2011 Draft Fail Thread!

[dryheat44]

Well, the Pats could run the ball, but there was a cost involved.

Just to be clear, I think BGE is a fine, straight-ahead, one-cut runner with very good vision for the developing hole and the decisiveness to hit it with good timing. He runs squared up, with very good pad-level and better than average low-gear power, and he plays with exceptional ball-security. In short, a near perfect between the tackles guy.

However, he doesn't have the speed to get around the end more than once in awhile. He doesn't really have a second cut to escape the LB level or the extra gear to do much when he does escape. Most important, he doesn't get very deep into the LB level without a dedicated blocker - a TE (Crumpler, mostly) or a FB (Morris).

And that's the cost. In order for BGE to run effectively with any consistency, the Pats have to take one of their more effective pass-catchers off the field. Because the Jets, with their strong D-line, knew that the Pats couldn't run effectively with any consistency out of, say, a 4-WR/1-RB set, they could afford to keep 7-8 guys in coverage (5-6 of them between the numbers in the short/intermediate areas where virtually all of our pass-catchers do their best work). When the Pats took a pass-catcher off the field for the extra blocker, the Jets simply cheated up with a safety and/or LB and could afford to do so since there was at least one less target to cover.

In short, without a between the tackles RB who is a legit threat to break off several good runs on his own even without extra blocking help, and without any pass-catchers who can work the sidelines and deep zones effectively with any consistency, the Pats offense can be thoroughly stymied by a well-executed defense that has decent coverage LBs.

I'm usually banging the drum that drafting a running back is a waste of a 1st round pick...but this is some excellent analysis of the Jets game.

I'm of the mindset that a successful running game is about 70% offensive line, 25% threat of getting killed in passing game, and 5% running back inherent talent. That being said, in order to get a back who is likely to succeed in the NFL as a traditional lead back, we're looking at guys who are 5'10 - 6'0, 220-230 lbs, who have a measure of speed and elusiveness, can catch and block, and don't put the ball on the ground. That's a fairly limited resource pool among major conference athletes.

I think for what the Patriots ask their RBs to do, Green Ellis is a great back. He runs to where the hole is supposed to be, gets the yardage that is there, and doesn't fumble. Maroney had all the talent you look for in a running back, except he didn't run to where the hole was supposed to be and wanted to cut everything back.

Notice the use of the word "traditional" two paragraphs back. Given the dynamics of the offense, I'm not sure it wouldn't be better to go the Andy Reid route -- an undersized (not tiny) guy like Westbrook or McCoy would kick ass in this offense.

 

[RayClay]

Well, the Pats could run the ball, but there was a cost involved.

Just to be clear, I think BGE is a fine, straight-ahead, one-cut runner with very good vision for the developing hole and the decisiveness to hit it with good timing. He runs squared up, with very good pad-level and better than average low-gear power, and he plays with exceptional ball-security. In short, a near perfect between the tackles guy.

However, he doesn't have the speed to get around the end more than once in awhile. He doesn't really have a second cut to escape the LB level or the extra gear to do much when he does escape. Most important, he doesn't get very deep into the LB level without a dedicated blocker - a TE (Crumpler, mostly) or a FB (Morris).

And that's the cost. In order for BGE to run effectively with any consistency, the Pats have to take one of their more effective pass-catchers off the field. Because the Jets, with their strong D-line, knew that the Pats couldn't run effectively with any consistency out of, say, a 4-WR/1-RB set, they could afford to keep 7-8 guys in coverage (5-6 of them between the numbers in the short/intermediate areas where virtually all of our pass-catchers do their best work). When the Pats took a pass-catcher off the field for the extra blocker, the Jets simply cheated up with a safety and/or LB and could afford to do so since there was at least one less target to cover.

In short, without a between the tackles RB who is a legit threat to break off several good runs on his own even without extra blocking help, and without any pass-catchers who can work the sidelines and deep zones effectively with any consistency, the Pats offense can be thoroughly stymied by a well-executed defense that has decent coverage LBs.

Not that it would make any difference in some arguments, but that's what i would say if i was smart enough.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Given the dynamics of the offense, I'm not sure it wouldn't be better to go the Andy Reid route -- an undersized (not tiny) guy like Westbrook or McCoy would kick ass in this offense.

That said, this is a nice draft class for those kinds of kids.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

OK, this is going back to 2010, but talk about proof that BB > any # of Patriots fans working together:

TRADES:

- NE sends BenJarvus Green-Ellis to Buffalo for a 6th round pick
- NE sends its 1st, 4th and 6th round draft picks, along with Shawn Springs, to SD for Shawne Merriman

:bricks: :bricks: :bricks:

 

[MaineMan]

I'm usually banging the drum that drafting a running back is a waste of a 1st round pick...but this is some excellent analysis of the Jets game.

I'm of the mindset that a successful running game is about 70% offensive line, 25% threat of getting killed in passing game, and 5% running back inherent talent. That being said, in order to get a back who is likely to succeed in the NFL as a traditional lead back, we're looking at guys who are 5'10 - 6'0, 220-230 lbs, who have a measure of speed and elusiveness, can catch and block, and don't put the ball on the ground. That's a fairly limited resource pool among major conference athletes.

I think for what the Patriots ask their RBs to do, Green Ellis is a great back. He runs to where the hole is supposed to be, gets the yardage that is there, and doesn't fumble. Maroney had all the talent you look for in a running back, except he didn't run to where the hole was supposed to be and wanted to cut everything back.

Notice the use of the word "traditional" two paragraphs back. Given the dynamics of the offense, I'm not sure it wouldn't be better to go the Andy Reid route -- an undersized (not tiny) guy like Westbrook or McCoy would kick ass in this offense.

Unless you're getting that very rare RB who is a legitimate threat to break one for 15-25 on any given touch, even out of 4 WR sets, yes. That means that a defense has to honor the run even when everything else you're doing says "pass." It also means that you don't always need to short your passing-game resources in order to be able to run. I'm just not confident that either Ingram or LeShoure are that guy.

If the guy pretty much always needs an extra blocker, FB/TE, to get to the 2nd level or around the corner, what's the difference between him and BGE?

That said, I might see spending a mid-round, even a late-second, on a guy who may need some help getting started, but who does have a consistent second cut (that he uses wisely) along with a bit more burst and long speed than BGE to be able to break out of the second level on his own (so that we're at least getting more bang for our extra-blocker buck.) But I wouldn't spend a first.

Anyway, I'd love to have a McCoy in this offense, along with another straight-up, North-South grinder - basically a BGE clone - for insurance.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Not a mock FAIL, but just general FAIL regarding the Pats and their draft picks:

Should Cowboys Trade Draft Picks With The Patriots? - Blogging The Boys

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Not a mock FAIL, but just general FAIL regarding the Pats and their draft picks:

Should Cowboys Trade Draft Picks With The Patriots? - Blogging The Boys

Reads a lot like this board.

 

[MaineMan]

Not a mock FAIL, but just general FAIL regarding the Pats and their draft picks:

Should Cowboys Trade Draft Picks With The Patriots? - Blogging The Boys

(1) Nearly universal concern about their OL (duh!).

(2) Never deal with BB; you'll always come out on the short end.

(3) The Pats need a stud WR like Green or Jones more than anything and might trade up to get one of them.

Fascinating.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I'm assuming this mock was a joke, but even so, it's a candidate for worst mock of all time. :bricks:

 

[dryheat44]

I'm assuming this mock was a joke, but even so, it's a candidate for worst mock of all time. :bricks:

You don't think we'll go CB-CB in the first round? With Dareus available at both picks? Maybe BB figures he'll fall to #33.

 

[jmt57]

It's been a while, but this one is worthy of a Draft Fail

2011 NFL Mock Draft -- Two Rounds -- NFL Draft Bible


Forget the Pats for a moment; KC takes Jake Locker at# 21?????

Back to the Pats ... not one, but two corners in the first two rounds?????



The only explanation I can come up with is that the site is indeed run by Jets fans.

 

[jsull87]

It's been a while, but this one is worthy of a Draft Fail

2011 NFL Mock Draft -- Two Rounds -- NFL Draft Bible


Forget the Pats for a moment; KC takes Jake Locker at# 21?????

Back to the Pats ... not one, but two corners in the first two rounds?????



The only explanation I can come up with is that the site is indeed run by Jets fans.

wouldn't mind that draft for the pats except for the 2nd corner. watts (swap brandon for j smith (i like him for some reason) brooks reed isn't bad off the edget you'd just have to get rid of that 2nd CB.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

NFL Forum :: - GM Mock Draft Results

Here's a draft that looks like a WIN. . . . until you see just what the GM traded away to make it happen. [To put this in perspective: he made, by his own count, TWENTY-EIGHT trades. ]

 

[dryheat44]

Why, they say, Why Uncle Heatster do you regard Wes Bunting with something in between bemusement and disdain?

Looking over the back end of round one, the Atlanta Falcons seems like a very possible destination for Rudolph with Tony Gonzalez getting up there in age. Also, don’t overlook the Patriots. They always are searching for a good value, love to play in Ace Personnel (2WR, 2TE, 1 RB) and their 3rd TE Alge Crumpler is getting up there in age. Plus, it allows them to play with TE Aaron Hernandez split out more from the slot and is just another way to create more mismatches on that offense


Notre Dame?s Rudolph makes late charge for first round | National Football Post


I'll give you that he seems to have actually watched some film this year, which is an improvement, but now he seems to enjoy being the town contrarian for its own sake.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Why, they say, Why Uncle Heatster do you regard Wes Bunting with something in between bemusement and disdain?

Looking over the back end of round one, the Atlanta Falcons seems like a very possible destination for Rudolph with Tony Gonzalez getting up there in age. Also, don’t overlook the Patriots. They always are searching for a good value, love to play in Ace Personnel (2WR, 2TE, 1 RB) and their 3rd TE Alge Crumpler is getting up there in age. Plus, it allows them to play with TE Aaron Hernandez split out more from the slot and is just another way to create more mismatches on that offense


Notre Dame?s Rudolph makes late charge for first round | National Football Post


I'll give you that he seems to have actually watched some film this year, which is an improvement, but now he seems to enjoy being the town contrarian for its own sake.

Rudolph is actually a pretty good player. I just don't see the need with Gronk our all-around tight end in place and Hernandez as our mismatch TE. A 3rd developmental blocking TE could be drafted though. Crumpler won't be here much longer.

 

[dryheat44]

Rudolph is actually a pretty good player. I just don't see the need with Gronk our all-around tight end in place and Hernandez as our mismatch TE. A 3rd developmental blocking TE could be drafted though. Crumpler won't be here much longer.

I'm not suggesting Rudolph isn't good, or even that he's not a first round talent, but I think Belichick would draft a QB at #28 before he takes a TE there.

 

[MaineMan]

Rudolph is actually a pretty good player. I just don't see the need with Gronk our all-around tight end in place and Hernandez as our mismatch TE. A 3rd developmental blocking TE could be drafted though. Crumpler won't be here much longer.

Personally, I'm hoping we can come up with an RB that significantly reduces our need for a pure blocking TE. At which point, I'd rather replace Crumpler with a true FB who can run well on his own and catch well, in addition to excelling at run-blocking and passpro. Such a guy in a 1-TE/2-back set significantly increases our tactical options (and increases what the opposing defense has to consider).

 

[Keyser Söze]

Bowers/Pouncey/Reed

Get it done.

 

[Wilfork#75]

I think our friend Wes Bunting at the National Football Post has a contendor for the worst mock of the year with his "what I would do if I was the GM of all 32 teams mock draft". After reading this I think he has lost what little credibility he had in my eyes.

Scout?s Mock part II | National Football Post

Some of my favorites:

- Cam Jordan at 6 to Cle over Marcel Dareus and Nick Fairley
- Dareus falling all the way to 7
- Detroit trading up to 10, to grab ALDON SMITH???
- Minnesota reaching for Carimi at 12
- Washington taking Mark Ingram at 13. This is by far the worst pick and makes no sense
- The Jags taking Jon Baldwin at 16, rather than waiting until the 3rd round
- The Pats reaching for Derek Sherrod at 17
- Other big reaches: Ayers at 18, Watkins 19, Sheard 21, Ijalana 22 and Brandon Harris 23
- Prince Amukamara falling to 24
- Christian Ponder the top QB taken
- Gabbert falling to 28
- The Raiders having so many picks they can afford to move up into the first to take a guy with major character concerns


Its one thing to mock a bad pick to a team because you think that will happen (Newton to Carolina), its another story when the picks are what you would do as a GM. In the wise words of Michael Irvin, C'mon Man.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think our friend Wes Bunting at the National Football Post has a contendor for the worst mock of the year with his "what I would do if I was the GM of all 32 teams mock draft". After reading this I think he has lost what little credibility he had in my eyes.

Scout?s Mock part II | National Football Post

Some of my favorites:

- Cam Jordan at 6 to Cle over Marcel Dareus and Nick Fairley
- Dareus falling all the way to 7
- Detroit trading up to 10, to grab ALDON SMITH???
- Minnesota reaching for Carimi at 12
- Washington taking Mark Ingram at 13. This is by far the worst pick and makes no sense
- The Jags taking Jon Baldwin at 16, rather than waiting until the 3rd round
- The Pats reaching for Derek Sherrod at 17
- Other big reaches: Ayers at 18, Watkins 19, Sheard 21, Ijalana 22 and Brandon Harris 23
- Prince Amukamara falling to 24
- Christian Ponder the top QB taken
- Gabbert falling to 28
- The Raiders having so many picks they can afford to move up into the first to take a guy with major character concerns


Its one thing to mock a bad pick to a team because you think that will happen (Newton to Carolina), its another story when the picks are what you would do as a GM. In the wise words of Michael Irvin, C'mon Man.

Carimi to Minnesota, "reach" or not, makes a great deal of sense. He is the best run blocking OL projected to round one, Minny is a run first team, Minny also favors slow, oversized OTs like Carimi - he's actually an upgrade at either OT slot athletically. Carimi to LT automatically gives Minny a 10 year starter, a case of the perfect player for their philosophy. "Reach" or not, it's one of the smarter picks I've ever seen from Bunting.