as we all are dying for a DE/DT to be drafted I don't think BB grabs one unless he knows it's a really safe pick (ie. Ty Warren, Richard Seymour).

I really do love this year's crop of DTs and I know everyone thinks we're going to hit WR in free agency but knowing BB I think we draft a WR and grab a DT in free agency.

I agree. I think BB likes Kyle Love and Brandon Deaderick. I also think he's much more focused on run stopping from the DE position (3-4). The only two early round DT's I think we'll take are Devon Still (looks to be the best 3-4 DE) or Josh Chapman (value cover for Wilfork).

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

What the hell are you talking about. Cox has a big fat 0 ( zero, nada, zippo, zilch) passes broken up in his entire college career. I guess the reality is that he doesnt know how to get his hands up into the passing lanes. Next time I suggest you stop talking out of your arse and do some research.

Clearly you aren't bright enough to understand that Passes defensed (hitting the ball with his hands) isn't the only way that getting your hands up is effective. If you get your hands up and the QB has to throw it HIGH over you, you still did your job.

Cox put a lot of pressure on the QB? LOL. He has 3 QB hurries in 12 games. Wolfe had double that while being mostly double teamed.

QB hurries are a subjective stat. If you actually watched the video, Cox had 3 hurries just in that Kentucky game. But, just keep running your mouth and showing everyone how clueless you truly are.

You want to see real power? Watch this Derek Wolfe Highlight: 2011 Big East Defensive POY - YouTube
If Cox had power, he would have done what Wolfe did in that vid. The fact is that Cox had only 1 sack when he did beat his man and sacked the QB.
Wolfe had 7 sacks in that highlight were he beats his man and sacks the QB.

Wolfe is clearly a better pass rusher than Fletcher-I-cant-get-sacks-unless- the-QB-runs-at-me-Cox. I would take Wolfe over Cox anytime.

Again, you clearly show you are totally clueless as to what a 3-4 DE in a 2 Gap system needs to do. Do yourself a favor and go learn it. Then maybe the light will break over your thick skull and you'll realize that Wolfe is a pure 1 GAP guy. For Wolfe to fit in the Pats system, he'd have to add 10 lbs and learn how to stay in his assignment.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

Feeble competition? Jason Pierre-Paul played in the Big East and he put up worse stats than Wolfe. If the competition was so feeble JPP would have crushed the Big East, he would have put up much better number of sacks and TFLs.

Feeble competition like SEC have the best OLs. Oh wait, they dont. Only one of the first 10 OL rated prospects is from SEC.

JPP only started playing football in his Junior year of high school. He then had to spend 2 years at JUCO to get his grades to the point of being able to go to South Florida. It's also safe to say that Pierre-Paul was the best player on the South Florida roster so he probably saw more double teams than Wolfe did.

Wolfe has been playing football his entire life. If you are going to make comparisons, it would be nice if you made ones that actually made sense.

What loser puts ALL the O-line prospects into one group to try and prove a point? Someone who doesn't know wtf he's talking about and is trying to baffle others with BS. That's the type.
When intelligent posters talk about prospects, they look at the different groups. Center, Tackle, and Guard. They don't lump them all together.

Ben Jones is one of the better centers. Cordy Glenn is one of the top guards. Brandon Mosely from Auburn is projected as a 3rd round OT.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: 3-Round Mock (YDKF): Fletcher Cox, Alfonzo Dennard, Joe Adams, Travis Lewis, D Mo

I agree. I think BB likes Kyle Love and Brandon Deaderick. I also think he's much more focused on run stopping from the DE position (3-4). The only two early round DT's I think we'll take are Devon Still (looks to be the best 3-4 DE) or Josh Chapman (value cover for Wilfork).

I agree with you that BB likes Love and Deaderick. The fact that they gave Deaderick a 2nd chance after his fiasco prior to the play-offs last year and didn't cut him in the off-season boded well. And he played very well when he came back. He kinda reminded me of Bobby Hamilton.

I disagree that only Still and Chapman are early round potential targets. Cox and Brockers both should be considered as early rounders. So could Kendall Reyes in the 2nd round.