2015 Draft Prospect Thread

[manxman2601]

Very nice. I was not aware of this. I second the recommendation on both Matt Waldman and Josh Norris. Very useful stuff, even though offensive skill position players aren't generally my priority.

It's why I didn't tell you about it

 

[Off The Grid]

The more college film I watch the more I feel like I'm really at the deep end of the pool. It's hard to know what to look for. I mean for some positions I have an easier time, like on the line. But sometimes it's really hard to evaluate and really know what to look for. It's not like just sitting back in the couch and watching the game and seeing "Yup, Kaepernick really scrambles his way out of there".

Do you guys have any books, articles, videos to read and watch? Really anything that can make me better at watching the game and on scouting. I feel like people in here seems to know what they are talking about, and I'd happily steal some of that knowledge.

My strongest starting recommendation would be that you go to Grid's website, fanaticalyankee.com, and look at his positional scouting reports. Grid has broken down each position (and in many cases, sub-types which in traditional positional designations) with a list of characteristics and their attributes that he looks for in prospects. Then his scouting reports for each prospect start by grading them for each of the relevant characteristics.

For example, Grid breaks "WRs" into "split ends" (bigger, taller and more physical WRs who excel over the middle and can move the chains), "flanker backs" (stretch the field WRs), and "flex wings" (slot receivers and smaller, quicker multi-purpose receivers). Factors such as ability to get separation, catching ability, route running (navigation) and blocking are general factors that are assessed, with differences for the different positional sub-types.

It's a brilliant system.

Very Gracious of you, Sir. Thank you!!

I should probably warn Brother Marin that my Site is as apt to confuse as to enlighten, unless you read intensively!! And I should also warn you that the Terminology has evolved over the course of the few Years that it's been working itself into shape, so looking at older Reports could confound you!!

 

[Off The Grid]

The more college film I watch the more I feel like I'm really at the deep end of the pool. It's hard to know what to look for. I mean for some positions I have an easier time, like on the line. But sometimes it's really hard to evaluate and really know what to look for. It's not like just sitting back in the couch and watching the game and seeing "Yup, Kaepernick really scrambles his way out of there".

Do you guys have any books, articles, videos to read and watch? Really anything that can make me better at watching the game and on scouting. I feel like people in here seems to know what they are talking about, and I'd happily steal some of that knowledge.

You're clearly Intelligent and Insightful, Brother Marin, so if you get drawn in to the Obsession level that consumes Brothers Manx, Mayo, and myself, I have no doubt that you'll get very good at it, and quite possibly far faster than you'd expect. It is quite akin to learning a new Language.

I can assure you that I haven't the faintest clue what I'm doing, but the Pursuit of Knowledge is a deliriously exciting one. There's always more to learn, and the Process is wonderfully rewarding.

01 ~ I agree with both Mayo and Manx that Draft BreakDown is a tremendous Resource. I watch Hours and Hours and Hours of their stuff, often over and over and over. Every Snap is a potential Treasure Trove of Clues to numerous Aspects of each Prospect's Potential!!

02 ~ NoonKick is my second favorite Resource. Unlike Draft BreakDown, they don't break down individual Prospects, so you've gotta do some serious trolling to get any Scouting done...But they show entire Games, which is pretty cool, and they're not shy about digging deep into the College FootBall Wilderness and giving you Tape of some pretty obscure Prospects, which is pretty awesome!!

03 ~ I also agree that it's wise to CrossCheck your Impressions against those of guys who've been doing this a lot longer and have seasoned eyes. They can help you ~ they've certainly helped me ~ develop a better sense of what to look for in lo a thousand little ways as you develop your Craft.

 

[Off The Grid]

Good questions. I will say this, it isn't easy. I learned a lot of what I know by following certain people on twitter. If you're on twitter, I can supply you with some good follows. I actually don't look too much at the specifics of how a player plays, things like pad level or hand usage for interior linemen etc. For me, I tend to get a general feel for a player just by watching him as much as possible on Draft Breakdown as Mayo recommended. If you' re trying to work out where a prospect might be graded, I find this guide useful from National Football Post:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Prospect-Grading-System.html

And as Mayo says, Brother Grid is outstanding at scouting talent (although his unique style is..well..unique). I wouldn't worry too much about the nitty gritty but I would urge you to watch the Draft Breakdown videos rather than games because it allows you to focus in on a prospect. The downside is that you lose the context.

There is one website I strongly recommend and that is The rookie scouting Portfolio . It's run by Matt Waldman and only focuses on offensive skill position players but it is a goldmine for scouting tips and inspiration. For example, the following video is a one and a half our video chat between him and Josh Norris (another name I'd recommend) and it's only about TJ Yeldon and Indiana RB Tevin Coleman. Now I only skipped through it but I learned more about scouting RBs just in the short time it took me to skip through the video as I have through three years of scouting the draft.



Anyway, don't fret, just spending time here with the likes of Mayo, Grid et al and you'll be just fine. The more the merrier and we all learn from each other.

Excellent Sentiments, Sir!! And thank you, too, for the gracious words!!

 

[mayoclinic]

I should probably warn Brother Marin that my Site is as apt to confuse as to enlighten, unless you read intensively!! And I should also warn you that the Terminology has evolved over the course of the few Years that it's been working itself into shape, so looking at older Reports could confound you!!

All true. But yours is the only site I can think of that uses a systematic approach to evaluating prospects, and uses it consistently. It's remarkable that no one else does. That's why I recommended looking at your site and evaluations to Brother Marin. It's a good way to start looking at prospects systematically - how are their route running, or their ability to flip their hips, or their lateral agility, or their ability to locate the ball. Many scouting reports either get too general and banal, too caught up in detailed terminology, or too obsessed with athleticism and workout metrics.

 

[mayoclinic]

You're clearly Intelligent and Insightful, Brother Marin, so if you get drawn in to the Obsession level that consumes Brothers Manx, Mayo, and myself, I have no doubt that you'll get very good at it, and quite possibly far faster than you'd expect. It is quite akin to learning a new Language.

I can assure you that I haven't the faintest clue what I'm doing, but the Pursuit of Knowledge is a deliriously exciting one. There's always more to learn, and the Process is wonderfully rewarding.

01 ~ I agree with both Mayo and Manx that Draft BreakDown is a tremendous Resource. I watch Hours and Hours and Hours of their stuff, often over and over and over. Every Snap is a potential Treasure Trove of Clues to numerous Aspects of each Prospect's Potential!!

02 ~ NoonKick is my second favorite Resource. Unlike Draft BreakDown, they don't break down individual Prospects, so you've gotta do some serious trolling to get any Scouting done...But they show entire Games, which is pretty cool, and they're not shy about digging deep into the College FootBall Wilderness and giving you Tape of some pretty obscure Prospects, which is pretty awesome!!

03 ~ I also agree that it's wise to CrossCheck your Impressions against those of guys who've been doing this a lot longer and have seasoned eyes. They can help you ~ they've certainly helped me ~ develop a better sense of what to look for in lo a thousand little ways as you develop your Craft.

I'll add another couple of thoughts:

- It's good to do multiple iterations. Keep an open mind, and be willing to revise your evaluations. Players develop or regress, injuries occur, systems and coaches change, etc.

- I generally try and identify "prospects of interest" early and follow them. Often I'm indebted to others on this board for calling my attention to players who are worth following. It's hard to have enough time to follow everyone. I followed Dion Jordan, because I was intrigued by a guy with his size and versatility; Manx pointed out to me that a guy down in Mississippi named Jamie Collins could do all of the same things, and was relatively overlooked.

- Use Combine and Pro Days to confirm or upgrade a prospect that you already like/dislike, and don't jump on the bandwagon because they are athletic freaks. But freakish athleticism can be a good marker for finding raw day 3/UDFA guys who could potentially develop.

- Remember that teams have access to medical data and background history that we don't, and which can have a huge impact.

- It's all about "trajectory" - it's not about how a prospect looks against college competition now, but about how you think they'll look in a couple of years in the NFL, hopefully on your team in your system. JJ Watt went from a developmental prospect to a raw starter to a stud with freakish athleticism to a solid rookie to the best defensive player in the NFL in 2 years.

- Do everything right, put tons of effort into it, spend hours watching film, develop your eye and mental acumen, and with luck you'll hit on about 50% of your evaluations. It's not easy.

 

[mayoclinic]

A guy who we haven't talked about much who is getting a lot of hype is Florida St. DT Eddie Goldman (6-4, 320#):

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...e-goldman-starting-to-live-up-to-all-his-hype

Goldman played end in a 4-3 set last year. He could play 4-3 NT, 3-4 NT, 3-4 DE and 4-3 Under LDE.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

There are so many great resources listed here I can't really add too much to it, but yes, watch film, lots of film. Try to go into each prospect with an open mind, do not let others influence your opinion before you have made your own. I was lucky enough to finally land a gig this year with nepatriotsdraft.com doing scouting reports after years of doing them for myself and for friends. In fact, here is a link for a report on Bernardrick McKinney.
http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2014...mississippi-st-vs-south-alabama.html#comments

The game I scouted for the article was against Soth Alabama. I did watch his game against LSU and for the most part I saw the same things both positively and negatively. I did think he worked through traffic a little better in the LSU game. It still really bothers me that he comes off the field for large stretches. In fact, when LSU made their late push, Bernardrick was nowhere to be found.

One resource I would like to mention is the one linked below. It gives a grading system and some things to look for at each position when scouting.

http://www.buffalobillsdraft.com/prospect-ranking-breakdown/

 

[Marinlik]

Really appreciate the tips! I think it will be really helpful to improve my knowledge of the game and in scouting. Awesome to have such helpful members here

Draftbreakdown is what I use now. I think it's awesome. Very good way to be able to watch a lot of a prospect without having to see all snaps of the game or try and find which snaps they played.

 

[captain stone]

...I do wonder if BB would be tempted to trade up if Fowler fell into the twenties. We might not need another Ninkovich now, but we might in a couple of years...

If the OL continues to provide Brady with the protection he has been currently receiving, then Bill might
not have to trade up as high as he has usually had to do…besides, we can use all the pass-rushing help
that we can grab.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

You're clearly Intelligent and Insightful, Brother Marin, so if you get drawn in to the Obsession level that consumes Brothers Manx, Mayo, and myself,

I hope by the next draft that I can prove to you guys I deserve to be in this class of intelligent draftniks.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I know he's not a 2015 prospect, but he's already won binkie status from me.

RB Tyler Varga, Yale

http://sportzedge.com/2014/09/27/ty...overtime-in-one-of-yale-bowls-greatest-games/

 

[manxman2601]

You can't see him but in between these two Maryland DBs, there's a WR. It's Kevin White of W Virginia and he make's the catch.



He's very good at making catches in traffic.

 

[manxman2601]

Good article (with a couple of gifs) on Ameer Abdullah. the size and lack of top end speed will probably keep Abdullah out of the first round but he see's things half a second before anyone else on the field and that's a rare gift.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-fo...eport-nfl-draft-nebraska-running-back-big-ten

Had another 200 yard game yesterday. That's three for the season already.

 

[mayoclinic]

Had another 200 yard game yesterday. That's three for the season already.

He's having a Barry Sanders kind of year, so far. Wow.

It wouldn't shock me to see White end up as a 1st round pick. And Abdullah is pushing top 40 at the moment. Both are impressive.

 

[manxman2601]

He's having a Barry Sanders kind of year, so far. Wow.

It wouldn't shock me to see White end up as a 1st round pick. And Abdullah is pushing top 40 at the moment. Both are impressive.

My only question about White is his lack of explosion and speed which I haven't really seen yet, albeit on limited views. I wonder whether he ends up as a 4.5 guy in the forty.

 

[manxman2601]

It's a good day when there's a new Zach Hodges video up at Draft Breakdown. If you want to know what I see in him, then take a look at his sack at 0:20 in the embedded vid.

 

[manxman2601]

The Ourlads scouting service have a top 32 big board out with some interesting names. Of note, particularly to Mayo and I is Alvin "Bud" Dupree who they rank at 16. I'm a big fan and if the write up is accurate, I might be more so:

Three-year productive starter as both a defensive end and outside linebacker. Has an athletic skill set that combines his size, strength, and football intelligence to create big plays for the Wildcats. Listed in the SEC’s top 10 for the past two years in sacks (13.5) and tackles for loss (22). Moves easily for a big man. A fast twitch athlete who plays well on his feet or with his hand in the dirt. Explosive first step quickness to get off on the snap and lateral quickness to contain the outside run. Can bend the edge of a defense and come flat down the line. Has good hand quickness and a closing burst to the quarterback. Good pass rush effort. An edge pass rusher who looks the part including his 40.5 inch vertical jump to get into the passing lanes. Collected 91 total tackles as a sophomore and 61 tackles as a junior.

That's in addition to a reported 4.59 forty time.

http://www.ourlads.com/top-32-college-senior-prospects/nfl-draft/2015/2592129

They also have Virginia safety Anthony Harris as a late first rounder. I had him in my first mock as a potential Patriot mock. Very Jimmy Ward/Devin McCourty-ish although I don't like him quite as much as I do them.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Watching this Bengals game and Im convinced even with Ridley performing decently that when he's gone next year, TJ Yeldon would be a great replacement. Since that would probably require a substantial draft choice we can use it on Amari Cooper instead.

 

[jr_3421]

My only question about White is his lack of explosion and speed which I haven't really seen yet, albeit on limited views. I wonder whether he ends up as a 4.5 guy in the forty.

The thing that impresses me, especially considering the offense that we run, is that WVU uses him in the short pass/screen game pretty effectively. Thats the one aspect that bigger receivers have trouble with here in NE.