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2nd Round- Best Value

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by PATSNUTme, Mar 18, 2006.

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  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    As of today, when you look at the players availible after the top 15 the value in this draft seems to be in the second round.

    Therefore, I'm suggesting that the Patriots trade down and up to get as many as 3 or 4 second rounders.

    At the top of the second round will be Bobby Carpenter,LB. I like Cedrick Griffin for CB mid to upper 2nd round. Maurice Stovall for WR & Joseph Addai RB seem to be mid 2nd rounders.

    If they should find the right trading partners ( a big IF, I know) and walk away with those four, I'll be a happy man. Then with the two comp picks go with a TE and a OG/T. Maybe save a 5th and take a NT to back up Big Vince. Seems to be a deep draft to find that back up NT in the 5th.

    Seven total picks instead of 11 would be OK by me.

    Now, go ahead and tear into me.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2006
  2. Feep_FLA

    Feep_FLA Rookie

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    I they could pull this off it might be the best draft ever for them. All but Griffin are on my personal dream list. Not knocking Griffin, I'm just not aware of him. As of this moment we have 9 picks and it may go up to 10 or 11. I would like to see 7 picks or less. I believe this year movement with trading next years picks w/teams will be easier than is normally typical. So we may indeed see something like your scenario. I sure hope so! :rocker:
  3. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We all bb's value strategy. If there are many almost equal that we want available at 21, bb will trade down. Yes, I would prefer to have four seconds to a 1st, a 2nd and two thirds.
    -------------

    That being said, the new rules make a lower first rounder more valuable. They can be (and would be expected to be) signed to five year deal. A 2nd rounder is a four year deal.
  4. bosfan

    bosfan Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Trading down gets my vote but I like our position right now as well - #21 and #52 will be solid picks and then those two 3's and two 4's represent a great opportunity to find some additional value that could reinforce our ranks big time.
  5. nickw308810

    nickw308810 Rookie

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    Remember that Draft game PatsWorldChamps had us do? With the GBN list and the Draft Value Chart? Well I did a 2nd one of those kind of like the idea you had with all the 2nd round picks because I thought that is where all the value was as well. No need to write about all the points but here is what I ended up with:

    Traded down for Richard Marshall
    Than for Kamerion Wimbley
    than up for Joseph Addai
    than up for Darnell Bing
    than up for Jonathan Scott
    than up a few for Kai Parham
    than down for Greg Jennings
    than selected any NT and TE available late
    Tommy Jackson? Jimmy Martin?

    I would feel pretty good with that draft.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2006
  6. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    That would be a very good draft. I'd love to get those players.

    The only trouble I have with "trade mocks" is that you have to have a willing trading partner. When you start doing that in mocks, you really have to assume a lot, then it becomes more of an ultra fantasty mock.

    That's why when I set up the original "GBN' mock, I didn't allow trades.
  7. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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    were any future picks involved? if not, that's pretty freakin' good!!!!

    imagine coming away with all those guys!! even parham & jennings !!! what number was each pick taken? i can't imagine a better draft class than that & question as to whether it's even feasable. they could all start by the end of the season.

    where are my pills!
  8. big mike

    big mike Rookie

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    Carpenter MAY make it into the second round - but I think it's fairly likely he'll be taken late first round (and many mocks have him there).

    Stovall is over-rated IMO. Addai could be taken anywhere in the 2nd round.

    I'd love to see them get Carpenter and Addai. The others I'm not so high on, and I'm not that confidenty Carpenter will slip into round 2. With the FA signings going on, it looks like more teams will be looking at LB in round 2.
  9. nickw308810

    nickw308810 Rookie

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    Well yeah that is what that is an "ultra fantasy mock". In the game you didn't even have to make an actual trade, just as long as the points system worked. The point of it though was that if we target a few key players at good value than we can make almost anything happen. Instead of going with the top tier prospects like Lawson and Cromartie, we could acquire more value with a Marshall and Wimbley and extra picks (or points as it was in this case). Is the draft I made realistic? Not by a long shot, but it just shows that with all our picks Belichick will be able to get the players he targets if we move around some. 3 or 4 second rounders like you said.
  10. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    You very well could be right about Carpenter. In fact, a month ago I had him as the guy the Patriots should take at #21 and he still may be.

    But the 4 or 5 grading pubications tha I've looked at has him a top 5 in the 2nd round.

    Every draft has it own dynamics and it will depend on what positions are being "run on'. Hell, two years ago no mock or draft grading system had Big Vince sitting #21 for us. The lowest that I saw him ranked was #12.
  11. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Don't get me wrong. All I'm saying is that in order to trade, you have to have a willing trading partner. Nothing else matters if you can't find a team willing to trade to the spot that you want.

    In some cases, there is more than one team wanting that spot and then the bidding starts and the value chart gets thrown out.
  12. big mike

    big mike Rookie

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    The reason I doubt he'll make it that far is that due to FA acquisitions, many teams are now looking at OLB as their top need. The grading publications ignore that. Carpenter has been fairly undervalued overall, in large part probably due to AJ Hawk stealing the limelight away from him. But, Carpenter is very good - and IMO if Dallas doesn't take him at 18, we should (and probably will) at 21.

    It would be an interesting question as far as whether we should take Carpenter or Lawson if both were available at 21. Lawson is definitely the better athlete, but Carpenter has better intangibles, and is more of a sure thing (although Lawson has more upside potential).
  13. b72s

    b72s Rookie

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    Great Looking Draft

    But I think it is not plausible as there are alot of nice name and unlse we had
    Really high second rounders it would be tough.

    Given The Mocks I have seen do we stick with D or take a running back. With the four RBs around our 21st are they better than D???

    If they are and BB stays true to less value on RBs than I could see a trade down and stock up on D and maybe sneak in Addai after at least one d pick.

    I would like to get dominck Davis for a lower pick and go Defense up the middle
  14. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    Amazing! Every single year, somebody posts this same exact theory.
  15. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    This is not a theory - it's an observation. I haven't made that observation before.

    So, tell us. Who should the Patriots take at #21 or should they look to trade up or down? Providing they can find a willing trading partner.
  16. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    I didn't mean to be rude about it. It was just my observation that every year somebody posts a similar observation that the value of the draft is somewhere in the 35-60 range and that we should try to acquire as many 2nd rounders as possible. I think it happens because every year there are 6-12 top prospects that we can't afford to trade up for and there's a group of players within a couple of positions who are closely grouped, at least by the so-called experts.

    As for my opinion, I'm not saying you're wrong. The only guys I'm high on who I think could slide to 21 are Santonio Holmes and LenDale White. If they're not there, I'm all for trading down. But part of this is also because I haven't followed college FB or the draft as much as I usually do.
  17. patpatriot

    patpatriot Banned

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    Not likely tho

    For us to trade down from 21 into round 2, somebody really unusual would have to drop like Vince Young or Ngata (sp?) or maybe even Greenway (possible). Much more likey would be a trade down from 21 to 22-32 in the first. Could pick up a nice 3rd rounder or maybe a future 2nd, or at least some favorable mid round position swaps.
  18. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    IF Huff drops to #15, who would trade up for this guy??????? What would you be willing to sacrifice to get him???????

    Huff = spectacular athlete. Can play a nasty headhunting SS and cover like a CB! If Harison comes all the way back, we can slide Huff over to nickel and our run support suffers nothing and our coverage speed improves. Best DB in the draft, hands down.
  19. Boston Tim

    Boston Tim Rookie

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    With the new CBA, there are restrictions on the number of years that you can force upon a 2nd rounder. That new policy reduces the value of players in the second round, IMHO. I would have agreed with you last year. But now I'd rather pay a larger signing bonus for a late first rounder but get to keep him for 5 years instead of 4.
  20. patpatriot

    patpatriot Banned

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    Huff? Oh yeah

    Many favorable comparisons to Ronnie Lot. What is that worth? 21 to 15 would cost our first 3rd rounder and our nice 5th. We'd have to be sure that he would start at CB or FS moving Wilson to CB. Rodney insurance, starting CB capable. yeah I guess I would do it.
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