2011 NFL Scouting Combine News & Notes...

[OldNEPatsFan]

NO CBA, no player trades, time to leave fantasy land.

 

[mcsully]

If Arizona wasn't convinced they wanted a guy there and pay them $10M a season, they could do worse than that trade though. I think it's decent value, and better than what Cleveland got from the Jets.

You're right, anything can happen.. That trade put the Browns back a few years, even though they got Mack..
But here's the thing, not just using JJ value chart (which is as reference)... If we compare the Browns & Jets trade, Browns still got a #1 pick back (21st). No way mankins is worth the 21st pick in a draft, plus the money he's going to command. Even if he was, does anyone think Hoyer and TBC would move the pats up another 15 picks, IN THE 1st ROUND?

 

[mcsully]

Based on what I've seen of Arizona's QBs, it seems a very good bet that Hoyer would be their starter when he walked through the door.

Not that often that a team gets one guaranteed ProBowl starter at a position of need, much less two, for one pick, even a high one. Hoyer has as much or more chance at becoming their franchise QB as any of the QB prospects they have to select from in this draft. That alone could be worth a first rounder to them.

Throw in experienced OLB/pass rush help and maybe a later pick like the #60 (as I later amended), and I don't see it being an awful deal for the Cards at all. They have a lot of key holes to fill. They cover two of them and still have the #38, 60, 69 and 102.

I'm knocked over how someone could think this deal is even possible. At least the Browns got Mack and move back and they didn't have to throw out big money for him (like the mankins to arizona.. see my post above)

Basically if you were the Cardinals, would you entertain the offer for Mankins + his new salary (btw the Bidwells are cheap and we'd be shipping him out because of his desired salary), 60th pick, Hoyer and TBC?

We'd have to sweeten that deal, BIG TIME.. If you said 17th, 60th, Mankins and a next year pick (5th that goes to a 4th), I said you have something.. But from what I've read, its a solid draft with 1st round talent still there in the 2nd round..

 

[Off The Grid]

NO CBA, no player trades, time to leave fantasy land.

They've mentioned that twice, themselves.

But thanks for that contribution.

 

[MaineMan]

I'm knocked over how someone could think this deal is even possible. At least the Browns got Mack and move back and they didn't have to throw out big money for him (like the mankins to arizona.. see my post above)

Basically if you were the Cardinals, would you entertain the offer for Mankins + his new salary (btw the Bidwells are cheap and we'd be shipping him out because of his desired salary), 60th pick, Hoyer and TBC?

We'd have to sweeten that deal, BIG TIME.. If you said 17th, 60th, Mankins and a next year pick (5th that goes to a 4th), I said you have something.. But from what I've read, its a solid draft with 1st round talent still there in the 2nd round..

They'd be getting their likely starting QB for $480k for at least 2011. Seems like that might be enough to offset the "pain" of paying Mankins $8M or the likely $10M+ they'd be paying for a "prospect" they picked at #5.

Anyway, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

You're right, anything can happen.. That trade put the Browns back a few years, even though they got Mack..
But here's the thing, not just using JJ value chart (which is as reference)... If we compare the Browns & Jets trade, Browns still got a #1 pick back (21st). No way mankins is worth the 21st pick in a draft, plus the money he's going to command. Even if he was, does anyone think Hoyer and TBC would move the pats up another 15 picks, IN THE 1st ROUND?

Yeah, Mangini really screwed the Browns.

I would agree that a high pick would have to be included somewhere. What about #33 with Mankins and Hoyer? If you value Mankins at a high 2nd, Hoyer at a high 3rd (since he'd be the starting QB), that'd get you in the ballpark of the 1700 points without necessarily matching it.

NO CBA, no player trades, time to leave fantasy land.

Sure, it's a meaningless exercise and it's fantasy land. I think we've mentioned that several times now. But even if there were a CBA and player trades were allowed, it would still be fantasy land unless you work in the Patriots war room, which I don't. It's just as practical as wearing a lucky shirt or drinking the same beer only on game days or watching the draft. Nothing we say or do really changes the way the FO runs things or what the team does on the field.

Probably 90% of football is fantasy land. There are really only about 30 days a year where your team does something tangible (games, draft, big FA signings or trades). The other 335 days or so are spent dreaming, guessing, hoping, wishing, praying, swearing, drinking, et cetera. And one could even argue 100% of football is fantasy land since it isn't a necessity (though I would argue those people are INSANE).

But yes, you are correct.

 

[bakes781]

sterling sharpe says julio jones is not a 1st rounder just as the kid unofficially runs a 4.39

 

[Richard Camembert]

They'd be getting their likely starting QB for $480k for at least 2011. Seems like that might be enough to offset the "pain" of paying Mankins $8M or the likely $10M+ they'd be paying for a "prospect" they picked at #5.

Anyway, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

<<<Disclaimer: the below proposal emanates from fantasy land, reader beware!>>>

Actually, for ARI this trade makes more sense as Hoyer plus Tully plus a draft pick, maybe #76 or #60, for ARI's #5, and leave Mankins' contract out of it. If I thought Hoyer could be, say, Carson Palmer, I might do that. I'd get a starting QB for short $, a reasonably priced, proven starting OLB, and a lower priced draft pick. And I wouldn't have to take in $8-10M of unhappy manbeast or uncertain pro prospect.

 

[Richard Camembert]

Nate Solder had a good combine so far:

NFL.com news: Several OL, TEs improve draft stock with strong combine

 

[Seneschal2]

A.J. Green, Julio Jones crank up the speed in Indy | ProFootballTalk

Georgia receiver A.J. Green ran, unofficially, a 4.48 and then a 4.51. Alabama’s Julio Jones cranked out a 4.43, and then an eye-popping 4.39.
The fastest time came from Abilene Christian’s Edmund Gates, who covered 120 feet in 4.35 seconds.

---

Unofficial times -- but impressive by Jones.

 

[mcsully]

They'd be getting their likely starting QB for $480k for at least 2011. Seems like that might be enough to offset the "pain" of paying Mankins $8M or the likely $10M+ they'd be paying for a "prospect" they picked at #5.

Anyway, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

We'll agree to disagree right now but I don't think the trade is ever going to happen.. but if it does, I'll come to where ever u live and give you a high five

 

[mcsully]

Yeah, Mangini really screwed the Browns.

I would agree that a high pick would have to be included somewhere. What about #33 with Mankins and Hoyer? If you value Mankins at a high 2nd, Hoyer at a high 3rd (since he'd be the starting QB), that'd get you in the ballpark of the 1700 points without necessarily matching it.



.

hmm.. that would definitely get them to the table but I think they would still need a pick for next year.. or another 3rd this year.. IF Mankins played LT, OLB, WR, CB, DT/DE, I would say yes we could make that move.. Guards to me just don't get you a lot in return. Its gravy on top.. We won Super Bowls without top rated guards..

Bottom line, I WOULD LOVE TO GET THE # 6 pick.. But I don't see Arizona making the move. Now if you want to talk about a bad organizations, lets target
Dallas and Washington.. They always want to make a splash and their OL's are horrible..

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Bottom line, I WOULD LOVE TO GET THE # 6 pick.. But I don't see Arizona making the move. Now if you want to talk about a bad organizations, lets target
Dallas and Washington.. They always want to make a splash and their OL's are horrible..

I could see Arizona moving down if no one ahead of them takes a QB.

 

[MaineMan]

We'll agree to disagree right now but I don't think the trade is ever going to happen.. but if it does, I'll come to where ever u live and give you a high five

Really? I'd rate it about 1:1,000,000 myself (it was sorta off the wall speculation to begin with, so I really have no idea why I got such a bug up my butt defending it).

Anyway, however it works out, you're welcome to an icy cold beverage anytime. Actually, one of the advantages to living in Maine is that the beer hardly ever has occasion to get warm.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Really? I'd rate it about 1:1,000,000 myself (it was sorta off the wall speculation to begin with, so I really have no idea why I got such a bug up my butt defending it).

Anyway, however it works out, you're welcome to an icy cold beverage anytime. Actually, one of the advantages to living in Maine is that the beer hardly ever has occasion to get warm.

Mayock said on NFL network, he would not trade two first rounders to move up high in the first round. And I think that is where BB is thinking as well.

However I do see BB making a small trade down in the first round and targeting Wilkerson in the 20's. Once Dareus is off the board, Wilkerson becomes the next best 3-4 DE on my board.

 

[upstater1]

Julio Jones' vertical is the highest I've seen since watching the combine. In previous years, the highest jumps have been a full 9 inches lower or less. Darius Butler had the highest jump at 10'6" one year.

 

[MaineMan]

Mayock said on NFL network, he would not trade two first rounders to move up high in the first round. And I think that is where BB is thinking as well.

However I do see BB making a small trade down in the first round and targeting Wilkerson in the 20's. Once Dareus is off the board, Wilkerson becomes the next best 3-4 DE on my board.

Umm, the original "discussion" between myself and mcsully was regarding a completely different scenario. And by "different" I mean, well, "Lady Gaga arriving at the Grammy's" different.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Julio Jones' vertical is the highest I've seen since watching the combine. In previous years, the highest jumps have been a full 9 inches lower or less. Darius Butler had the highest jump at 10'6" one year.

If he somehow makes it to 17 he's worth a long look.

 

[patchick]

Anyone else surprised to see Houston weigh in at 270? I hope that's good weight, and not an indication of being out of shape. If he's really up to 6'3 270, then I think we ought to draft him. He has more experience playing 34 OLB than anyone other than Von Miller, but should be available in the late 1st. He's a little shorter than the prototype, but he's extremely sudden and explosive, and could be just what we need on the other side of Cunningham. Intriguing player, for sure.

I was VERY surprised by Houston's measurements. I always thought he was smaller than advertised, but clearly not. Long arms and huge hands, too.

Now I'll have to find a new excuse for my irrational dislike of him.

 

[Sciz]

I was VERY surprised by Houston's measurements. I always thought he was smaller than advertised, but clearly not. Long arms and huge hands, too.

Now I'll have to find a new excuse for my irrational dislike of him.

I'm in a similar situation. My thoughts going into the combine were that he was too small if he wasn't a legit 6'3" and 270, and if he is that height/weight, that he's nearly maxed out against the run, and that isn't good enough.