2017 Draft Prospect Thread

[WaterfallJumper]

Thanks to Daniel Jeremiah, I might have my first real binky.



So I watched a game of his, and the thing is, he is!

Good grief. He really does look exactly like Edelman out there. Great find!

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Here's a fun game. Read the below, and pick out as many Patriot key words/phrases as possible. I counted 7

I am not even sure what to label him as, but Javarion Grant is a lot of fun. Career record holder for return/punt TDs for the NCAA, he moved up in the offense this year to a more meaningful part of the offense, as a receiver, scatback, wildcat qb. He's also thrown 2 TDs in his career, one of which would turn make Tannehill jealous. All told, he's accounted for 35% of Rutgers offense this year, which is incredible. Unfortunately, he broke a big play the other week against Iowa, got his foot stepped on, and ended his season.

I think there is a lot to like about this guy. He has exceptional agility and NFL speed to go with it. He is definitely undersized at 5'10 185lb, but his quickness should allow him to make plays on offense and special teams.

Also, with the injury, his value should push him down to a place they can take a risk on a player without traditional measurements. To me, he's probably a 5th round version of McCaffrey, or a quote that I read, Devin Hester with hands.

The videos at the bottom of the link are all worth watching.

An Ode To Janarion Grant

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Patfans Exclusive!

McDaniels/Belichick Porn Stache Discovered



This is a fun video.

Here is luke easterling on Switzer as well.

A little more video breakdown and analysis. Lots of praise as well.

Ryan Switzer: the secret to North Carolina's success

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

And one more back to keep track of, and maybe my favourite one so far.

D'onta Foreman.

6'1. 250lb 20yr old Junior from Texas.

To put that size in perspective, he would be larger than Derrick Henry by a few lbs, bigger than Blount, Jamal Lewis, Ricky Williams, and all but three backs since 99 at the combine. He's also bigger than any fullback drafted in the last decade.

Size is great and important for handling linebackers and taking a pounding, but he also has legit speed and feet to go with it. It's actually quite remarkable how well he moves in space, while also feeling equally comfortable between the tackles.

He does lack as a pass catcher at this point, but that's not what I am drafting him for. I had serious doubts about Henry's ability at the next level because I didn't like his vision at the second level. That has obviously been proven wrong so far, but Foreman seems to see the field incredibly well already.

Here is a fun video showing his speed and athleticsm. There are a few runs where he is outrunning his receivers who are trying to block for him. There are some really good scouting videos as well, from Matt Waldman out there as well, and some game cut ups to give you a better idea on his overall game.

But I like him. A lot. Especially if they can't bring Blount back.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Foreman is definitely on my radar as a Blount replacement. He's having a great year so far. I'd like to see us stock up on young running backs for the next few years.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Foreman is definitely on my radar as a Blount replacement. He's having a great year so far. I'd like to see us stock up on young running backs for the next few years.

I wouldn't mind at all double dipping this draft. Lewis and white are both going to be in their last year, while Blount and bolden are going to be up.

Foster may be a long term answer, but I still have some questions about his talents outside of receiving. There are going to be 3-4 scat backs worth keeping an eye on, either early in the draft or a late round flyer.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Zay jones went for another 18 catches today, moving in to 3rd all time in ncaa receptions.

I think the comparison I am working with right now is Greg Jennings. Great route runner with an extensive tree, who can move all over the field, from slot to outside.

Not saying he ends up like the Green Bay great, but that's my working narrative for now.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Jamaal Williams runs like a madman at the running back position. He's got some growth still as a player, for sure (he missed nearly two years due to injury and off the field issues), but he's been a monster since his return to football. I've rarely seen any backs who seek out contact as regularly as Williams. Very aggressive and hotheaded runner. Might be an interesting option as a bruiser back. Fun to watch him take on tacklers and fling his body around.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

If you guys like scouting in real time, you have to watch a Washington Huskies game. They have so many prospects on defense worth watching.

One of the big questions I have had about this draft has been about finding a true DT/NT type, since most of the high end tackles are closer to end size. Enter the Washington defensive front. They have three guys that have the size to step in to our middle tomorrow.

The most intriguing of the three is Vita Vea. He is 6'5, between 330-350lbs, and moves like he's 6' 260. I am not kidding about that, he is an absolute freak athlete. He was a high school running back at 260lbs, that redshirted his freshman year, and has added almost a 100lbs since. The funny thing is, he looks like he could add a ton more weight, almost like young Vince seemed destined to carry a lot more weight effortlessly. Right now, he's in a rotation with two other DT's that are also getting first/second round buzz in Greg Gaines (6'1 320 rs.soph) and Elijah Qualls (6'1 320 rs.jr) but for me, Vea has the total physical package to carry the mail in the middle for a long long time.

If I had to make a too obvious comparison, it's Haloti Ngata. Both have great power and leverage, while also can hold blocks and push the pocket. Vea has a long way to go in figuring out how to use his talent, but the toolbox is all there.

They also have:

Budda Baker, who is a Earl Thomas type roaming the deep parts of the field
Sidney Jones, potential shutdown corner with real physicality and athleticsm to match
Keishawn Bierria, an Elandon Roberts type, undersized tackling machine in the middle
Azeem Victor, a movable piece that gets used similar to Jamie Collins. In space, up the middle, does it all
John Ross, straight blazing speed deep threat. Like 4.2s speed. A guy we never draft, but love to watch

Also, all 5 of the above play on special teams.

I know Alabama gets all the love for the depth of talent they have, and rightfully so, but this Washington team just blows me away. They have 7-8 guys who could go in the top 100. The crazy part being, almost all of them could be back next year as well.

If you have time, watch the Stanford and Washington game in 30min. It explains why McCaffrey was held in check so much. He was basically playing an NFL defense.

Vea #50
Gaines #99
Qualls #11
Jones #26
Baker #32
Bierria #7
Victor #36
Ross #1

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Oh, they also have a senior cornerback named Kevin King that is 6'3 and did the 3 cone in 6.40 (!!!!) last spring.

To put that in perspective, only one corner has ever gone 6.40 or under at the combine

Only 4 corners 6'3 or taller have ever gone under 7 seconds. That includes Kings physical doppelgänger, Richard Sherman.

Washington plays a lot of zone, and use King as their money/star backer, so it's hard to figure how he will translate to corner, but his burst is exceptional, and has a nose for the ball.

One thing that is double edged sword for many of these guys is that they seem to realize how talented their team is, and have a lot of trust in each other's abilities. I say that can be a negative because they don't seem to over pursue plays, knowing they have other players around them that can clean plays up. It's hard to know what each's physical and skillful potential is, when everyone around them can cover their mistakes. King seems like the type whose physical skills should allow him to do everything he wants out there, but isn't imposing his will either, knowing he doesn't have to.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Alright, last Washington love fest for tonight, but I can't get over vita vea.

So, this is a terrible defensive play by Washington, giving up an 80yrd run with plenty of missed tackles. But, follow number 50 (playing NT) on this play. He gets triple teamed, and still gets in to the backfield. What's really amazing is watching him try and run down the running back all the way down the field.

How many 350lb guys can make it 80 yards down field, let alone keep up? These are the plays that binkies are made.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

How would you compare him to Clowney?

I think Clowney will be a really nice player but I had him behind Mack. He had tons of work to do. Game and body wise.

I used to describe and evaluated Clowney as a freak with "No Skill Set". He essentially won on shear athleticism, lining up against guys who were out matched from jump. His bull rush, for example was probably his best move and even then he didn't extend/bench his arms to lock out.

I know some may find this funny but I look at body composition among other things and he was very skinny in the legs and ankles.

Putting him at OLB seemingly should have helped him. But injuries played a part, along with the reasons above I mentioned. I thought initially that was the right move but saw/see him ending up as a guy around 280 who would play edge and kick inside on obvious passing downs.

Positives
Garrett is a ready made freak. Explosive. Smooth and Fluid. Straight out of NFL central casting. From a body composition pov he has everything you want. Hes smooth and fluid from head to toe. Big hands, Long arms, thick legs and calves, broad shoulders and a big bubble. Hes developed every year and lives in the weight room. Still can add there. Great motor from start to finish. Great h/w/s.

Has a variety of moves and only getting better. Can dip/get low to make a tight loop. Bull rush is getting better and that only helps his spin which I think will become a weapon at the next level. Single arm stab. If he gets one arm on the QB he can take him down or hold on until someone else gets there.

Can turn into a "cowboy" (rodeo tackles = chase, lasso/one arm and high tie/two arms) in the backfield and down the field. Again explosive athlete.

The kid has the body, athleticism and ability to play almost anywhere along the line at the next level, were I suspect he'll add another 10-12lbs. Very nice, stay the course motor that'll wear his opponent down. He'll drop his bubble and hold doubles nicely for his size. Played some weak side front edge, 2 gap in odd front.

Great lateral movement to be disruptive the run, screen game. Contains, sets the edge and takes pride in it. Won't over pursue and sell out. Long strides just tear up space in front of him. He moves effortlessly and it's like he floats on air. Looks and plays "light"

Isn't a "me" guy at all. Smart kid who never looks like he's thinking. Just plays. He'll run and chase to cut off angles. Times jumps great. Could be great On s/t's.
Never sustained any big injuries. Stays off the facebook and other bs. Smart kid that can handle a lot and handle it like an adult. Very young!

Negatives
Can more consistent if he doesn't win at the beginning of a play. Could improve hands.

Pro comparison: cross between Peppers and Ware.


One of 3 best edge/rush prospect I've ever evaluated. My dream would be a Jimmy G trade here. Bill would never take the pick, rather trade it for multiples imo. Myles is a unbelievable prospect imo. What I like to call a rare "yetti" prospect. Someone who will come in with a very high floor and very high ceiling.

One of my other "yetti's" and one we have a better shot at is Evan Engram. Easily one of fav prospects in this year's draft.

Positives
Very nice h/w/s. Long arms, huge hands. Nice long, lean body that will fill out a bit more at the next level. Flexible. Smooth and fluid. Another guy who "floats" when running.

At 6'3 / 230 he has really nice speed to break away from a defender. Great stop/start. Can get "big" and go up to make take the ball or make an athletic one handed catch with big hands. Can also get small to avoid big hits. Great catch radius. Can sky to make a play on 50/50. Will stretch out to make tough catch. Will make the tough catch on bad passes. Great in a phone booth. Great quickness.

Great all around blocker, especially at the second level. His athleticism really sets him apart here. Always moving his feet. Very hard to move when he sets his base. Gets hands inside the #'s and moves his man very well. Plays to the whistle and has that dog in him.

From what I can tell nice character.

Negatives
Doesn't have top end speed and will get caught from behind on occasion. Few drops. Route running could improve.

NFL comparison: Aaron Hernandez and Jordan Reed

 

[manxman2601]

I think Clowney will be a really nice player but I had him behind Mack. He had tons of work to do. Game and body wise.

I used to describe and evaluated Clowney as a freak with "No Skill Set". He essentially won on shear athleticism, lining up against guys who were out matched from jump. His bull rush, for example was probably his best move and even then he didn't extend/bench his arms to lock out.

I know some may find this funny but I look at body composition among other things and he was very skinny in the legs and ankles.

Putting him at OLB seemingly should have helped him. But injuries played a part, along with the reasons above I mentioned. I thought initially that was the right move but saw/see him ending up as a guy around 280 who would play edge and kick inside on obvious passing downs.

Positives
Garrett is a ready made freak. Explosive. Smooth and Fluid. Straight out of NFL central casting. From a body composition pov he has everything you want. Hes smooth and fluid from head to toe. Big hands, Long arms, thick legs and calves, broad shoulders and a big bubble. Hes developed every year and lives in the weight room. Still can add there. Great motor from start to finish. Great h/w/s.

Has a variety of moves and only getting better. Can dip/get low to make a tight loop. Bull rush is getting better and that only helps his spin which I think will become a weapon at the next level. Single arm stab. If he gets one arm on the QB he can take him down or hold on until someone else gets there.

Can turn into a "cowboy" (rodeo tackles = chase, lasso/one arm and high tie/two arms) in the backfield and down the field. Again explosive athlete.

The kid has the body, athleticism and ability to play almost anywhere along the line at the next level, were I suspect he'll add another 10-12lbs. Very nice, stay the course motor that'll wear his opponent down. He'll drop his bubble and hold doubles nicely for his size. Played some weak side front edge, 2 gap in odd front.

Great lateral movement to be disruptive the run, screen game. Contains, sets the edge and takes pride in it. Won't over pursue and sell out. Long strides just tear up space in front of him. He moves effortlessly and it's like he floats on air. Looks and plays "light"

Isn't a "me" guy at all. Smart kid who never looks like he's thinking. Just plays. He'll run and chase to cut off angles. Times jumps great. Could be great On s/t's.
Never sustained any big injuries. Stays off the facebook and other bs. Smart kid that can handle a lot and handle it like an adult. Very young!

Negatives
Can more consistent if he doesn't win at the beginning of a play. Could improve hands.

Pro comparison: cross between Peppers and Ware.


One of 3 best edge/rush prospect I've ever evaluated. My dream would be a Jimmy G trade here. Bill would never take the pick, rather trade it for multiples imo. Myles is a unbelievable prospect imo. What I like to call a rare "yetti" prospect. Someone who will come in with a very high floor and very high ceiling.

One of my other "yetti's" and one we have a better shot at is Evan Engram. Easily one of fav prospects in this year's draft.

Positives
Very nice h/w/s. Long arms, huge hands. Nice long, lean body that will fill out a bit more at the next level. Flexible. Smooth and fluid. Another guy who "floats" when running.

At 6'3 / 230 he has really nice speed to break away from a defender. Great stop/start. Can get "big" and go up to make take the ball or make an athletic one handed catch with big hands. Can also get small to avoid big hits. Great catch radius. Can sky to make a play on 50/50. Will stretch out to make tough catch. Will make the tough catch on bad passes. Great in a phone booth. Great quickness.

Great all around blocker, especially at the second level. His athleticism really sets him apart here. Always moving his feet. Very hard to move when he sets his base. Gets hands inside the #'s and moves his man very well. Plays to the whistle and has that dog in him.

From what I can tell nice character.

Negatives
Doesn't have top end speed and will get caught from behind on occasion. Few drops. Route running could improve.

NFL comparison: Aaron Hernandez and Jordan Reed

I've not studied a lot of Garrett yet but when I've watched him, I've not been all that impressed by his run support. I agree he's a tremendous pass rusher that deserves to be the first non-QB to go however. I'm a little meh on Engram. I just don't see what sets him apart. He's not quick enough go be a WR and not good enough as a blocker to be a move TE.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I've not studied a lot of Garrett yet but when I've watched him, I've not been all that impressed by his run support. I agree he's a tremendous pass rusher that deserves to be the first non-QB to go however. I'm a little meh on Engram. I just don't see what sets him apart. He's not quick enough go be a WR and not good enough as a blocker to be a move TE.

Disagree strongly above Engram. Hes a "move", "flex" guy you line up in any spot. Plenty quick enough in tight spots. And with all due respect hes one of the best blocking wr's/tight end in this class.

Guaranteed he'll be rising in a hurry after killing the combine. He'll play around 230 filled out and have him stay away from the fray. Again A-Hern / Reed 2.0.
Honestly think you're missing a gem here.

M.G. is a freak of nature. Not twitch monster but hes very legit. Easily the best player in the draft including QB. Which, as of now, none deserve a top 10 pick, let alone #1. Extremely young. Productive. Versatile. Smart and tons of room to grow.

 

[manxman2601]

Disagree strongly above Engram. Hes a "move", "flex" guy you line up in any spot. Plenty quick enough in tight spots. And with all due respect hes one of the best blocking wr's/tight end in this class.

Guaranteed he'll be rising in a hurry after killing the combine. He'll play around 230 filled out and have him stay away from the fray. Again A-Hern / Reed 2.0.
Honestly think you're missing a gem here.

M.G. is a freak of nature. Not twitch monster but hes very legit. Easily the best player in the draft including QB. Which, as of now, none deserve a top 10 pick, let alone #1. Extremely young. Productive. Versatile. Smart and tons of room to grow.

I'll give Engram a propoer watch. However, I just think that if you can't play inline at all, you're not adding a level of confusion for defenses. The whole point of a move TE is to ensure the defense keeps an extra linebacker on the field (because a TE is an extra blocker in the run game). But if I'm a defensive co-ordinator confronted by Engram, I put a CB/S on him and don't worry about any threat from him in the running game. And just one note on Hernandez, he was 20lbs heavier than Engram and did play inline at times. But, having said all that, I've not watched anyone to a serious level so I hope to see what you see in him. I liked your advocacy for him.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I'll give Engram a propoer watch. However, I just think that if you can't play inline at all, you're not adding a level of confusion for defenses. The whole point of a move TE is to ensure the defense keeps an extra linebacker on the field (because a TE is an extra blocker in the run game). But if I'm a defensive co-ordinator confronted by Engram, I put a CB/S on him and don't worry about any threat from him in the running game. And just one note on Hernandez, he was 20lbs heavier than Engram and did play inline at times. But, having said all that, I've not watched anyone to a serious level so I hope to see what you see in him. I liked your advocacy for him.

I love checking out your stuff and you do a great job here. I think you'll like him. The A&M clip shows off some nice blocking imo. Highlight clip is the obvious but it shows his versatility.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I'm firmly on the Engram bandwagon. I don't care if he can't block inline (and he does block better than any WR in the nation, even if he's not a Gronk/Bennett type blocker), because he can win downfield against any coverage. Yes, he he can be a Hernandez-esque chess piece, but he can also line up at WR and dominate with size and jump ball skills. I think of him more like an Alshon Jeffery or a Brandon Marshall, but with some TE responsibilities, too.

Every prospect has flaws, but when I watch Engram, I see a big slot guy who could take over for Amendola or Edelman down the road. Not the same physical profile, but they all run similar routes and can catch and improvise. I think he's going to be a great player.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

My question about engram, what position does he play in our offense. I think he will be a good pro, I just don't see the fit if they are bringing Bennett back.

Hernandez was criticized for his blocking, but he always had plus plus athleticm for a move TE. I think engram is a step below as a blocker and receiver. That's not a big shot, since AH should've been our best receiver, but without even AHs blocking, I don't see him cutting it inline.

Basically, for me, if you are drafting him, you think he can take over amendolas role. That will be the only position they will be drafting this year imo. Engram could be a monster underneath, but I also doubt his route running which won't work in that role.

Engram will end up around 30-50th in the draft, and there is no way I see the value at that stage for us. A team like Denver could use him quite a bit more than we can.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

I am all in on Garrett. I really think he is a generational talent at DE. If whoever is picking first drafts either kizer kaaya or Watson, will regret it immensely.

I don't have the same concerns about run defense, but he definitely has room to grow. He holds up his blocker well, but a little more patience would be nice to see.

He's also going to be one of the youngest players in the draft, which is nothing but a positive for his potential growth still.

I echo @BaconGrundleCandy about his team first attitude. He really seems incredibly poised, and well spoken. He just screams patriot player to me, so it's unfortunate we won't have a chance to see him as a Pat til he's in his mid 30s.

Even if some team traded the first overall pick to us, I would put the chances of keeping it at about 10%.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I'm firmly on the Engram bandwagon. I don't care if he can't block inline (and he does block better than any WR in the nation, even if he's not a Gronk/Bennett type blocker), because he can win downfield against any coverage. Yes, he he can be a Hernandez-esque chess piece, but he can also line up at WR and dominate with size and jump ball skills. I think of him more like an Alshon Jeffery or a Brandon Marshall, but with some TE responsibilities, too.

Every prospect has flaws, but when I watch Engram, I see a big slot guy who could take over for Amendola or Edelman down the road. Not the same physical profile, but they all run similar routes and can catch and improvise. I think he's going to be a great player.

Agreed. I see him the same way. One of my favorite prospects. Huge hands. Quick with some nice speed. Tough and will get in there.
I see some Hernandez, even Hines Ward in him. He's such a hybrid. Huge hands. Can jump. Block. Love him.