2015 Patriots.

[Deflatemyballs]

Collins and Hightower may be two of the better young linebackers in the game.

Collins has been referred to often times as a superstar in the making.

What a moron.

I've read Collins was an awful pick multiple times on this board

 

[Deflatemyballs]

Collins and Hightower may be two of the better young linebackers in the game.

Collins has been referred to often times as a superstar in the making.

What a moron.

Yeah I love our linebackers tell the people who ripped the Collins pick and ripped Hightower as a bust during his second year

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Collins and Hightower may be two of the better young linebackers in the game.

May be?

 

[Joey007]

May be?

My phones keyboard is so ****ed up...

 

[Ross12]

Imagine if the #1 & #2 CBs were Butler and Roberts and the defense was maybe not as good as last year but not that far off points and yards per game allowed.

Man would that make the mediots and chicken littles mad.

That would be awesome but it seems so unlikely. I can't envision Roberts being able to become a starting caliber CB in his rookie year... I guess it's possible but it feels very unlikely. Maybe next year though.

If Butler assumes #1 duties, which I think he is potentially capable of both from a talent and discipline perspective, I honestly think Fletcher can be a perfectly fine #2. He got burned frequently against elite WRs last year, but against average-to-good WRs I would think he would do just fine.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I want to talk real football! I think I'm more confident (or at least more hopeful) in the pass rush this year than you are. Based on the signing of Sheard and the draftees, it seems as though this will be a focus of the defense this season.

It's sure shaping up that way. It's gone through my mind more than once that before his Patriots SB rings, BB's first experience with an ultimate game-changer was with Lawrence Taylor, and that defense is - or once was - "home" for Belichick.

When it comes to "making the meal and shopping for the groceries," the flavors we're looking at are coverage and pressure, in very broad terms. It's really clear that most of the attention has gone to the front 7.

It's odd that BB had zero hesitation about turning over pretty much the whole defensive backfield. This would worry the frack out of me if it weren't BB. It's almost like he went overboard on purpose getting rid of D-backs, even relatively affordable ones. He's either got something weird planned re: the defensive backfield, or he's written it off in favor of pressure - which makes no sense, really. I mean, no matter HOW good the pressure is, the QB will be able to pass SOMETIMES. The belief appears to be that what we've got -- or that, plus what we're still targeting before the season starts -- will do it for the D-backs.

I'm curious and horrified all at the same time.

I think the plan is to get ahead of other teams with power running and high percentage passes to tight ends, and be up a fair amount in both score and time of possession 2/3 of the way into the game, forcing the opponent to go pass-heavy, which allows the D to hammer with the pass rush and put more DBs on the field to mitigate any deficiencies there.

As good an explanation as I've seen - that the plan is to be ahead and defend the pass when there's little run threat (i.e., getting optimal pressure from fewer in the "front 7," turning the front 7 to the front 6 or 5 or 4, and beat the passing game with pure numbers without regard to the quality of a given d-back.)

That's got a moneyball allure - while the league struggles to pay cornerbacks like they're quarterbacks, the Pats go the other route, and maximize value.

It just leaves one big yawning chasm of a question: What happens when the game is 0-0, and 7-7, and 14-7, etc. -- when we have not yet made the other team one-dimensional? I mean, it's the obvious question in this scenario... per the below...

Of course, if that doesn't work and the Pats get behind, it'll be harder, but Brady can still pull it off. It seems like this is a team better suited to play with a lead.

I also need to point out that Brady is still the best in the game, but he's the best in the game (now) at death by 1,000 cuts. As for quick strikes, there's some weaponry on the field, but nothing like the Moss/Welker days. (The question here isn't whether Edelman is as dangerous as Welker... it's whether he's as dangerous as Moss, and you know... no.) And Brady's more capable of the long ball than we often read but we're miles down the road from his peak performance in that regard (although he's not throwing Manning ducks).

So the offense is built to grind it out with more balance, on the ground or through the air, and the D is built to play from a lead.

Like I said, horrified and curious at the same time.

 

[Ross12]

It's sure shaping up that way. It's gone through my mind more than once that before his Patriots SB rings, BB's first experience with an ultimate game-changer was with Lawrence Taylor, and that defense is - or once was - "home" for Belichick.

When it comes to "making the meal and shopping for the groceries," the flavors we're looking at are coverage and pressure, in very broad terms. It's really clear that most of the attention has gone to the front 7.

It's odd that BB had zero hesitation about turning over pretty much the whole defensive backfield. This would worry the frack out of me if it weren't BB. It's almost like he went overboard on purpose getting rid of D-backs, even relatively affordable ones. He's either got something weird planned re: the defensive backfield, or he's written it off in favor of pressure - which makes no sense, really. I mean, no matter HOW good the pressure is, the QB will be able to pass SOMETIMES. The belief appears to be that what we've got -- or that, plus what we're still targeting before the season starts -- will do it for the D-backs.

I'm curious and horrified all at the same time.



As good an explanation as I've seen - that the plan is to be ahead and defend the pass when there's little run threat (i.e., getting optimal pressure from fewer in the "front 7," turning the front 7 to the front 6 or 5 or 4, and beat the passing game with pure numbers without regard to the quality of a given d-back.)

That's got a moneyball allure - while the league struggles to pay cornerbacks like they're quarterbacks, the Pats go the other route, and maximize value.

It just leaves one big yawning chasm of a question: What happens when the game is 0-0, and 7-7, and 14-7, etc. -- when we have not yet made the other team one-dimensional? I mean, it's the obvious question in this scenario... per the below...



I also need to point out that Brady is still the best in the game, but he's the best in the game (now) at death by 1,000 cuts. As for quick strikes, there's some weaponry on the field, but nothing like the Moss/Welker days. (The question here isn't whether Edelman is as dangerous as Welker... it's whether he's as dangerous as Moss, and you know... no.) And Brady's more capable of the long ball than we often read but we're miles down the road from his peak performance in that regard (although he's not throwing Manning ducks).

So the offense is built to grind it out with more balance, on the ground or through the air, and the D is built to play from a lead.

Like I said, horrified and curious at the same time.

Yeah, I would say we are on the same wavelength here. I think that "death by 1000 cuts" is still going to be the game plan as far as passing goes, in addition to the run game, but you've gotta think that 1000 cuts from Edelman, Gronk, Chandler and Wright/Davis/Derby will be harder to defend than if they were to Edelman, Gronk, LaFell and Amendola. Meaning more completions, meaning more time of possession, and likely more points.

 

[mgteich]

No one other than BlueThunder wants to talk about real football. I guess whining about the NFL and making uninformed opinions about Kraft's decisions is just more appealing.

There are others. Ian has indicated that soon we may have one consolidated deflategate thread going forward and many, many football threads. Then we won't have one thread to discuss 2015. We will have many, many. As has always been the case, we will likely discuss each unit, schemes, how individual players fit in, and so forth.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Yeah, I would say we are on the same wavelength here. I think that "death by 1000 cuts" is still going to be the game plan as far as passing goes, in addition to the run game, but you've gotta think that 1000 cuts from Edelman, Gronk, Chandler and Wright/Davis/Derby will be harder to defend than if they were to Edelman, Gronk, LaFell and Amendola. Meaning more completions, meaning more time of possession, and likely more points.

Dangerous game

But if there's anything BB doesn't shy away from it's danger in strategy/tactics.

Part of me is curious whether - if the 4-game suspension stands - the Pats are able to go 2-2 while sharpening the knives as regards the emerging scheme. We all know there's a chance that we go 0-4 with an effective rookie QB. But it's frightening to think what happens if the GOAT returns to lead a 3-1 squad.

 

[mgteich]

I know it's still early on but...

I don't think our offense will have any problem. Blount will continue to rumble through defenders... it's not a great running game, but it's more than serviceable. With Edelman, Gronk, Chandler, and LaFell, we have a passing attack as potent as the 2010 days. That should be enough to get us through Brady's suspension no worse than 1-3 or 2-2, even with Jimmy G. at the helm. Considering we started 2-2 last year, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I have confidence in the offense as a whole. However, I don't think that our running game is "more than serviceable".

RUNNING GAME
We had a balanced running game last year, with Ridley (and then Blount) as the primary 1st and 2nd round back. We had Vereen as the all purpose back, extremely important in the passing game.

Schemes will need to change. It seems most unlikely that Cadet and White will make up for the loss of Vereen.

With regard to Blount, can he really be counted on for almost all the reps in almost all of the games? Sure, we might get production from Gray or Gaffney, or not.

PASSING GAME
We've lost Vereen and Connolly. We've added Chandler, Cadet, Gibson and Dorsey. We may get production from Dobson or Tyms.

My worry is on passing downs. Who is the RB who will protect Brady and be productive as a receiver?

OVERALL
IMHO, we might still add a veteran running back, who could compete for 3rd down back. The offense is great, but it will be important to have a good 3rd down back.

 

[mgteich]

Now, the concern starts with the defense.
We have a decent front seven but there is still no pass rush. Chandler Jones is who he is and we can expect 10 sacks out of him. Ninko is about the same. Sheard is somewhat of an unknown on our defense. Hightower might step up and continue to improve at rushing the passer, but that is anything but a sure thing.

Our front seven is great, we have some playmakers... but as far as the pass rush alone is concerned, it's defintely not going to be one of the best in the league. Our interior DL has potential but they are just rookies (counting Easley as a rookie), and you can never be sure with rookies.

FRONT SEVEN
On paper it's really great. Injuries at LB is a concern, although adding Spikes is a major plus. Brown may or may not be a great player in his rookie year. However, we also have Branch and a healthier Siliga.

SAFETIES
Belichick added to the competition. This unit should be fine. McCourty is the rock.

CORNER
Belichick, a great defensive coach, thinks that has the answers at corner. If not, he wouldn't have cut Arrington and Dennard. My guess is that Fletcher/Ryan might be fine in zone. Butler may start instead of Ryan. McClain is our nickel back. Obviously, this makes little sense to many of us, Especially since Fletcher and McClain were only signed for one year.

It is likely that we will go into the next off season with the same huge #1 issue as this year.

 

[MassPats38]

Potential-wise, I like what I see. Blount has his limitations, so it will be interested in seeing how that turns out without Ridley given the other options on the team. Like the linemen and TEs added.

As for defensive concerns, love the LBs but the defensive front has to work. If the front seven cannot pressure the QB - it has the potential to do so - and cannot hold against the run, then the defensive unit will have its work cut out for it. Here's hoping the new pieces fall in place, and this in not another Starks experiment from 2005.

I am always optimistic that the Pats will figure it out, but there are plenty of moving parts in schemes and players that need to gel before that works out. The preseason will be more worth watching this year than in many previous years I can recall.

 

[mgteich]

Dangerous game

But if there's anything BB doesn't shy away from it's danger in strategy/tactics.

Part of me is curious whether - if the 4-game suspension stands - the Pats are able to go 2-2 while sharpening the knives as regards the emerging scheme. We all know there's a chance that we go 0-4 with an effective rookie QB. But it's frightening to think what happens if the GOAT returns to lead a 3-1 squad.

The last time the patriots were severely punished by the league, the patriots had one of the very best seasons in the history of the NFL.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The last time the patriots were severely punished by the league, the patriots had one of the very best seasons in the history of the NFL.

And the last time Brady took the first four games off we won a super bowl

 

[captain insano]

No one other than BlueThunder wants to talk about real football. I guess whining about the NFL and making uninformed opinions about Kraft's decisions is just more appealing.

yes complaining about losing 2 picks and four games without brady for psi is just whining. im surprised anybody wants to talk football when you consider what a joke of a league the nfl is. people should be angry about the nfl and kraft.

 

[Ross12]

Dangerous game

But if there's anything BB doesn't shy away from it's danger in strategy/tactics.

Part of me is curious whether - if the 4-game suspension stands - the Pats are able to go 2-2 while sharpening the knives as regards the emerging scheme. We all know there's a chance that we go 0-4 with an effective rookie QB. But it's frightening to think what happens if the GOAT returns to lead a 3-1 squad.

I haven't put a ton of thought into the success of the roster without Brady for 4 games, simply because I feel he is unlikely to miss much, if any, time. But for the sake of conversation, I think 2-2 is very reasonable and I feel even 3-1 is a possibilty.

PIT: With Le'Veon Bell suspended, it looks like the Steelers will start DeAngelo Williams, so the run game won't be much of a threat. It should allow the Pats to go max coverage to stop Antonio Brown; the other receivers there are decent, but not a big threat. Offensively, Jimmy G should be able to beat up on a relatively weak D which has had many players retire and is also changing defensive coordinators. WIN

@BUF: Who's the QB? Cassel? They have decent receivers but the QB is not threatening. LeSean McCoy has been good, but their offensive line isn't the best, and McCoy's best days may already be behind him. Offensively, Jimmy G may have a rough go against a pretty good Buffalo D and Ryan's schemes. I'm not sure which way this one will go. EVEN

JAX: Bortles is still raw, and so are their receivers, with many of them being 1st/2nd year players. I think they'll do more with their running game this year, but I can't envision Jacksonville doing a whole lot against the teeth of the Patriots' front 7, and Bortles isn't going carry the team on his back. Offensively, Jimmy G could put on a show. I think Gus Bradley will make the Jacksonville D respectable in time, but not by this point. WIN

---Convenient bye week to make adjustments to the offense and Jimmy's game---

@DAL: Yes, their offensive line is scary good. But who the heck is running behind it? Darren McFadden? Romo can be good at times, but is god-awful other times too. I think this is a similar situation to Pittsburgh, in that the running game isn't too scary and they have one elite WR but not a lot else. Sell out to stop Dez Bryant and force Romo to beat you with his secondary receivers. Offensively, Jimmy G will be more comfortable at this point, and there's really no one I see on Dallas' defense that can legitimately cover the Pats' TEs. But, AT&T Stadium can be an imposing place to play, so I think it could go either way. EVEN

So, I figure 2 wins and two games that could come down to the wire. 2-2, 3-1, either would be good and would allow Brady to kill it once he returns.

 

[neuronet]

t's odd that BB had zero hesitation about turning over pretty much the whole defensive backfield. This would worry the frack out of me if it weren't BB. It's almost like he went overboard on purpose getting rid of D-backs, even relatively affordable ones. He's either got something weird planned re: the defensive backfield, or he's written it off in favor of pressure - which makes no sense, really. I mean, no matter HOW good the pressure is, the QB will be able to pass SOMETIMES. The belief appears to be that what we've got -- or that, plus what we're still targeting before the season starts -- will do it for the D-backs.

But good pressure with mediocre backfield can sometimes go a long way (e.g., Giants in SB42).

I always go back to that Green Bay game this year, where the plan was basically "Give Rodgers all day to throw, and let our secondary take care of business." Remember that feeling seeing Rodgers have 8 or more seconds pretty much every play? So does Belichick.

I am really hopeful that he is indeed transforming our defense, the way he transformed our offense a few years back. I am looking forward to seeing people realize they f'd with the wrong genius.

OTOH, we could end up with minor tweaks on more of the same. At any rate, we can pretty much bet it will be some variant of the bend-but-don't break philosophy.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I haven't put a ton of thought into the success of the roster without Brady for 4 games, simply because I feel he is unlikely to miss much, if any, time. But for the sake of conversation, I think 2-2 is very reasonable and I feel even 3-1 is a possibilty.

PIT: With Le'Veon Bell suspended, it looks like the Steelers will start DeAngelo Williams, so the run game won't be much of a threat. It should allow the Pats to go max coverage to stop Antonio Brown; the other receivers there are decent, but not a big threat. Offensively, Jimmy G should be able to beat up on a relatively weak D which has had many players retire and is also changing defensive coordinators. WIN

@BUF: Who's the QB? Cassel? They have decent receivers but the QB is not threatening. LeSean McCoy has been good, but their offensive line isn't the best, and McCoy's best days may already be behind him. Offensively, Jimmy G may have a rough go against a pretty good Buffalo D and Ryan's schemes. I'm not sure which way this one will go. EVEN

JAX: Bortles is still raw, and so are their receivers, with many of them being 1st/2nd year players. I think they'll do more with their running game this year, but I can't envision Jacksonville doing a whole lot against the teeth of the Patriots' front 7, and Bortles isn't going carry the team on his back. Offensively, Jimmy G could put on a show. I think Gus Bradley will make the Jacksonville D respectable in time, but not by this point. WIN

---Convenient bye week to make adjustments to the offense and Jimmy's game---

@DAL: Yes, their offensive line is scary good. But who the heck is running behind it? Darren McFadden? Romo can be good at times, but is god-awful other times too. I think this is a similar situation to Pittsburgh, in that the running game isn't too scary and they have one elite WR but not a lot else. Sell out to stop Dez Bryant and force Romo to beat you with his secondary receivers. Offensively, Jimmy G will be more comfortable at this point, and there's really no one I see on Dallas' defense that can legitimately cover the Pats' TEs. But, AT&T Stadium can be an imposing place to play, so I think it could go either way. EVEN

So, I figure 2 wins and two games that could come down to the wire. 2-2, 3-1, either would be good and would allow Brady to kill it once he returns.

Love the conclusions/predictions, but they're rosy. I'm not saying we will be 0-4 or 1-3, and I think this is a .500 team with JG @QB. Once again, Cassel (ironic that it could be a Brady-less game vs. Buffalo) gives us some indication of our ability to adjust. Yes, the supporting cast is different, but even when it comes to Brady, the strength of the Patriot Way is that it's a team approach. If you were to pick one character in the cast as the "make or break guy" it's Brady. But we spent at least the first couple Super Bowls hearing about how he's really nothing special, it's "the system" that's winning games.

Agree that we win against Jax, barring an aberration. Disagree that we can discount many of the primary threats presented in games 1-4. Yes, we get to skip out on Bell - but with our own run attack "Blounted" for that game. DeAngelo Williams doesn't scare me either, but I could see Rapistberger making this a very rough start to the season - particularly since whatever we're dialing up in '15, it's going to still be raw and formative.

@ Dallas? McFadden might be the good McFadden, unless he takes the precaution of getting injured by that game. Romo/Bryant/Terrence Williams/Whatever's left of Witten is plenty to keep us busy; if the good McFadden shows up, could be very ugly. Your view of Jimmy G is pretty much like mine... he's comfortable by this point, and when thrust into action last year he held his own even if not comfortable. But "what if..." Jimmy G really is not that good? If nothing else - assuming the suspension holds up - we'll get a peep at the answer to that.

And so on. I suppose that's the hazard of predictions... it's not that much fun to be a fan without them of course. Big danger in the first 4 games of a hole to dig out of. ::Shrug:: that's the whole intent of the over-penalizing, if it sticks.

Months to go before we know these answers (unless the Brady appeal is unusually quick and positive).

This will be one of the more interesting seasons to watch, that's for sure.

 

[ashley]

I think our front 7 has the potential to be one of the best in the league and even better than last year. Like most Pat fans, I'm concerned about our secondary but we do have the best coach in the game with the best defensive game plans so I am hoping Bill can come up with something to kind of cover them up. In the back of my mind, I'm still kind of hoping we can make a trade for a top corner even though I know its kind of wishful thinking now.

 

[Ross12]

Love the conclusions/predictions, but they're rosy. I'm not saying we will be 0-4 or 1-3, and I think this is a .500 team with JG @QB. Once again, Cassel (ironic that it could be a Brady-less game vs. Buffalo) gives us some indication of our ability to adjust. Yes, the supporting cast is different, but even when it comes to Brady, the strength of the Patriot Way is that it's a team approach. If you were to pick one character in the cast as the "make or break guy" it's Brady. But we spent at least the first couple Super Bowls hearing about how he's really nothing special, it's "the system" that's winning games.

Agree that we win against Jax, barring an aberration. Disagree that we can discount many of the primary threats presented in games 1-4. Yes, we get to skip out on Bell - but with our own run attack "Blounted" for that game. DeAngelo Williams doesn't scare me either, but I could see Rapistberger making this a very rough start to the season - particularly since whatever we're dialing up in '15, it's going to still be raw and formative.

@ Dallas? McFadden might be the good McFadden, unless he takes the precaution of getting injured by that game. Romo/Bryant/Terrence Williams/Whatever's left of Witten is plenty to keep us busy; if the good McFadden shows up, could be very ugly. Your view of Jimmy G is pretty much like mine... he's comfortable by this point, and when thrust into action last year he held his own even if not comfortable. But "what if..." Jimmy G really is not that good? If nothing else - assuming the suspension holds up - we'll get a peep at the answer to that.

And so on. I suppose that's the hazard of predictions... it's not that much fun to be a fan without them of course. Big danger in the first 4 games of a hole to dig out of. ::Shrug:: that's the whole intent of the over-penalizing, if it sticks.

Months to go before we know these answers (unless the Brady appeal is unusually quick and positive).

This will be one of the more interesting seasons to watch, that's for sure.

Perhaps it is rosy thinking, but they're made on the assumption that Jimmy is good, which I think he is. If he is, with extra time spent running with the ones in training camp and preparing as the starter all of training camp, I think he can manage to win 3 of 4. If he's not good, and simply average (or worse), 1-3 is more likely. But even then, I think the team would put him in a very game-manager type role and focus heavily on running and easy passes.