3 -4 Ends

[Peachhead]

Watts impresses me too, but he's harder to project. I don't think this team has ever lined up anybody similar to him...in fact, I'm having trouble coming up with comparisons for him in general. A lanky 6'6" 292 college DE whose game seems to be more agility and agression than classic speed or power...anybody come to mind?

I think a young Richard Seymour is an excellent comparison. I imagine Watt will measure a fraction of an inch shorter than his listed 6'6" and hopefully (after his pre-combine training) 5-10 pounds heavier. And like Seymour, Watt played primarily as a 4-3 DT in college.

I also think Watt already has very good power.

 

[patchick]

I think a young Richard Seymour is an excellent comparison. I imagine Watt will measure a fraction of an inch shorter than his listed 6'6" and hopefully (after his pre-combine training) 5-10 pounds heavier. And like Seymour, Watt played primarily as a 4-3 DT in college.

I also think Watt already has very good power.

Wow, the sizes may be close but I'm really not seeing that. Seymour did, as you say, did play 4-3 DT in college (and his first year with the Patriots). Watt moved around the line some, but I'm pretty sure he was the starting 4-3 defensive END for every Wisconsin game the past two years. They look tremendously different on the field to my eyes.

 

[doesntmatter1]

JJ Watt reminds me of jason taylor for some reason. It might be the number but that is what comes to mind.

 

[bucky]

A lanky 6'6" 292 college DE whose game seems to be more agility and agression than classic speed or power...anybody come to mind?

Marquis Hill? Another guy who comes to mind is Corey Wooton, although he was about 20 pounds lighter, but had a similar style to what you describe.

 

[bucky]

I may be wrong on some of this but :

I see Love as a NT. And Pryor and Wright as passing down DT. G. Warren is unsigned so I'll ignore him.

That leaves Brace, Deaderick and Ty Warren. Warren is coming off of season ending hip surgery, I have no idea what the prognosis is, but for a 30 year old DL I can't say I'm supremely confident. I sure hope we can add to this group.

Vince has also played some DE. My bigger point here is that the Pats have NT and LDE covered with all the guys you mentioned. The area they need to improve is RDE and 3rd down DT - where Pryor was totally unproductive. Both of those are Seymour's old slots that have not been filled very well.

 

[BelichickFan]

Vince has also played some DE. My bigger point here is that the Pats have NT and LDE covered with all the guys you mentioned.

I don't count Vince at DE until we have a viable NT for those times and, as of now, we don't. So while he can, and has, played DE, for now he's a NT to me because moving him creates a weakness elsewhere so it doesn't solve anything other than helping a specific matchup.

As for the rest I'm still not buying it. We have guys but no-one I have confidence in. T. Warren has a major injury to come back from at an advancing age. If we just have Brace and Deaderick I want at least one high and one mid draft pick both to compete with those guys as starters and to create far better depth than we had in 2010.

 

[MaineMan]

Vince has also played some DE. My bigger point here is that the Pats have NT and LDE covered with all the guys you mentioned. The area they need to improve is RDE and 3rd down DT - where Pryor was totally unproductive. Both of those are Seymour's old slots that have not been filled very well.

Kinda the way I see it, too.

Here's my preliminary depth chart:

3-4 LINE:

LDE: Ty Warren (inj), Kade Weston (inj)
NT: Wilfork, Brace (inj), Love, Weston (inj)
RDE: G. Warren (old), Weston (inj)

40-front/sub-packages:

DT: Brace (inj), Love, Landon Cohen (??), Darryl Richard (inj), [Marlon Favorite - P/S]
Sub-rusher: Wright (inj), Pryor (inj), Deaderick (jerk)

Lots of question marks along the D-line. To me, that means, potentially, lots of room for new guys.

 

[BelichickFan]

Kinda the way I see it, too.

Here's my preliminary depth chart:

3-4 LINE:

LDE: Ty Warren (inj), Kade Weston (inj)
NT: Wilfork, Brace (inj), Love, Weston (inj)
RDE: G. Warren (old), Weston (inj)

Lots of question marks along the D-line. To me, that means, potentially, lots of room for new guys.

Yeah, I'd say that's a lot of questions. One Warren who's mediocre and unsigned. Another that's coming off a hip injury. Your backup NT looked better at DE but without him we have Love. And who knows about Weston.

Puke.

We need no less that a quality backup NT unless Love can be that and a high draft pick potential starting DE; preferably two.

 

[everlong]

in fact, I'm having trouble coming up with comparisons for him in general. A lanky 6'6" 292 college DE whose game seems to be more agility and agression than classic speed or power...anybody come to mind?

Jamaal Anderson of the Falcons is the guy he reminds me of.

 

[patchick]

Jamaal Anderson of the Falcons is the guy he reminds me of.

Nice! I can also see the Corey Wootton comparison made earlier, though he seems heftier.

 

[thodoks]

Any thoughts on Jared Crick?

 

[bucky]

Any thoughts on Jared Crick?

Yes - he's going to be a powerhouse in the Big 12 next year!

 

[thodoks]

Oops.


10 char

 

[MaineMan]

Yeah, I'd say that's a lot of questions. One Warren who's mediocre and unsigned. Another that's coming off a hip injury. Your backup NT looked better at DE but without him we have Love. And who knows about Weston.

Puke.

We need no less that a quality backup NT unless Love can be that and a high draft pick potential starting DE; preferably two.

Not sure I'd be so severe as to term G. Warren "mediocre", but I'd agree that he's not nearly what the system requires.

Weston is 6'5" (and a hair, IIRC) and 315, which seems potentially DE-ish to me. But, you're correct - who knows?

I still think of Brace as primarily a reserve NT who was playing DE this season mostly because we didn't have anyone else. Although, he might've been given time there anyway as part of his development program.

Overall, though, the D-line has seemed like a temporary patchwork job for two consecutive seasons and is a much bigger concern for me than any unit other than, perhaps, the O-line.

 

[MaineMan]

Jamaal Anderson of the Falcons is the guy he reminds me of.

Oh, right.

I was looking through team rosters the other day to get a handle on the possible needs of other teams and noticed his size and that he's going into his contract year. Was wondering if the Falcons are happy with him at (primarily, from what I gather) DT. And, of course, wondering how he might fit as a 3-4 DE for the Pats if it were even possible to acquire him for a reasonable cost in draft picks.

Any thoughts?

 

[everlong]

Oh, right.

I was looking through team rosters the other day to get a handle on the possible needs of other teams and noticed his size and that he's going into his contract year. Was wondering if the Falcons are happy with him at (primarily, from what I gather) DT. And, of course, wondering how he might fit as a 3-4 DE for the Pats if it were even possible to acquire him for a reasonable cost in draft picks.

Any thoughts?

I haven't looked at how he's grown as a Falcon so I'm not sure. I was basing my comparison off of looking at him when he came out of college. I didn't think he was a good fit for the Pats at the time. Like Watts I think he could be a good end for GB, SD, Pitt.....style of 3-4. Both of them like to penetrate.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Oh, right.

I was looking through team rosters the other day to get a handle on the possible needs of other teams and noticed his size and that he's going into his contract year. Was wondering if the Falcons are happy with him at (primarily, from what I gather) DT. And, of course, wondering how he might fit as a 3-4 DE for the Pats if it were even possible to acquire him for a reasonable cost in draft picks.

Any thoughts?

He was suppose to be a pass rusher but was moved to DT when that didn't go as planned. In the game this was mentioned, the Falcons thought him serviceable at DT.

 

[WesWelker83]

Interesting notes from ESPN's Todd mcshay today on Cameron Jordan and JJ Watt:

"The thing I took from today is the more I see Cal's Cameron Jordan, who was a 3-4 DE in college, the more I think he's a better fit as a 4-3 left defensive end. He's a lot like Wisconsin's J.J. Watt. People look at them physically and see a great five-technique guy, but I think because they both have great hands, are active on the move and can make things happen that they are better fits at left DE. After studying both on film and seeing Watt in the Rose Bowl and Jordan here at the Senior Bowl, there's not a huge difference between them but it's obvious Jordan is the better all-around prospect. Jordan is fighting to get in the top 20, while Watt is slightly behind him."

I feel the same way that McShay does. Both of these guys seem like 4-3 players or 3-4 Des on one gap teams like Pitt, Balt, NYJ. Jordan only weighs 287 which is light for a DE in our scheme. Ty Warren, Seymour, and Marquise Hill were all drafted high at DE and all of them weighed over 300 pounds. JJ Watt only weighs 292 as well. I don't feel either of them can hold up in a two gap scheme. Jordan also has some really bad tape out there. He got killed vs Tyron Smith in the USC game. Watt seems raw and would need a redshirt year to even be ready to do anything we require of our DE's. He wasn't asked to do anything like that at Wisconsin where he played DE.

 

[Sciz]

I completely agree on Jordan. I bump Watt up a little just because he's got great length and looks like he could easily add a bunch of weight. Seymour is still the measuring stick for DEs, and part of what made him so great was his length, something that everybody other than Watt and Heyward lack.

 

[bucky]

I completely agree on Jordan. I bump Watt up a little just because he's got great length and looks like he could easily add a bunch of weight. Seymour is still the measuring stick for DEs, and part of what made him so great was his length, something that everybody other than Watt and Heyward lack.

Watt can add weight, but that could cause him to lose a lot of the quickness that makes him effective. He seems to be closer to an OLB in our system than a DE with his style of play. Jordan is plenty tall enough to play in this system and has a great wingspan. He's a heck of a player and can probably add 10 pounds without losing effectiveness because he's a more physical player than Watt.