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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Gainzo, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    North Carolina becomes the 3rd state to strip Planned Parenthood of funding.

    Full article: North Carolina GOP Overrides Veto, Axes Planned Parenthood Funding
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Health care for women is not a very big priority by the granny state right, they know what is best for you, it is that barefoot in the winter and pregnant in the summer thing.
  3. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    The thing that disgusts me is that the Republicans are taking away birth control, breast screenings, pap smears, etc for low income women in their crusade to prevent abortions.

    Last I looked abortion was legal.
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They are but the right knows what is best for everybody..

    The economic impact of unwanted children will be significant as it will tax every system that is expensive and requires heavy state intervention, begining with low birth weights, medical issues, child welfare intervention, foster care systems, more children with special needs entering the school systems, crime, juvenile justice systems and finally adult justice systems.

    Unwanted children do poorly in just about every area...

    These are the systems that the right is concerned about.. and complain about how expensive they are.
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is been proposed to Planned Parenthood that they spin off their Abortion Business from their advisory services, they have declined to do so. Many voters do not want public funding of Abortion mills.

    The administration is now threatening to withhold funds from States that choose not to fund Abortion providers like Planned Parenthood with public funds.

    Just today this article appeared about the Abortion Industry (Planned Parenthood is the biggest Abortion Mill in the US).



    SMITH: The abortion industry's war on choice - Washington Times






    The abortion industry is trying to prevent Pregnancy Centers from having their free speech as documented in the article. If PP spins off their abortion business and get public funds so should these Centers that don't seek to push women into for profit abortion mills.
  6. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Abortion mills, heh.

    Women are always going to have abortions. Always have, always will. Should be trying to make it safe, legal, and rare, instead of simply limiting their reproductive options.
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    People are also going to smoke ciggies and drink no need to fund those activities.
  8. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    Great news about Sarah. At least she had a choice between abortion and having her baby.

    Do you know that there are over 4,000 "Pregnancy Centers" in the USA while there are 800 places that provide abortion services?

    Abortion Industry? Seriously?
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Killing ~1,000,000 babies per year is an Industry, into the hundred of millions a year. Yeah an Industry. REALLY especially to the victims.
  10. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    How on earth is abortion like smoking or consuming?
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    All are legal, smoking and drinking can have negative health consequences, abortion is lethal to the baby and sometimes to the mother.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
  12. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    So basically any legal medical procedure that carries any risk of death is a logical equivalent of smoking and alcohol consumption. Got it.
  13. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    Hundreds of millions of abortions per year?

    If the Republicans succeed in restricting, or flat out banning, abortion then the United States will become a bad place to live for women.

    Abortion is a women rights issue that affects every women, regardless of social or economic standing, in this Country.
  14. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    How do you feel about circumcision? A handful of babies die every year from botched circumcisions while others grow up with non functioning penis'.

    Then again, as a pro-lifer you don't care what happens after the child is born do you?
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Abortion of course isn't just a medical procedure it is intentionally ending a viable human life process. You can rationalize compartmentalize and spin all you want, but it is intentionally destroying a life.
  16. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    Should vasectomy's be banned? They stop the creation of human life. How about condoms?
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Condoms are not a human life process, neither are sperm. After the sperm and egg create a complete human DNA sequence and the human life process begins it is another story of course.
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It gets better:

    GOP Poised To Cut Food Aid For Pregnant Women, Children

    In an otherwise lean budget year, the House is poised to boost funding to take care of the medical needs of the nation's veterans.

    But the GOP-dominated chamber will soon resume its budget-slashing ways as it kicks off debate Tuesday on a food and farm spending bill that cuts aid for low-income pregnant women and their children and slashes a key overseas food aid program by about one-third below this year's funding.

    Once money is added for programs like defense, veterans and homeland security, spending on domestic programs like food aid for the poor, education, health care and housing subsidies falls to levels where lawmakers are going to find it difficult. After a $17 billion increase for the Pentagon is factored in, domestic agencies and foreign aid programs would absorb cuts of $47 billion that would translate into cuts averaging about 10 percent.

    The White House weighed in Monday with a policy statement blasting the agriculture bill but not explicitly threatening a veto.

    A program that provides healthy foods like milk, eggs and infant formula to about 9 million poor mothers and pregnant women and their children is one such program. Lawmakers for years have awarded it enough money so that all eligible people can get food, comparable to automatic benefit programs like food stamps and unemployment insurance.

    But the current budget guillotine is forcing cuts to previously protected programs like the food program for women, infants and children. The WIC program would absorb an $868 million cut of 13 percent from current spending – and a $1.3 billion cut below the administration's request. That has Democrats and advocates for the poor howling that it could mean that more than 200,000 people would be turned away from the program if food prices rise as expected.

    The bill also cuts a program that delivers food to low-income senior citizens 23 percent below current levels.

    GOP Poised To Cut Food Aid For Pregnant Women, Children

    I, personally, do not understand how babies are everyone's responsibility while they are in the womb but no one's responsibility once they are out.

    If you want them all born you dam well better want to make sure they get enough to eat once you get your way.
  19. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    I don't see how the "human life process" is materially different, at least in the early stages.
  20. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    PF13. What are your thoughts on this?
  21. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Depends on a number of factors, how was the funding relative to the number of recipients, was the aid a duplicated by other programs (food stamps, welfare and so on). The specifics of the program matters.

    I personally feel people should behave in a responsible manner. Adoption should be a more viable options for mothers who can''t support themselves. Adopting in the USA is very difficult for the adoptive parents and there are legal problems for the adoptive parents that should be removed.
  22. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    How is adopting a child hard? Legal problems stopping people from adoption? You mean those legal things like felons can't adopt or the inane laws in most states where gay couples can't adopt?

    Face the facts. There are way more kids up for adoption that there are people to adopt them.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
  23. patsfan13

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    No the birth mother doesn't have to fully surrender legal rights to the child, in some cases the birth mother has taken a child from the adoptive parents. This is frankly a terrifying thought to many/most adoptive mothers.
  24. DarrylS

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    Here is a news flash, everybody believes that people should behave in a responsible manner, but often they do not.

    Adoption is not a viable option, right now in america there are a lot of children available for adoption, however they languish in very expensive systems... unwanted children burden every system. Mothers who have children often do not want to give the baby up after birth, maybe you can pass a law and decide to take babies away and give them up for adoption.

    The right is turning into a pro pregnancy party, after you are born you are on your own you little f...er.

    Adoption should have a degree of difficulty, as you do not want to violate the most sacred bond there is; the legal relationship between parent and child. Making it easy is not always the best way.

    The right talks about family values, but wants to shortcut parental rights.. so that child might be adopted, many are not and some disrupt.
  25. DarrylS

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    The birth parents have to surrender their legal rights, if they do not there cannot be an adoption. The court can terminate them involuntarily, provided that certain requirements are met and proven beyond a reasonable doubt in Family Court.

    You want to make the most basic legal bond we have "easy", it should have a degree of difficulty to insure everyone's rights are not violated. My interaction with Family Court Judges view this termination as something that should be taken very seriously insuring all procedures are met.

    You talk about how wonderful this unwanted pregnancy is, if so why don't you advocate for excellent support systems to insure the child flourishes.. just taking a child away harkens back to the orphan trains of the 30's.

    FYI once an adoption is final, birth parents do not have any legal rights to take the child back. You do not have any idea of the process, it is very complicated and there is due diligence to insure that there cannot be any reason to overturn the court decision.

    Back in the day I did a lot of voluntary and involuntary terminations of parental rights, and none of my work was every overturned.. and none of my placements were ever disrupted by a birth parent. You do not know anything about the process and what it entails...
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
  26. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    That's a cop-out answer. You've often railed against social programs for the poor, PF13. Do you want to see the WIC program cut? Are you okay with 20,000 pregnant women and children being unable to eat because funding was cut?

    So you don't really want all these pregnant woman who are aborting their babies to actually keep their babies, is that it? They should simply have them and give them away once they've fullfilled their destiny? FIne, who supports them while they're pregnant? Who feeds them if they cannot work? Who shelters them if they get kicked out of their home? Who delivers their baby if they do not have the ability to pay a doctor or hospital bill? The adoptive parents? That's illegal, isn't it? That's baby-buying and I think it's against the law. And it doesn't work for the huge percentage of women who are not blue eyed blondes - you know the ones - the minority women whose babies are not in high demand. The ones whose children already overload the foster system.

    Adoption is difficult, yes. I'm not sure that's an entirely bad thing. Good perspective parents succeed - the not so good one, maybe not. I have several relatives who've adopted children - I believe you've said that you have adopted children - people are successful.

    What legal problems would you have removed? The laws against gay people adopting? The laws against single parents adopting? The laws which require parents to be below or above a certain age? Many of those problems go away if the perspective parents are willing to take a child who is less than perfect, less than an infant, less in demand, so to speak.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
  27. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    Fantastic post Mrs.PatsFanInVa. The GOP wants all pregnant women to give birth but after the child is born there will be no support for the child.

    How does that make sense?
  28. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    It doesn't.

    I'd be the first person to support stricter anti-abortion laws if we found some way to assure that all pregnant women and all children would be fed, given adequate shelter, medical care and education, if we instituted a policy which taught sex education, including pregnancy prevention, to everyone and if we offered birth control methods on a sliding scale fee to all.

    Until then - until people who argue that all life is sacred and all abortion is murder find a way to make life not only sacred but bearable find it in themselves to put their money where their morality is - not so much.

    I am uncomfortable telling a woman what to do with her future when I am unwilling or unable to help her make that future bearable.
  29. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's COOL to go to Africa to adopt then the Loons can parade around and "feel good" they love it when people look at them.

    Adopting in Africa is the "In Thing" to do if your rich and famous, oh look at me.

    I don't know what it's like today but Religion used to be a big factor in adopting, I have also heard that it is difficult today to adopt in America, I'm not to well versed on adoption, I had to have a Vasectomy to stop having kids.
  30. chicowalker

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    harry again fascinated with Hollywood...

    can you name more than ahandful of people -- if that many -- who have adoped in Africa?

    (and btw, who cares where somebody adopts a child from? Does it have any effect whatsoever on you?)

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