2012 ~ Ascension of Aaron The Navigator!!

[resdubwhite]

Have to admit. Have spent a deal of the afternoon watching clips of bobby orr on youtube.

AWESOME.

 

[zeroakuma]

We've had a misunderstanding, Gentlemen!!

I PROMISE you...

I in NO way, shape or FORM am suggesting that Aaron will have an IMPACT comparable to Bobby Orr's.

Never said it.

Never WILL.

It is only their navigational style that I'm comparing...and only "sometimes", at that!!

I tell you what. It was my first time driving around Boston, and I didn't have the time to get down to Foxboro, to visit my Mecca, Gillette Stadium.

I need Aaron the Navigator to help me drive around Boston. There are too many tolls in New York and Massachusetts!

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Beyond the statistical dominance of Gretzky (which I'll admit is not necessarily the most important criteria), watching Gretzky play was every bit as awe-inspiring as Orr. He had a vision for the game that is unparallelled in the history of the game.

It was like everything was in slow motion, he'd put the puck seemingly into the middle of nowhere, suddenly there's a player there waiting to rush in unopposed. He single-handedly made players like Jari Kurri, Luc Robitaille, etc appear like all-stars, even though they could barely top 20 goals without him.

It's a great argument that could go either way, but to call the notion of Gretzky as the greatest ever "hilarious" is just seeing things through black and gold tinted glasses.

Gretz was a once in a lifetime talent that's for sure.

He was a child prodigy. I remember watching Gretz play in a tournament that I played in many years ago. He was 10 years old and playing against 14 year olds. Triple A level hockey (best in Canada, maybe the world). Even though many of these 14 year olds were a foot taller and 50# heavier than Gretz (and many ultimately drafted into the NHL), they couldn't touch him. Gretz scored 10 goals in the game.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

I'd say Welker and Edleman (and probably some Rbs) are more dynamic a runner in open space than Hernandez.

But, Hernandez is significantly harder to take down and I'd say pound for pound he has more open field agility than perhaps anyone (offense) in the NFL. Just has to make sure he understands situations and when to tug for those extra yards and when to go down (assuming he maintains the sae level of ball security, which could be improved).

 

[Sicilian]

Gretz was a once in a lifetime talent that's for sure.

He was a child prodigy. I remember watching Gretz play in a tournament that I played in many years ago. He was 10 years old and playing against 14 year olds. Triple A level hockey (best in Canada, maybe the world). Even though many of these 14 year olds were a foot taller and 50# heavier than Gretz (and many ultimately drafted into the NHL), they couldn't touch him. Gretz scored 10 goals in the game.

Agreed, an absolute magician with the puck. Still, before I get killed, I consider Orr in the same exact category. I'm content to list Orr as the greatest defenseman of all time, and Gretzky the greatest forward, and concede that comparing them is difficult due to the positions (and eras in which they played). They're both transcendent players.

 

[Off The Grid]

Beyond the statistical dominance of Gretzky (which I'll admit is not necessarily the most important criteria), watching Gretzky play was every bit as awe-inspiring as Orr. He had a vision for the game that is unparallelled in the history of the game.

It was like everything was in slow motion, he'd put the puck seemingly into the middle of nowhere, suddenly there's a player there waiting to rush in unopposed. He single-handedly made players like Jari Kurri, Luc Robitaille, etc appear like all-stars, even though they could barely top 20 goals without him.

It's a great argument that could go either way, but to call the notion of Gretzky as the greatest ever "hilarious" is just seeing things through black and gold tinted glasses.

Really??

How was Gretzky's Defense?

In all fairness, though: I was thinking of the dismissive "Of course it's Gretzky!!" attitude that so many of the Ignorant are saddled with...As I clearly said, above: Gretzky as the Greatest is at least supportable.

 

[Sicilian]

In all fairness, though: I was thinking of the dismissive "Of course it's Gretzky!!" attitude that so many of the Ignorant are saddled with...As I clearly said, above: Gretzky as the Greatest is at least supportable.

Which is precisely what I was responding to in your post my good sir The notion that Gretzky's status is "hilarious" is just as dismissive in my eyes, hence my desire to make a strong case.

How was Gretzky's Defense?

If you're talking about traditional views of defense, you're right. In the defensive zone he wasn't going to shut anyone down. But hockey isn't like football. It's not a series of offensive plays followed by a series of defensive plays. It's free flowing, and the other team can't score if Gretzky and his offense always has the puck. I'm willing to bet the number of goals scored against his teams while he was on the ice is relatively low.

All this said, if I was going to start a team with one player in his prime, I wouldn't start with either of them. I'd pick Mark Messier. That's a guy who could do everything. Score, pass, fight, win faceoffs, kill penalties, be mean and nasty, and inspire his team both on and off the ice. Only player to captain two different teams to Stanley Cup championships, and one of the best leaders in the history of sports.

 

[Off The Grid]

Agreed, an absolute magician with the puck. Still, before I get killed, I consider Orr in the same exact category.

I'm content to list Orr as the greatest defenseman of all time, and Gretzky the greatest forward, and concede that comparing them is difficult due to the positions (and eras in which they played).

They're both transcendent players.

Works for me!!

It's well documented that I've never been a fan of trying to boil it down to a #1, anyway, and for those very same reasons...It is, in fact, the foolish insistence, by so many Ignoramuses, that Jordan and Gretzky are the clear #1's that I was, in fact, objecting to, if you reference my Post.

 

[Sicilian]

Works for me!!

It's well documented that I've never been a fan of trying to boil it down to a #1, anyway, and for those very same reasons...It is, in fact, the foolish insistence, by so many Ignoramuses, that Jordan and Gretzky are the clear #1's that I was, in fact, objecting to, if you reference my Post.

Agreed! Well said.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

All this said, if I was going to start a team with one player in his prime, I wouldn't start with either of them. I'd pick Mark Messier. That's a guy who could do everything. Score, pass, fight, win faceoffs, kill penalties, be mean and nasty, and inspire his team both on and off the ice. Only player to captain two different teams to Stanley Cup championships, and one of the best leaders in the history of sports.

One "do it all" player player to start a team with? Two words ...... Gordie Howe.

 

[Sicilian]

One "do it all" player player to start a team with? Two words ...... Gordie Howe.

They're both really similar players, almost eerily so if you look at their careers and numbers. I probably favor Messier because he's more from my generation, but you can't go wrong with either one.

I mean Gordie has a special type of Hat Trick named after him. Hard to argue against that!

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Gretz was a once in a lifetime talent that's for sure.

He was a child prodigy. I remember watching Gretz play in a tournament that I played in many years ago. He was 10 years old and playing against 14 year olds. Triple A level hockey (best in Canada, maybe the world). Even though many of these 14 year olds were a foot taller and 50# heavier than Gretz (and many ultimately drafted into the NHL), they couldn't touch him. Gretz scored 10 goals in the game.

Bobby Orr was a child prodigy too. The Bruins signed him to a contract with their Jr A team when he was still in elementary school. I watched both play and I'd still take Orr.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Bobby Orr was a child prodigy too. The Bruins signed him to a contract with their Jr A team when he was still in elementary school. I watched both play and I'd still take Orr.

Can't go wrong with either. BTW, Orr dated my Aunt and played Jr in my hometown ..... Oshawa.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

They're both really similar players, almost eerily so if you look at their careers and numbers. I probably favor Messier because he's more from my generation, but you can't go wrong with either one.

I mean Gordie has a special type of Hat Trick named after him. Hard to argue against that!

But you could play Gordie until he was 50.

 

[Zeus]

One "do it all" player player to start a team with? Two words ...... Gordie Howe.

My dad is a lifelong hockey fan (he's about to turn 85). If you asked him, he would say the two greatest players he ever saw were Gordie Howe and Bobby Orr.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

The thing that puts me over the top with Orr is just the completeness of the guy. If they didn't butcher his knees, who knows how long or how much better even he could have been.

He could score, defend, pass, fight, etc. He had a cannon for a stick, was the fastest guy on the ice, and could carve like a figure skater at full speed. He did everything... probably could have been a HOF goalie too (lol).

He just moved and played on the ice like no one else playing at that time. Howe's prime was a bit before my time. He was around 40 when I saw him play and Gretzky was magical with the puck.

Orr , to me, was just so much better at every position than anyone else on the ice playing at his time. Yes, he was a defenseman but he could have played any position out there and been the best.

 

[Zeus]

The thing that puts me over the top with Orr is just the completeness of the guy. If they didn't butcher his knees, who knows how long or how much better even he could have been.

He could score, defend, pass, fight, etc. He had a cannon for a stick, was the fastest guy on the ice, and could carve like a figure skater at full speed. He did everything... probably could have been a HOF goalie too (lol).

He just moved and played on the ice like no one else playing at that time. Howe's prime was a bit before my time. He was around 40 when I saw him play and Gretzky was magical with the puck.

Orr , to me, was just so much better at every position than anyone else on the ice playing at his time. Yes, he was a defenseman but he could have played any position out there and been the best.

Orr was undeniably the most explosive player I ever saw. That he was so much better than anyone else on the ice was immediatley obvious to anyone watching.

Howe had superb skills and defined toughness in the most convincing way possible. He never fought because no one would fight him.