2012 Surprises/Disappointments

[JackBauer]

The pot calling the kettle black.

If the Pats listened to Jack, Maroney, Chad Jackson, Bethel, Wlihite, Butler would all still be on the team.

Wow, what a terrific rejoinder.

Let's not forget that you're arguing for a guy who has 700 yard receiving in his entire career (oh, and he can't stay healthy, either) to take over for the guy who's good for 100+ recs and 1,000 yards year consistently.

I honestly don't know what's more sad: that you'd attempt to advance such a lousy argument, or what you're apparently completely unaware how lousy your argument actually is.

 

[PlainOldEd]

Are you close with his treating physician? 4 weeks according to whom? If you'll recall, the snap consensus when the freak injury occurred was insta-IR.

I always get a kick when people question Hernandez' toughness when he's been gutting it out there on one wheel. You'd be better off sticking to your other keen observations, like how Ninkovich is the worst starter in the league.

And if anyone knows tough, it's Jack Bauer.........

 

[Triumph]

Wow, what a terrific rejoinder.

Some real gems from you over the years indeed.

I can understand you wanting to keep Welker (actually good) after youve fought so hard over the years for studs like Maroney and Chad Jackson (2 bums working at McDonalds today)

Let's not forget that you're arguing for a guy who has 700 yard receiving in his entire career

So, Edelman cant improve on those numbers playing the slot full time?

Brady has alot to do with Welker putting up those numbers.

(oh, and he can't stay healthy, either)

Edelman played 11 games in 2009 (broken forearm), 15 in 2010, and 13 in 2011. Even this year he managed 9. Edelman has missed 16 games in 4 seasons. He needs to learn to go down after the catch.

to take over for the guy who's good for 100+ recs and 1,000 yards year consistently.

Big deal.

Older players get injured too.

The Pats have won 3 Super Bowls with Troy Brown playing the slot. Where is it written in stone that the Pats slot WR must have 100 receptions per season? The Pats have more weapons today than those Super Bowl teams. And, like Ive already stated, NE needs an injection of youth into the WR position.

I honestly don't know what's more sad: that you'd attempt to advance such a lousy argument, or what you're apparently completely unaware how lousy your argument actually is.

Im pointing out that Edelman has shown enough this season that he can play the slot in 2013 which is accurate. Too bad that gets your underwear all in bunch.

Whats really sad is that you cannot read. I never stated that Edelman would put up Welkers numbers or even come close.

 

[Coog548]

The biggest surprise is one of the units not a player. The oline has played very well this season. After a offseason of " Please resign Brian Waters" we saw the line come together and play much better than expected. Between Brady not getting sacked and the running backs having the holes that allowed them to close out games, they played great. This preseason they looked awful.

A player that did not live up to the hype is goskowski. No trust in him right now. Missed some kicks that could of really built the trust needed in the playoffs.

 

[TFB*]

Branchs history, Moss's history, Givens history, Pattens history.

Do you think that Welker will put up the same numbers that he is today on a different team ?

Because thats what his value is based on isnt?

Well... the Broncos need a slot receiver. And yes, I think he'd have a *similar* output if he ends up in ATL, GB, Denvah, NO, etc. If we let WW walk and he went to Denver I would literally kill someone. That someone hopefully being the forehead.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Edelman has missed 16 games in 4 seasons.

playing spot minutes, mostly on special teams, he's hurt far more than the guy you want him to replace

Matthew Slater has played more games and it doesn't make him a capable WR either

 

[JackBauer]

Im pointing out that Edelman has shown enough this season that he can play the slot in 2013 which is accurate. Too bad that gets your underwear all in bunch.

Whats really sad is that you cannot read. I never stated that Edelman would put up Welkers numbers or even come close.

Actually, what's really sad is that you can't maintain a logically consistent argument from one line to the next. You say that Edelman has demonstrated enough to warrant playing him in the slot next year (by virtue of his whopping 9 GP, 21 recs and 235 yards receiving), while at the same time admitting he's unlikely to replicate Welkers numbers "or even come close." That we should replace by far the best WR on the team - a guy who had been putting up HoF numbers - with a guy who looks demonstrates in flashes but who has never exceeded 359 yards receiving in a season. So, basically, you want to replace Welker with a guy who has demonstrated, at his peak, the ability to put up ... one quarter of WW's typical numbers. While we're at it, why don't we replace Mankins with Donald Thomas!?

I thought Ivan was being overwrought with his Welker posts, but it turns out there are people dumb enough out there making the very arguments he's inveighing against.

 

[NormZauchin]

playing spot minutes, mostly on special teams, he's hurt far more than the guy you want him to replace

Matthew Slater has played more games and it doesn't make him a capable WR either

You make a point that is overlooked by most. How many injuries a player sustains is affected by both his durability and the number of plays in which he participates. Gronk missed five games with the broken arm, but last season and this season, until he got hurt, he was out there for almost every offensive play. Not so with Edelman.

 

[Get it shawtaay]

Share your thoughts?

Surprises:
Justin Francis
Brandon Deaderick
Chandler Jones
Alfonzo Dennard
Stevan Ridley
Ryan Wendell
Julian Edelman
Donald Thomas
Brandon Bolden
Jermaine Cunningham

Disappointments:
Logan Mankins
Jonathan Fanene
Ron Brace
Patrick Chung
Jake Bequette
Kellen Winslow
Myron Pryor

I think surprise and disappointment have to be limited to players you actually had expectations attached to. For example, Solder and Hightower aren't really surprises, because they were elite college players and top prospects, and obtained using premium capital. They damn well better be good players. Conversely, Kyle Arrington is only a disappointment if you were expecting him to not be a liability. Same with Trevor Scott, Sterling Moore, Tavon Wilson etc. Dennis Green would have said, "they are who we thought they were!"

 

[Get it shawtaay]

Actually, what's really sad is that you can't maintain a logically consistent argument from one line to the next. You say that Edelman has demonstrated enough to warrant playing him in the slot next year (by virtue of his whopping 9 GP, 21 recs and 235 yards receiving), while at the same time admitting he's unlikely to replicate Welkers numbers "or even come close." That we should replace by far the best WR on the team - a guy who had been putting up HoF numbers - with a guy who looks demonstrates in flashes but who has never exceeded 359 yards receiving in a season. So, basically, you want to replace Welker with a guy who has demonstrated, at his peak, the ability to put up ... one quarter of WW's typical numbers. While we're at it, why don't we replace Mankins with Donald Thomas!?

I thought Ivan was being overwrought with his Welker posts, but it turns out there are people dumb enough out there making the very arguments he's inveighing against.

This isn't as unreasonable as you're making it sound...

 

[randomk1]

Surprises - Chandler Jones
Edelman - too fin bad
Francis
Safety McCourty
Dennard
Talib
Mayo - think he has really stepped up his game in every way this year.
RBs + patchwork OL

Disappointments - Chung + the entire secondary early on.
Dat 3rd WR spot
Ghost - too many misses. One missed FG the difference in getting #1 seed.

 

[Arrington Planet]

Brady has alot to do with Welker putting up those numbers.

Yeah, we all saw how his production declined when Cassel was quarterbacking the team back in '08.

Edelman played 11 games in 2009 (broken forearm), 15 in 2010, and 13 in 2011. Even this year he managed 9. Edelman has missed 16 games in 4 seasons. He needs to learn to go down after the catch.

Wes Welker has missed three games because of injuries, including playoffs. Edelman has missed at least three games in 3 of his 4 seasons with the Patriots.

The Pats have won 3 Super Bowls with Troy Brown playing the slot. Where is it written in stone that the Pats slot WR must have 100 receptions per season? The Pats have more weapons today than those Super Bowl teams. And, like Ive already stated, NE needs an injection of youth into the WR position.

I'd punch you in the face every time you call Wes Welker a "slot receiver". Where he plays is meaningless; HE'S THE GO-TO GUY IN THIS TEAM. He may not be your prototypical #1 receiver like Calvin Johnson or A.J. Green, but he's the man whom Brady will look and throw most, and you can't simply take him off, replace him by an average at best player and say "hey, somebody will magically come up to fill that hole".

Im pointing out that Edelman has shown enough this season that he can play the slot in 2013 which is accurate. Too bad that gets your underwear all in bunch.

I'm afraid you may have been watching a different team instead of the New England Patriots.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

They tried to make Edelman take over the Welker spot, but he broke his hand celebrating a touchdown...then he came back, played a few more games and broke his foot. If ever Edelman was going to take over the Welker role, it was when it was spoonfed to him this season.

Honestly, Edelman and Welker's skill sets aren't that close. Welker is Welker, and Edelman is a slower DeSean Jackson. Edelman doesn't have the game IQ to be Welker.

As far as surprises go, Justin Francis and Donald Thomas holding their own and then some. Mayo has also morphed into something more this season and lead what is becoming a very good LB group.

Disappointments: Bequette and Dowling

 

[RobertWeathers]

Disapointments in a general sense.....

-Ghost wasn't as sharp as he had been in years prior and a couple of his misses were very costly- especially the on vs AZ.

-The injuries to Mankins, AH, Gronk, Chung, Edelman and Seabass prevented them from having the kind of seasons that we were expecting.

-I was hoping that WW and the Pats could find common ground on a long term deal..Nothing to do with on the field work but I was disappointed that they couldn't figure something out which would all but guarantee that he'd end his careeer here.

Brandon Bolden- Drug suspension.

Pleasent Surpises...

Talib landing in Foxboro- Thank god.

McCourty- Hopefully staying at safety.

Dennard- Emerging a pretty damn good cover guy.

Ryan Wendell- Worked his tail off, played more snaps than anyone on the line and only comitted 2 penalties all year.

Brandon Bolden- He seems like a stud to me...

Nink- I was expecting a solid year....He had a GREAT year.

Deaderick- I was expecting a decent year. Hes come on very strong these last few weeks as a pretty formidable interior lineman.

 

[JackBauer]

This isn't as unreasonable as you're making it sound...

If you believe that replacement level OG play is a sufficient to substitute for top 3 guard play, when healthy, then sure.

 

[bostonia3333]

Talib and Dennard are the biggest surprises

I can't be disappointed in Chung because he's been horrible his whole career, I'm numbed by his ineptitude

 

[The Brandon Five]

Disappointments:

Ghost (responsible for one loss)
Coaching at the end of the first half in the Seattle game (responsible for another loss)
Pats being #2 in dropped passes
Edelman to IR
Two losses at home
Fanene

Surprises:
The Pats have a running game
OL play despite key injuries
Improvement in the defense as year progressed
Beatdown of Houston
Rookies (Jones, Hightower, Dennard) having immediate impact

 

[RobertWeathers]

Talib and Dennard are the biggest surprises

I can't be disappointed in Chung because he's been horrible his whole career, I'm numbed by his ineptitude

Chung had a fine 2010 and a decent tail-end to the 2011 and 2012 seasons.

His problem is that hes always hurt and quite frankly I question his football IQ. Seems to make the same damn misakes over and over again...

 

[Triumph]

Actually, what's really sad is that you can't maintain a logically consistent argument from one line to the next.

Im responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.

You say that Edelman has demonstrated enough to warrant playing him in the slot next year (by virtue of his whopping 9 GP, 21 recs and 235 yards receiving), while at the same time admitting he's unlikely to replicate Welkers numbers "or even come close."

Yes, thats right.

Edelman has clicked with Brady this year better than any season so far. They put in extra work together before the season and it showed. Edelmans catch rate is way up near 70% from 50% FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Julian Edelman Very promising improvement and what the Pats are looking for.

Damn shame Edelman landed on IR because this very well could have been his breakout season.

That we should replace by far the best WR on the team - a guy who had been putting up HoF numbers - with a guy who looks demonstrates in flashes but who has never exceeded 359 yards receiving in a season. So, basically, you want to replace Welker with a guy who has demonstrated, at his peak, the ability to put up ... one quarter of WW's typical numbers. While we're at it, why don't we replace Mankins with Donald Thomas!?

Its not up to me whether Welker stays or goes. Unlike you, I am looking at the handwriting on the wall and not whining about Welker leaving. He doesnt have a new contract.

Theres nothing that I can do if BB wants to let Welker leave and place Edelman in the slot. NOTHING. Just like when Seymour, Branch, Vinetieri, Givens, Vrabel, McGinest, Law and Woody were all were sent packing.

I thought Ivan was being overwrought with his Welker posts, but it turns out there are people dumb enough out there making the very arguments he's inveighing against.

You live is some sort of fantasy world where posts on messageboard = real life.

Get mental help please.

 

[Triumph]

I'd punch you in the face every time you call Wes Welker a "slot receiver". Where he plays is meaningless; HE'S THE GO-TO GUY IN THIS TEAM. He may not be your prototypical #1 receiver like Calvin Johnson or A.J. Green, but he's the man whom Brady will look and throw most, and you can't simply take him off, replace him by an average at best player and say "hey, somebody will magically come up to fill that hole".

I wish you would try.

BTW, Arrington blows and Welker is a slot WR.