2012 Draft FS

[DaBruinz]

The recent trend of BB doubling up on positions of need in the draft makes one wonder if 2 safeties in the round 2-4 range is very likely. We needed a TE so we got AH and Gronk. We had only one RB signed/healthy going into this year so we went Vereen/Ridley. I would love a double safety/CB draft combo at some point this year.

Sorry, but the Patriots needed 2 RBs since they only had 1 signed..

 

[BlackFrancis]

Bacarri Rambo is dipping his toes by asking the committee for a draft grade, so there's some hope amidst a sea of mediocrity. Not sure how others (Ochmed, in particular) feel about Rambo after seeing more of him but after watching him in two games, I like the kid.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Bacarri Rambo is dipping his toes by asking the committee for a draft grade, so there's some hope amidst a sea of mediocrity. Not sure how others (Ochmed, in particular) feel about Rambo after seeing more of him but after watching him in two games, I like the kid.

Coolest name EVER!

 

[VrabelJr]

I like Martin and Lester. Not too high on McDonald playing FS in the NFL. Of those three I like Martin the most. I think he was challenged a lot in his college career against some really good WRs.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I like Martin and Lester. Not too high on McDonald playing FS in the NFL. Of those three I like Martin the most. I think he was challenged a lot in his college career against some really good WRs.

I think McDonald just announced he is staying in school for his senior season. I think it is the best play he could have made.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think McDonald just announced he is staying in school for his senior season. I think it is the best play he could have made.

That is what went across the Twitter wire..

 

[ay-yo]

I watched a handful of Bama games this year but only 1 with the intent of grading their NFL prospects. From what I saw I was not impressed with Lester (sorry I forget which game but it was early in the year). Barron looked far superior to me.

Has anybody watched a Bama game and thought highly of Lester. I'm just curious if people are just seeing him as a highly rater Bama player at a position of need and pegging him as a solid pick for us or are actually watching games?

Anybody can have an off game and the dude did make all SEC 2nd team last year so I could easily be wrong. Still, I do think there are some players on Bama who are the product of talent around them and to me Barron is clearly a better player (was team captain this year, 1st team all SEC last year, All American this year).

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Thoughts on Janzen Jackson? Seems like a low risk possible high reward type of player.

 

[manxman2601]

I watched a handful of Bama games this year but only 1 with the intent of grading their NFL prospects. From what I saw I was not impressed with Lester (sorry I forget which game but it was early in the year). Barron looked far superior to me.

Has anybody watched a Bama game and thought highly of Lester. I'm just curious if people are just seeing him as a highly rater Bama player at a position of need and pegging him as a solid pick for us or are actually watching games?

Anybody can have an off game and the dude did make all SEC 2nd team last year so I could easily be wrong. Still, I do think there are some players on Bama who are the product of talent around them and to me Barron is clearly a better player (was team captain this year, 1st team all SEC last year, All American this year).

I agree that having watched a couple of their games, Lester was almost non-existent in them, got an INT on a tipped jump ball but that was it. And you are right, Barron does leap off the screen at you with his play. But I think this is being a little bit unfair on Lester, one could argue that it's a good thing when a FS isn't getting much TV time, the ball isn't being thrown in his direction, presumably owing to good coverage.

 

[MaineMan]

Okay, there's a guy who I haven't seen mentioned much around here as a safety prospect for the Pats, and am kinda wondering why not. He's 6'2"/215, projected to run a 4.55/40. His college record (playing mostly strong safety, AFAIK):

2011: 12 games - 49 solo/84TT, 2.0 TFL, 10 PBU, 1 QBH, 1 FF
2010: 13 games - 56 solo/91TT, 1.0 TFL, 7 PBU, 7 INT
2009: 12 games - 39 solo/69TT, 6.5 TFL, 5 PBU, 2 QBH, 1 FF
2008: 13 games - 39 solo/57TT, 8.5 TFL, 7 PBU, 3.5 sacks

Looking at his split stats, he appears to perform equally well (if not slightly better) against Ranked opponents as unranked (same with FBS winning record teams, BCS AQs, etc.).


NFP Scouting Report:

A thick, well built safety who looks the part, has a natural bubble and muscular upper body. Is very effective playing downhill inside the box and consistently gets early jumps on the ball, reads and reacts quickly and exhibits "plus" instincts as a run defender. Is routinely able to read the action quickly, close on the football and is a solid wrap-up tackler. Generates good power into contact working in pursuit, and once he gets his stride going, exhibits solid range off his frame and despite being a bit tight, he breaks down well on contact, using his strong upper body to wrap and runs his legs through contact. He understands angles, runs the alley well and routinely is able to wrap, even in the open field.

Those same instincts show up well in the pass game, as he's a bit of a ball hawk who has the ability to routinely get early jumps on the football. Exhibits impressive instincts, which routinely allows him to get early jumps on the football and put himself around the play. Looks a bit tight in his drop, causing him to get upright and he will get elongated/overextended with his footwork when looking to click and close, losing a bit out of his breaks. However, he's consistently moving toward the action before any defender and, once he collects himself, has a better closing burst than given credit for. Lacks great straight-line speed, but looks like a 4.55 guy who plays faster because of instincts. Exhibits good ball skills, taking proper angles toward the throw, and can adjust and make a play. Will play over the slot at times and does a nice job feeling routes develop around him, squatting on throws, keeping his feet under him, his base down and is much cleaner out of his breaks. Nevertheless, he lacks a great initial first step and looks tighter when asked to turn and run. He gets upright, struggles to get back up to speed quickly and lacks the type of second gear to make up for a false step.

Impression: Isn't a guy you want to trust to run with receivers down the field. However, because of his solid natural range and instincts, I can see him getting over the top and making plays in a center field type role as an NFL strong safety.

NFP has him going late-2nd.
Draft Countdown has him going early-3rd.
Drafttek has him going late-3rd.

I haven't seen him play at all (that I can remember), but then, I wasn't really looking for him, either. So, I assume there's something I'm missing about him that has pushed him off everyone's radar.

 

[manxman2601]

Okay, there's a guy who I haven't seen mentioned much around here as a safety prospect for the Pats, and am kinda wondering why not. He's 6'2"/215, projected to run a 4.55/40. His college record (playing mostly strong safety, AFAIK):

2011: 12 games - 49 solo/84TT, 2.0 TFL, 10 PBU, 1 QBH, 1 FF
2010: 13 games - 56 solo/91TT, 1.0 TFL, 7 PBU, 7 INT
2009: 12 games - 39 solo/69TT, 6.5 TFL, 5 PBU, 2 QBH, 1 FF
2008: 13 games - 39 solo/57TT, 8.5 TFL, 7 PBU, 3.5 sacks

Looking at his split stats, he appears to perform equally well (if not slightly better) against Ranked opponents as unranked (same with FBS winning record teams, BCS AQs, etc.).


NFP Scouting Report:



NFP has him going late-2nd.
Draft Countdown has him going early-3rd.
Drafttek has him going late-3rd.

I haven't seen him play at all (that I can remember), but then, I wasn't really looking for him, either. So, I assume there's something I'm missing about him that has pushed him off everyone's radar.

Good find. I haven't seen mention of him once, a Mark Barron lite by the sounds of it.

 

[MaineMan]

Good find. I haven't seen mention of him once, a Mark Barron lite by the sounds of it.

Erp. I just re-read my original post and suddenly realized that I'd unintentionally turned it into a guessing game. The first time I hit SUBMIT, my connection took a crap (again) and, in re-writing (in a hurry and disgruntled), I left out the player's name: Harrison Smith, Notre Dame, which I'm sure most readers had already figured out.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I do like Smith a bit (and, really, any safety with "Harrison" in his name is fine by me!), but he seems to replicate what we have with Barrett and Chung, but with less athleticism. Even Brown, for all his deficiencies, is a far, far better athlete. That said, he's very reliable back there. Could be a James Sanders type for a few years. If he's somehow available in the 5th, I'd take a chance on him.

As for Lester: last year, and even earlier this year, I made clear my dislike for several aspects of Lester's game. He was out of position, guilty of too much freelancing (of course, to the tune of 8 interceptions, so . . .), and made Meriweather look like the prince of wrap-up tackling. No thanks.

This year, however, the more I watched Bama (required viewing in the college ranks, in my opinion), the more I was impressed by Lester's renewed commitment to discipline. He is rarely out of position anymore, and it shows up in the points and big plays allowed by Alabama. They are the #1 defense in college football this year, I believe, and they give up an average of around a single touchdown a game, despite playing against the full strength of the SEC. Defense is, of course, a group effort, but Lester deserves praise for smothering the back end. His tackling in the run game seems much more aggressive, as well. Yes, his total tackle number is way down, but for a safety, is that really all that bad? He can cover, and he represents a threat to the offense as a center-fielder if they try to test him deep. He could be an excellent compliment to Chung, who I still think is on the verge of being a top safety in this league, if he can heal up and take over the rover role again, instead of being isolated in coverage as the star.

I still haven't given up hope that Dowling will get healthy and shift over to safety. I've been clamoring for the Patriots to draft him since late '08. I am a huge believer in his ability to play every single secondary position--press man on the outside, responsible zone hand-offs and the occasional blitz in the star, pattern matching inside and out with disciplined aggression to jump errant passes, filling strong against the run as an in-the-box safety who can shed a block and deliver a knockout blow, dropping deep in the back half as a free safety and out-jumping WRs for the ball, etc. I see him as a Woodson-type talent if he can just stay healthy.

 

[Defsoul]

Mike Mayock was gushing over Smith while covering Notre Dame for NBC. Wouldn't be suprised at all if he ends up being one of his binkies. Smith seems to react quickly to the ball, but doesn't seem to have outstanding athleticism. He makes plays because of his instincts, not his speed & quickness.

 

[MaineMan]

Mike Mayock was gushing over Smith while covering Notre Dame for NBC. Wouldn't be suprised at all if he ends up being one of his binkies. Smith seems to react quickly to the ball, but doesn't seem to have outstanding athleticism. He makes plays because of his instincts, not his speed & quickness.

A guy who relies on superior instincts/football smarts instead of athleticism might be a plus for BB. Within limits, of course.

 

[zipster9]

I like Barron a lot but Chung and Barron are very similar although I think Barron is more instinctual. To be honest given the Patriots like to play three safeties a lot so if they drafted both Barron and Lester I wouldn't be disappointed. I just feel they need a cover safety more. Rodney was very instinctual and become a decent cover safety but it took years.

I think DBs are the #1 priority. Regular season, Pats got torched so many times, in the middle, my head is spinning.. I mean, Edelman, Slater, are NOT DBs. They cannot cover and cannot tackle... Also, the fact that our DBs tend to get hurt in bunches, every year!

Alabama has one of the top-D in college. Barron may be gone by the time Patriots pick. But, if Lester (Junior) is in the draft, Patriots should use the #32 pick. I'm guessing Patriots will trade their #1, for a 2013 #1 and 2013 #2/#3.

 

[manxman2601]

So here's a wacky off the wall suggestion which you should feel free to shoot down. How about Zach Brown, UNC's linebacker, for the safety role. The thought just came to me and I need it tested. The case for:

1. Using PFW's unofficial 40 times, Zach Brown is faster than every safety listed and is as fast or faster than every cornerback in the draft.

2. Here's how PFW describe him:

An exceptionally gifted, undersized, finesse "Will" linebacker, Brown looks every bit the part and has rare speed with natural bend and safety-like ease of movement. Ranges sideline to sideline and is outstanding in coverage — drops effortlessly and is flexible, agile and sudden to shadow. Is a slam-dunk lottery selection on measurables and workout ability but does not exhibit an aggressive temperament and intensity leaves something to be desired. Is not physical at the point and too often relies on the cavalry to tackle. Has yet to adopt a professional approach to the game, has a fragile psyche and trust issues and the interview process might go a long way in determining his ultimate draft value.

So he might not be ideal around the line of scrimmage, but put him into the defensive backfield and he can do what he does best, cover receivers.

3. His stock is falling. Most boards had him top ten to top fifteen a few weeks ago. He's now edging towards the bottom of the first round where there's a lot of 3-4 teams that he might not fit.

4. Belichick is always looking for value with his draft picks but also looks for very good measurables relative to position in the first round. Brown is someone who could better any safety in the draft in terms of flexibility and speed at the combine.

5. There's a poor safety class in the draft so a conversion may be the route to go.

6. At 6'2" and 230 lb's, he certainly has ideal size for the position.

7. If the conversion project doesn't work out, at worst we've added depth to a linebacking corps who struggle in coverage.

8. Doesn't it strike you as a very Belichickian thing to do. Take someone whose stock is falling because he might not have ideal size for a position and convert him to a position for which physically he's ideally suited.


OK, feel free to shoot me down now.

 

[VrabelJr]

Zach Brown fits best on a Tampa 2 type defense.

 

[rdf63]

Pats will need to strongly consider drafting two safeties in the 2012 draft. Chung is a solid player but being injury prone and noone else with him, the Pats need to consider the following moves. McCourty is a cornerback not a safety and Dowling has a ton of ability. It is time to fix the problems permanently and below are some suggestions. Ronnie Lester from Alabama was a consideration but he is returning for his senior year:

1a. Mark Barron, SS, Alabama
6'2" 215 lbs 4.5 40-yd dash
38 career starts at safety
12 career interceptions, 235 tackles and 34 passes defended
The best strong safety available in the draft. Classic ball hawk. Good acceleration and straight-line speed. Very good ball skills for the position.

3. Markelle Martin, FS, Oklahoma State
6-1 198 lbs 4.4 40-yard dash
2011 Stats: 65 tackles, 11 pass breakups, 2 forced fumbles. May be a mid second round to late third round pick but with Lester returning to Alabama he may go earlier than expected. Instinctive ball skills and above-average coverage ability and strong tackler

OR

4. George Iloka, FS, Boise State
6’3″ 214 lbs 4.42-4.59 40-yard dash
compiled 174 tackles, seven interceptions, a ball-hawk and a solid tackler.

 

[mrscruff]

So here's a wacky off the wall suggestion which you should feel free to shoot down. How about Zach Brown, UNC's linebacker, for the safety role.

I think you have basically described the Jeff Tarpinian Experiment. Others have mentioned how good his numbers were and he was used in coverage a great deal at Iowa coupled with the fact that he started at safety.

Or he may just get cut at during the first week of Training Camp next year .....