Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by everlong, Mar 5, 2013.
Allen is pretty conspicuous by his omission. They either love him or hate him.
As I said in the Honey Badger thread, I love the guy but where does that leave Arrington who has looks "less than good" as an outside CB.
It's a depth move and add's flexibility.. Arrington wasn't the problem in the AFCCG it was M. Cole.. Injuries happen and if that means Arrington spends some time on the outside there is no drop off..
Remember who our backup is for Outside CB . Ras I ... need I say anymore when it comes to making sure that we have an adequate backup.. Arrington does a fine job in spot duty.
Plus he has value on special teams which is a huge bonus to BB.
Not sure if this counts as contact:
Tony Pauline ‚ÄŹ@TonyPauline 1m
Dalton Freeman/C/Clemson drawing heavy interest from NE Patriots..private workout with Atlanta Falcons & visiting the KC Chiefs next week..
My thoughts exactly.
Drafting Tyrann Mathieu would be a great insurance to Arrington as our nickelback in case of injury and spot up duty. That would likely push Cole off the game day roster or even perhaps the roster completely. Marquice had no business being anything more than a special teamer only. At least Mathieu has shown in college to be an above average slot corner who offers much more in the special team department that Cole ever could.
In round 3 if the Sanders offer doesn't go over then Tyrann would be a great option at pick #91. I truly believe the Pats are just one more talented NCB from having a full solid CB unit.
PS: For the sake of staying OT;
Phillip Thomas, SS, Fresno State
I think that's dependent on Dowling's status. If they're happy with him then great, otherwise. I'd like to see and additional outside CB because I don't want to see Arrington out there. This is why I'd rather have McFadden than Mathieu - because he can play both nickel and outside. I like Mathieu's value as a playmaker but I do think he's very limited in where he fits an NFL team.
Thanks for the info on Philip Thomas - missed that.
At just under 5'9, Mathieu will only be able to match up against WRs and then, not the taller ones like Anquan Boldin and I question whether he'd be able to handle Victor Cruz.. Mathieu would be worthless against the big TEs like Moeki, Keller, Dickson, etc... So I have a hard time thinking that he'd "shut down the slot"..
I think everything with the CB unit as a whole in terms of drafting/signings, etc., hinges on how the coaching staff views Dowling. If they, like myself, view him as a long term Talib replacement if Aqib flames out or as a potential starter alongside Talib given his potential when healthy there's not that much of a need for a strictly outside CB. As Dennard would be their direct back-ups in the event of injury/depth. I think this is the best case scenario. A starting tandem of Talib and Dowling matches up against all these other great WR tandems that the Patriots will be seeing next season like Denver and Atlanta and too a lesser degree other good WR corps from New Orleans, Houston, and Miami.
If the coaching staff, like many people around do, view him as a bust and failed draft pick who cannot be relied upon then you do draft another outside CB who could potentially man the slot as well like McFadden to be a depth/back-up to Talib and Dennard. I view this scenario as a downgrade, because although Dennard filled in admirably last season with his physical style of play a Talib/Dennard starting tandem is a probably not as good, as I believe Dowling if/when healthy is more talented than Dennard.
The reality is though the Patriots biggest need in the CB unit is a adept back-up in the slot to Arrington. While he has no business being an outside CB, ever, if Arrington's forced into that role due to injuries or poor play then you want a capable back-up who can step into his spot and not be a complete liability like Cole was in the AFCCG. This is where I believe a player of Mathieu's caliber comes into play. Though someone who can play both outside and in the slot equally is more desirable than Tyrann because not only would they be a back-up to Arrington but also that 4th outside CB in case of injury with Talib and Dowling's health concerns who will also be asked to be a core special teamer. So essentially one player to back-up 2 spots making it easier to carry 5-6 CBs at most on the roster than 7-8 or whatever.
But we have to remember that its extremely difficult to find a player of that skill level in rounds 3-7 if not at all. Want to know the guy who almost is all those things? Kyle Arrington. Hence why he got paid like it. For the record McFadden has a 2nd grade on most draft boards. Though if he somehow falls to 91, make no mistake about it, you take him above Tyrann easily. McFadden is the better prospect but the chances of him falling that far are slim. I believe rounds 1 and 2 should be devoted to WR and DT as those are greater needs but as stated above if the coaching staff isn't thrilled with Dowling's development to this point then perhaps another high draft on a CB is in the cards. The tea leaves suggest otherwise, but hey, stranger things have happened.
Though I agree with you wholeheartedly, the Patriots should always be looking to find another type of player like that but can actually play the slot and on the outside without being a liability unlike Arrington.
And you're welcome.
I think he could handle Cruz but having him cover TE's is a legit concern. When looking at Cruz, Welker, Amendola and that type I think he's physical and quick enough to take them away. But with the TE's what slot corner does match up well with them? Potentially if he could stay on the field a player like Dowling but not Arrington and he's the starting slot right now.
That depends on what you mean as "slot corner". If you're just referring to smaller nickel CBs that play in the slot then its very difficult to find ones that can match well in coverage against the ever growing pool of athletic TE pass catchers.
Though there are lots of players who play the slot that aren't CBs only that can completely shut down even the most athletic TEs in the NFL. Players like Eric Berry prior to his knee injury and in the latter half of last season played exceptional coverage in the slot on TEs. As is did Tyvon Branch, specifically the Patriots game against the Raiders in 2011 - his coverage on Gronkowski for the majority of that game was breathtaking. That was the only game I've seen in Rob's career, when healthy, that I can legitimately say he was made a complete non-factor as a pass catcher when covered by one player for the majority of a game.
Both of those player examples are of the bigger in-the-box variety type safeties who excel in pass coverage. You wouldn't want to put a small-quick CB in the role unless he has great physicality and toughness to not be a complete liability in an obvious mismatch situation. Dowling's hip injuries have made him too stiff to play the slot against those quick-twitch types but if he's healthy perhaps he could too match up those bigger athletic TEs. He certainly possesses the skills to do it (when healthy). The best player on the Patriots roster to man that role of TE coverage in the slot is probably Tavon Wilson since we don't have a fully healthy LB adept at it. While he does not possess elite athleticism like those safeties mentioned above, from what he has shown last season I think he has the right tools to be above average in that role.
As for Tyrann, he does a lot of things well but putting him on a 6 ft 4+, 250 lb+ TE with the speed and athleticism of a big WR, and expecting him to thrive in that role is just setting the kid up for failure. Team roles should be about maximizing strengths and minimizing weaknesses, not the other way around.
And to once again stay OT if not already posted RE: Ellington & Freeman;
That's a 2nd contact for Hopkins and yet another RB.
From Mike Reiss:
Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston
i wouldnt mind BWW in the third or if we traded down and got him in the late 2nd but i wouldnt mind him
Crossing my fingers on Hopkins. That would be a fantastic way to start out the draft.
From April 1st DraftInsider.net News & Notes (can't link yet)
- Former Missouri running back Derrick Washington, who lit it up at Tuskegee last season, is visiting the Kansas City Chiefs and has a private workout scheduled with the New England Patriots.
One of my faves.
seems like looking through who they want to get in UDFA since we have so many spots
Opurum sounds like a Patriot. Fullback recruit that led the team in rushing his first year, then became a linebacker and defensive end. Has sub-4.6 speed at 250 pounds. Definitely not a DE prospect at his size, but could be an ILB conversion prospect. His height, weight, and 40 time are all essentially the same as Dane Fletcher's, both basically 6' 1¬Ĺ", 250 pounds, with 4.6 speed.
Also probably worth pointing out that Charlie Weis was the coach at Kansas this past season.
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