2016 Training Camp - Day 14 (8-15-16) [Bears Joint Practice]

[FredFromDartmouth]

"--The competitive portion of practice got rolling with 1-on-1 drills between the pass catchers and defenders. Maybe the most notable action in the work was Malcolm Butler getting beaten multiple times by Bears second-year receiver Kevin White. Butler struggled with the smaller, quicker Brandin Cooks last week against the Saints and this week has struggled with the bigger bodies of White (6-3) and Jeffery (6-3). Jeffery also beat Butler badly for a big gain in 1-on-1 work down the right sideline."


Ugh this really annoys me because I have been saying for years that height is very important at the CB and WR positions, and that the patriots Should have one good tall WR and one serviceable tall CB every year on the team. This year we don't. Some pats fans have actually tried arguing me that tall WRs don't fit in the patriots system. Weak argument.

Malcolm is a great young CB but he needs serious help against the good number 1s with size.

It is really, really hard to find tall CBs and most of them cannot cover. I would rather have a shorter CB that can cover versus a big galoot that cannot. Tall CBs are so rare that they are routinely overdrafted as you got to see in this' year's draft. I'll bet half of the ones drafted in the first round wash out.

Tall WRs are usually prima-donnas or just bad people, i.e. players that BB hates.

 

[manxman2601]

"--The competitive portion of practice got rolling with 1-on-1 drills between the pass catchers and defenders. Maybe the most notable action in the work was Malcolm Butler getting beaten multiple times by Bears second-year receiver Kevin White. Butler struggled with the smaller, quicker Brandin Cooks last week against the Saints and this week has struggled with the bigger bodies of White (6-3) and Jeffery (6-3). Jeffery also beat Butler badly for a big gain in 1-on-1 work down the right sideline."


Ugh this really annoys me because I have been saying for years that height is very important at the CB and WR positions, and that the patriots Should have one good tall WR and one serviceable tall CB every year on the team. This year we don't. Some pats fans have actually tried arguing me that tall WRs don't fit in the patriots system. Weak argument.

Malcolm is a great young CB but he needs serious help against the good number 1s with size.

We have a tall WR. He's called Gronk.

 

[captain stone]

...As far as corners, a shorter guy who can cover is better than a tall guy who can't.

And a tall corner who can cover is better than a short corner who can cover.

 

[jah]

The Butler did it.

After Butler showed that UDFA rookies get an equal chance to crack the Patriots' lineup as anyone, all the best undrafted talent wants to be here. CB is a position where a lot of ego and swag is part of the game, and those guys have got it. Now they're getting the chance to show it. So far it's looking good, as long as it does the trend will continue.

I wouldn't call it a trend yet. Coleman didn't choose to come here, we claimed him on waivers and then signed him off a practice squad. It's starting to look like a trend if Jones and/or LeBlanc pan out, though.

 

[Ring 6]

And a tall corner who can cover is better than a short corner who can cover.

Theoretically. But getting to the right spot means more than how tall you are when you arrive.

 

[n6249c]

I wouldn't call it a trend yet. Coleman didn't choose to come here, we claimed him on waivers and then signed him off a practice squad. It's starting to look like a trend if Jones and/or LeBlanc pan out, though.

Trend to which I was referring was UDFA rookies preferring the Pats. Bentley is another, as is DJ Foster (albeit not a CB). And in that larger context the team has a long standing history of UDFA additions becoming valuable contributors. Wasn't BJGE one? Butler just happened to show it on a very big stage in a very memorable fashion.

 

[patchick]

And a tall corner who can cover is better than a short corner who can cover.

And I'm certain that Bill Belichick agrees with you. (Remember how he traded for Aqib Talib at a point when Talib had scared most teams off?) But short of a franchise QB, nothing is harder to find than a guy over 6 feet tall with legitimate CB skills and athleticism. When one comes along, e.g. Marcus Peters, they're inevitably drafted far ahead of projections and usually out of the Patriots' reach.

I know you were unhappy with the Cyrus Jones pick based on height...it's intriguing that the CB pick right after him was James Bradberry, a consensus day-3 talent from a small conference who was drafted surprisingly high because of his size.

 

[jah]

Trend to which I was referring was UDFA rookies preferring the Pats. Bentley is another, as is DJ Foster (albeit not a CB). And in that larger context the team has a long standing history of UDFA additions becoming valuable contributors. Wasn't BJGE one? Butler just happened to show it on a very big stage in a very memorable fashion.

I agree about UDFAs in general.

 

[captain stone]

...it's intriguing that the CB pick right after him was James Bradberry, a consensus day-3 talent from a small conference who was drafted surprisingly high because of his size.

Yeah, I was very surprised about the Bradberry pick, and by the Brandon Williams pick by the Cardinals
at 92, immediately after the Pats picked Brissett (speaking of shockers).

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Please I would love to here your argument as to why? You think Julio Jones wouldn't succeed in our system?

The Patriots offense is more about precisely timed option routes with smaller receivers that are quick and can create space between the defender and catch a lot of balls

That being said, obviously it wouldn't hurt to have a larger WR as a target to go deep and they've been trying to find that guy for years now via the draft and free agency, so its not a lack of trying. The Patriots will likely never have an opportunity to draft a Julio Jones or a Dez Bryant, so they would have to make a blockbuster type trade to get a receiver like that which is not really Belichick's style..

Its rare that elite wide receivers with height and size ever hit free agency, but I suppose thats another way to try and get one.. could be waiting a LONG time for that opportunity though and a ****ty team with a lot of cap space would probably make them too expensive anyways

 

[captain stone]

...The Patriots will likely never have an opportunity to draft a Julio Jones or a Dez Bryant, so they would have to make a blockbuster type trade to get a receiver like that which is not really Belichick's style...

Would you settle for Golden Tate, Marvin Jones, Keenan Allen and Jeff Janis?

 

[Froob]

Randy Moss fit the Patriots system just fine.

Something that never gets mentioned about Moss is his intelligence, Brady said he was the smartest reciever he ever played with.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Would you settle for Golden Tate, Marvin Jones, Keenan Allen and Jeff Janis?

I wouldn't mind having any of those WR's, but it all depends on what it would cost to sign them. They aren't elite wide receivers other than maybe Allen but that is debatable IMO

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Would you settle for Golden Tate, Marvin Jones, Keenan Allen and Jeff Janis?

We traded the pick to Dallas and took Mccourty great player as well.

Keenan Allen we could of took same with Janis.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Would you settle for Golden Tate, Marvin Jones, Keenan Allen and Jeff Janis?

Golden Tate is 5-10.

Chris Hogan is the same weight or bigger than everyone you listed, and is one inch shorter than Allen and Jones, two inches shorter than Janis.

Do you have a point or are you just naming guys you had on your fantasy football team?

 

[captain stone]

I wouldn't mind having any of those WR's, but it all depends on what it would cost to sign them. They aren't elite wide receivers other than maybe Allen but that is debatable IMO

We traded the pick to Dallas and took Mccourty great player as well.

Keenan Allen we could of took same with Janis.

Golden Tate is 5-10.

Chris Hogan is the same weight or bigger than everyone you listed, and is one inch shorter than Allen and Jones, two inches shorter than Janis.

Do you have a point or are you just naming guys you had on your fantasy football team?

All of the listed WRs could have - and should have - been drafted by Bill, and not one of them would have cost a 1st-round pick.
And no Hercules, I do not play fantasy football. My point is that the excuse which homers use for the inexcusable lack of success drafting & developing WRs here - that we always draft too low in every round
to find All-Pro-caliber talent - is a complete fraud.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

All of the listed WRs could have - and should have - been drafted by Bill, and not one of them would have cost a 1st-round pick.
And no Hercules, I do not play fantasy football. My point is that the excuse which homers use for the inexcusable lack of success drafting & developing WRs here - that we always draft too low in every round
to find All-Pro-caliber talent - is a complete fraud.

Captain Hindsight never ceases to amaze with all of the Should Have Dones, and never seems to have once endorsed a player that turns out to be bad. It's an amazing talent you have.

The thread was talking about tall receivers who would fit the system, and Julio Jones was mentioned. The talk of drafting players too high and out of reach followed Julio Jones. While you are correct that there are big receivers available later this was simply you taking the 1500th opportunity to rip Belichick. Your act tires.