2014 Patriots Offense: Championship Caliber?

[Froob]

Our Superbowl losses seemed to be the result of;
1. Offensive line or was it the great NY D-line
2.Terrible secondary.
3. Drops and a miracle catch

Both of those Super Bowls are on the offense. Two of the best offenses in the league couldn't score 18 & 20(minus the safety) to win the Super Bowl? Embarrassing. Yeah the defense gave up timely drives to win the Super Bowl but the defense actually played well if you look at the whole games.

 

[Oswlek]

Our Superbowl losses seemed to be the result of;
1. Offensive line or was it the great NY D-line
2.Terrible secondary.
3. Drops and a miracle catch

4. Walking boots.

 

[condon84]

Depends on our OL.

Brady is still one of the best QBs and can find the open man or soft spot in the zone if he's given time. Gronk is elite. Edelman and Amendola are very good. Dobson can be very good. Vereen might be the best receiver coming out of the backfield in the NFL. Thomkins and LaFell are pretty good 4th and 5th options.

If our OL does it's part, we should again be top 3 offense.

 

[Oswlek]

Depends on our OL.

Brady is still one of the best QBs and can find the open man or soft spot in the zone if he's given time. Gronk is elite. Edelman and Amendola are very good. Dobson can be very good. Vereen might be the best receiver coming out of the backfield in the NFL. Thomkins and LaFell are pretty good 4th and 5th options.

If our OL does it's part, we should again be top 3 offense.

They are likely a top 3 offense even with a sketchy OL. They were last year and that was with a dearth of receiving weapons.

Anyone thinking NE might not be a top 5 offense this year (assuming Brady stays healthy, of course) can disregard that right now. The only question is how they fare in the playoffs.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

The fact is that in 83% of the games that occurred in that 9 game postseason run (01-04), it was the defense that won the games for us. The offense in those games weren't scoring much more than they have lately.

By even taking out ONE game of a NINE game stretch, you'd still get results that are quite similar--forget about the second half of the '03 SB that was tied 0-0 at halftime.

By the end of the 2004 season, our offense had come a long way since the 2001 inception, and that's why the numbers for that AFCCG show a skew from the previous 8 games. The fact is that over the course of those 9 games where we won 3 SB's it was the defense allowing an average of 14-15 ppg, and the offense wasn't scoring anything outside of the late teens on average.

I think 8/9 games shows a pretty solid pattern, and would be enough that the majority of people here would want to be reminded that our defense was carrying us.

The pattern looks solid to you because you cherry picked it to torture it to what you want to believe

The defense in SB 42 gave up 17 points and didn't hold a lead. The defense in SB 36 gave up 17 points and didn't hold a lead. The difference was in SB 36.....the offense got the ball back with time enough to go win the game. Ditto the defense in SB 38.

The reality is since the reality of SB 36 and 38 don't fit what you want to believe.....you simply choose to ignore.

A few things to consider

Denver never actually drove the ball in the 2005 Division game.....turnovers decided the game.

2006 was a defensive meltdown yet the offense had a chance to close the game and went "3 and out". Watch the game.

Ditto 2007. The defense averaged giving up 16.3 points in the playoffs....hardly different.

In the 2009 and 2010 losses......6 of the 10 opponent scoring drives started already in field goal range.
You would never know that because reality doesn't fit the pattern for what you want to believe.

Is field position is important?

Sorry dude. I'm a huge Gronk fan if I may say but he is not the best offensive weapon in football. That would be Calvin Johnson. Best on the Pats though

Hey Sport, you seem to like miss something................

Like Detroit loses with and without Calvin Johnson.............

Quite the "difference maker", huh?

 

[PatsFan2]

Here is some questions which WR sits on Gameday? Would BB activate all 5? Ps. Slater does not count as a WR in my book. Our WR's group is the Best group Brady has had since he's been here hard to believe that. Other than Edelman and Amendola this group is not lacking Size Lafell looke like a TE, Dopson is Tall fast WR Thompkins at 6'1 is gritty and fast! I know the 2007 Offense was Great but on paper just looking at this group injuries wouldn't derail them much. We have alot of interchangeable parts especially at WR...we are going to give Defenses some problems. That was our WR's did I mention our TE's and RB's with Vereen and Develin out of our backfield?

 

[MrNathanDrake]

look at seattles offense last year

 

[mayoclinic]

Here is some questions which WR sits on Gameday? Would BB activate all 5? Ps. Slater does not count as a WR in my book.

Assuming 21 offensive players active on game day, that means 4 guys have to sit. Probably 2 OLs sit (we've had 7 active in the past), leaving 2 "skill" players. I assume that injuries and team-specific game plans will dictate a lot. I can certainly imagine some games for which 5 WRs could be active, with Hooman, Develin or a RB inactive. If we have 5 healthy receivers, this will be a nice dilemma to have.

 

[PatsFan2]

Thanks Mayo way to crunch the numbers.

 

[PatFanCraig]

Our 2TE set 2.0 with Gronk and Wright should be better. There are now 2 tall athletic WRs who are sudden in their breaks and have better than 4.45 speed, oh and BTW both can jump around36" and highpoint the football to stretch a defense. However Hernandez is shiftier and more elusive than Tim wright. However Wright can find space within really tight zones

 

[supafly]

The pattern looks solid to you because you cherry picked it to torture it to what you want to believe

I stated right off the bat that the 2004 AFCCG vs PIT was the clear outlier, where the offense clicked from the get-go and the defense wasn't as much of a factor.

That leaves 7.5 out of the other 8 games during that SB winning span which clearly shows that the offense wasn't scoring much (most of them in the teens), and that the defense was carrying the team.

I have no idea why you're bringing up any other time period, or why you're talking about 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011? I'm speaking of the 9 game run from 2001--2004.

How can you honestly act like this didn't happen when you'd have to go into the 6th game to even find anything close to act as cherry picking? Aside from the AFCCG in 2004 (already discussed), the only other 2 games were offensive outputs of 20 and 24. Obviously, there is a pretty clear pattern here.

#1---offense scores 16

#2---offense scores 10

#3---offense scores 13

#4---offense scores 17

#5---offense scores ONE touchdown, and 5 FG's

 

[captain stone]

This OL is simply not SB-caliber; in fact, it is very likely the worst in Bill's now 15th season here.
I just don't see how these under-talented, try-hard stiffs at the interior positions can withstand
what will be coming on every single passing down. And if Solder & Vollmer start whiffing on more blocks or get injured more often, then God help us.

 

[PatCat]

The pattern looks solid to you because you cherry picked it to torture it to what you want to believe

The defense in SB 42 gave up 17 points and didn't hold a lead. The defense in SB 36 gave up 17 points and didn't hold a lead. The difference was in SB 36.....the offense got the ball back with time enough to go win the game. Ditto the defense in SB 38.

The reality is since the reality of SB 36 and 38 don't fit what you want to believe.....you simply choose to ignore.

A few things to consider

Denver never actually drove the ball in the 2005 Division game.....turnovers decided the game.

2006 was a defensive meltdown yet the offense had a chance to close the game and went "3 and out". Watch the game.

Ditto 2007. The defense averaged giving up 16.3 points in the playoffs....hardly different.

In the 2009 and 2010 losses......6 of the 10 opponent scoring drives started already in field goal range.
You would never know that because reality doesn't fit the pattern for what you want to believe.

Is field position is important?


Hey Sport, you seem to like miss something................

Like Detroit loses with and without Calvin Johnson.............

Quite the "difference maker", huh?

No

4. Walking boots.

The pattern looks solid to you because you cherry picked it to torture it to what you want to believe

The defense in SB 42 gave up 17 points and didn't hold a lead. The defense in SB 36 gave up 17 points and didn't hold a lead. The difference was in SB 36.....the offense got the ball back with time enough to go win the game. Ditto the defense in SB 38.

The reality is since the reality of SB 36 and 38 don't fit what you want to believe.....you simply choose to ignore.

A few things to consider

Denver never actually drove the ball in the 2005 Division game.....turnovers decided the game.

2006 was a defensive meltdown yet the offense had a chance to close the game and went "3 and out". Watch the game.

Ditto 2007. The defense averaged giving up 16.3 points in the playoffs....hardly different.

In the 2009 and 2010 losses......6 of the 10 opponent scoring drives started already in field goal range.
You would never know that because reality doesn't fit the pattern for what you want to believe.

Is field position is important?


Hey Sport, you seem to like miss something................

Like Detroit loses with and without Calvin Johnson.............

Quite the "difference maker", huh?

Quarter back play and overall scheme dictates how much of a difference maker one can be and Gronk plays in a system that lends itself to a players success on the field. Just saying overall Calvin Johnson is the best receiving option in the NFL point blank period, you would be hard pressed to prove otherwise and would have very few to agree with you that gronk is the best offensive weapon in the league. I can name you a few more that are better offensive weapons if you wish my friend.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

No



Quarter back play and overall scheme dictates how much of a difference maker one can be and Gronk plays in a system that lends itself to a players success on the field. Just saying overall Calvin Johnson is the best receiving option in the NFL point blank period, you would be hard pressed to prove otherwise and would have very few to agree with you that gronk is the best offensive weapon in the league. I can name you a few more that are better offensive weapons if you wish my friend.

Yeah......no wonder we have problems here. Another post like this and you will be a prime candidate for a milk carton.

1. Sorry Sport, players make scheme not the other way around. Based on your "thinking", it seems like Detroit is purposely devising offenses to make Calvin Johnson a loser. Matt Stafford is a former first pick with a bazillion stats......why you somehow think Detroit is QB deficient is really quite bizarre.

My guess it that it simply never dawned on you that BB was attracted to Gronk for the simple reason he needs superior weapons to execute his scheme. try channeling TB from week 2 last year and see how your "thinking" works in practice.

2. "Best weapons" are those players that help win football games.....maybe nobody told you in the fantasy league but the NFL is about winning games. Once you grasp that....you'll see the errors of your ways.

3. Detroit can lose with or without Calvin Johnson. They have proven that over the years. Gronk is a different story. Unfortunate but it appears you have never really understood that.

 

[PatCat]

Yeah......no wonder we have problems here. Another post like this and you will be a prime candidate for a milk carton.

1. Sorry Sport, players make scheme not the other way around. Based on your "thinking", it seems like Detroit is purposely devising offenses to make Calvin Johnson a loser. Matt Stafford is a former first pick with a bazillion stats......why you somehow think Detroit is QB deficient is really quite bizarre.

My guess it that it simply never dawned on you that BB was attracted to Gronk for the simple reason he needs superior weapons to execute his scheme. try channeling TB from week 2 last year and see how your "thinking" works in practice.

2. "Best weapons" are those players that help win football games.....maybe nobody told you in the fantasy league but the NFL is about winning games. Once you grasp that....you'll see the errors of your ways.

3. Detroit can lose with or without Calvin Johnson. They have proven that over the years. Gronk is a different story. Unfortunate but it appears you have never really understood that.

You are totally taking my point out of context and defending yourself way too much dude. Matt Stafford is good but not TB good. Secondly with anything in sports its about winning obviously, too make my point all i was implying was that Rob gronkowski is not the best offensive weapon in football. Not even the best tight end in most peoples opinion, you made a statement that wasn't true. Accept it and move on

 

[PatCat]

Both of those Super Bowls are on the offense. Two of the best offenses in the league couldn't score 18 & 20(minus the safety) to win the Super Bowl? Embarrassing. Yeah the defense gave up timely drives to win the Super Bowl but the defense actually played well if you look at the whole games.

For the most part yes, but it just seemed like the Defense couldn't hold in the key moments.

 

[PatCat]

This OL is simply not SB-caliber; in fact, it is very likely the worst in Bill's now 15th season here.
I just don't see how these under-talented, try-hard stiffs at the interior positions can withstand
what will be coming on every single passing down. And if Solder & Vollmer start whiffing on more blocks or get injured more often, then God help us.

Scary

 

[PATS16N0]

If Gronk stays healthy, we basically know what we have, which is an elite offense (#1 in the league) that's terribly difficult to stop. We know exactly what it will look like, with players catching balls out of the back field, Edelman tearing it up in the slot, no huddle rushing attacks and Gronk destroying everyone down the seam.

For me the big question is Amendola. If Amendola starts living up to his signing hype, with a healthy Edelman certain to repeat his 2013 performance, and all our other tools, then we could really be deadly.

We could potentially by more offensively potent and dynamic this year than we were in 2012, which was something else.

 

[mgteich]

Scary

Which is scary? The absolutely awful patriot offense or the captain's analysis?

 

[Brady6]

This is a few things to keep in mind about the offense:

- Rob Gronkowski is healthy and seems determined to play a full season; he has a chip on his shoulder and is out to prove the naysayers wrong.
- Dobson is entering his second season in the NFL; he showed well in the last preseason game and should make the leap in year 2.
- Thompkins is entering his second season in the NFL: he has made significant improvements based on his camp and preseason showings.
- Amendola is entering his second season as a Patriot, and he is not being relied on to carry the load so this should help with his durability this season, he should perform well as a complementary piece.
- Edelman is entering his second season as a full time starter and the lead target in the offense; he showed dramatic improvement over the final 8 games last season and looked sensational in camp and the preseason.
- LaFell is a big addition in my opinion, he is a Joker that can be used inside and outside, he will be a nice complementary piece, and he brings durability to a group that has injury concerns.
- Vereen is entering his second season as the full time third down running back, and he is healthy, I think he is going to have an amazing season, pro bowl worthy.
- White is going to give us the ability to run a 2 running back offense; this should give us some nice third down packages.
- The offensive line needed change, and honestly, when you want to send a message and make a major change removing the most notable member of a group can shake things up. The players like Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Connolly, Wendell, etc. know that if Mankins can be shipped out of town their leash is not very long either, which = motivation.
- Wright is a great addition; I think he can do just about everything Hernandez did, without the drops and without the durability issues. The ability to run out of a 12 personnel package is great for this team.
- Develin is entering his second season as a NFL player, he improved significantly over the course of last season, I expect that to continue in 2014.

When you consider all of these things, I do not think it is a question of is the offense championship worthy, I think it is a question of is this the best offense in the NFL.