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2010 Receptions (from who)


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I posted a month ago that I think Edelman can provide around 65 catches in place of Welker. So unless Welker can come off the pup and contribute or we find a vet to contribute this team will lose around 40 receptions from last year.

Where does that number come from?

The stretch that kept him out in midseason was a freak accident, and in the last two games he played, Edelman had 16 catches.

I'm not guaranteeing Edelman will threaten Marvin Harrison's reception record, but projecting "65 catches" seems awfully random.
 
There's a lot of factors that I don't think are being considered here.

1. Slot production: A number of Welker's catches came because of the threat of Randy Moss down the field. How many times were teams in a conservative zone and the closest player to Welker was an LB? Quite frequently. If Edelman can stay healthy, he should do a nice job replacing Welker's catches in certain situations. I am worried about who replaces Welker when a team is good enough to pay a lot of attention to the slot and Welker STILL gets open with his quickness. Also, Welker is obviously better after the catch than Edelman.

2. Running game: The Patriots needed to throw it so much because they couldn't count on the running game to either get significant yards on first down or consistently pick up 3rd and short. If the running game improves, the projected number of catches could easily drop by 50 (which is just 3 per game).

3. No.2 WR: This is a huge need and what we lacking last year. Aiken, Stanbeck, etc, simply are not legitimate starting options. The lack of any concern over the no.2 WR made the Patriots much easier to defend. In some ways Stallworth made the Pats more dangerous/difficult to defend than Gaffney because the threat of the BIG play was there.

4. TE: I think we need a TE with more speed than Crumpler to be our no.2 guy. Brady did take advantage of Watson against LB's at times last year and Crumpler really won't have a speed advantage there.
 
What could Edelman do?
I'd say we first look at the games he was the Pats' slot receiver.
Welker missed the Pats 2nd and 3rd game last year, and basically missed the last game of the regular season also:
Wes Welker Career Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Now here are Edelman's numbers in those three games:
21 receptions for 221 yards
Average per game: 7 receptions for 74 yards
Avg/game x 16 games = 112 receptions for 1179 yards

75% of those numbers = 84 catches for 884 yards
Is that a reasonable expectation?

By comparison, 50% would be 56 receptions for 589 yards

Julian Edelman Career Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com
 
AFCE:
Jest - giving Cromartie the benefit of the doubt :rofl: they have a strong secondary.
Dolfish - Davis had a strong rookie year, Smith could be better, and Miami is working hard to address the Safeties.
Bills - rebuilding.

Let's assume Revis will shut Moss down with some Safety help over the top and Cromartie sticks to the #2 and Sexy Rexy has his blitz on - where does Tommy go in the passing game? My answer would be TE, specifically H-back types. NE has had private workouts with Pitta, Hernandez, and Moeaki. They've reportedly taken a close look at ****erson, McCoy, and Gresham. With a healthy Moss demanding a double-team and Edelbinky pressuring the rest of the coverage package, a receiving TE like those six listed is going to beat a LB more often then not - which either forces NY into a Nickel on the TE (run game opportunity), or leaving Moss one on one, which will be a challenge for Revis.

The other option is a third WR whom Tommy trusts - yes Patten comes to mind, but Tate could prove himself, Stanback hasn't been written off yet (I'm waiting to see if they are going to use him at WR or QB), and I like some of the kids NE has been working out.

It all comes back to the health of the WR corps, and Brady getting in-sync with his #3-4/TE options.
 
Put all of that together and you don't need to build a run-n-shoot WR corps.

We've had this argument already this offseason, but I just have to reiterate - if a stacked wide receiver group brought you 16-0, why wouldn't we try and re-create it?
 
We've had this argument already this offseason, but I just have to reiterate - if a stacked wide receiver group brought you 16-0, why wouldn't we try and re-create it?

Because you have limited resources. Spend them to ensure you have a stacked WR group and other parts of your team will get less attention. And the addition of a top WR to an otherwise very good passing game will make the position "stacked" but doesn't make the team incrementally stronger more than getting a top DE or top OLB at a position of need.

Also, dropping back over 600 times will result in Brady getting hit more and leave the team counting on the offense kicking butt every game. That is hard to pull off for 3 straight games against playoff caliber defenses with Brady feeling the effects of getting whacked 5-10 times a game over a full season.

Let me pose another question...If a balanced offense and opportunistic defense won you 3 titles in 4 years, why wouldn't you try and re-create it? That seems more likely than recapturing the perfect storm of 2007. That dream died on a sunny day in September 2008.
 
We are not close to matching the defense of the 2004 team. We are much closer to matching the 2007 team. I do agree that it would be good to have a better running offense, especially on short yardage. But I think that this was less about our running backs, and more about scheme and the lack of production from the TE and flanker position. Curiously if we have a flanker (instead of Aiken) and a much better starting TE,
we will likely have the need for FEWER passes. The offense would be better, but the number of passes would be fewer.

Besides, the league has changed. It is not clear that trying to match the team structure of 2001-2004 would bring the success it brought then.
====================
You speak about limited resources and then say we need a top DE or OLB instead. No one is suggesting an "either or" but you. We need a WR, a TE, and two DE or OLB's. These might come from the draft of from trades or from our four top 53 draft picks.
===========


Branch
Olsen or a draftee
Odrick or Carrington or Williams
Hughes
Tate


Because you have limited resources. Spend them to ensure you have a stacked WR group and other parts of your team will get less attention. And the addition of a top WR to an otherwise very good passing game will make the position "stacked" but doesn't make the team incrementally stronger more than getting a top DE or top OLB at a position of need.

Also, dropping back over 600 times will result in Brady getting hit more and leave the team counting on the offense kicking butt every game. That is hard to pull off for 3 straight games against playoff caliber defenses with Brady feeling the effects of getting whacked 5-10 times a game over a full season.

Let me pose another question...If a balanced offense and opportunistic defense won you 3 titles in 4 years, why wouldn't you try and re-create it? That seems more likely than recapturing the perfect storm of 2007. That dream died on a sunny day in September 2008.
 
We are not close to matching the defense of the 2004 team. We are much closer to matching the 2007 team.

This is where we disagree, which is fine. There are 5 players on defense (Wilfork, Warren, Mayo, Bodden, Meriweather) that compare favorably to 2004, 2 more that could with a good sophomore jump (Butler, Chung) and 1 unknown that could surprise (McKenzie). That isn't counting sub players (Wright, Guyton) that have done well, some solid vets and young depth. It isn't 2004 yet but a key acquisition here and there (Jason Taylor?) and a solid draft and the Pats could be mighty close.

The 2007 offense isn't happening again with this group of players. Brady, Moss, Light, Koppen and Neal have turned a corner in the last couple of years where they probably aren't physically able to duplicate those results and the coaching staff likely doesn't want to expose them to that kind of offense. So while I agree that this offense is closer to the 2007 squad, it is moving in the opposite direction.

I do agree that it would be good to have a better running offense, especially on short yardage. But I think that this was less about our running backs, and more about scheme and the lack of production from the TE and flanker position. Curiously if we have a flanker (instead of Aiken) and a much better starting TE,
we will likely have the need for FEWER passes. The offense would be better, but the number of passes would be fewer.

100% agree and bet that Belichick does as well.

Besides, the league has changed. It is not clear that trying to match the team structure of 2001-2004 would bring the success it brought then.

You're right. A better way of putting it would be to have the defense muck in to the overall team success at the same level that the 2004 squad did. Same for special teams. The offense has been shouldering too much of a burden for too long. Used to be that moving the ball out near midfield, punting and pinning the opponents near their goal line was a clear victory for the Pats. It needs to be that way again.

You speak about limited resources and then say we need a top DE or OLB instead. No one is suggesting an "either or" but you. We need a WR, a TE, and two DE or OLB's. These might come from the draft of from trades or from our four top 53 draft picks.

Never my intention to suggest an either/or. In fact, every one of my draft projects for the Pats have involved at least one WR. It is just that they are never on the 1st two days.

Branch
Olsen or a draftee
Odrick or Carrington or Williams
Hughes
Tate

This looks good but it is fairly unrealistic. Olsen (or someone like Pitta) would cost a 2nd. Don't see Branch coming for a 4th or later. Odrick and Hughes won't be around at #44 so it would require a trade-up to get both. Tate might be the same. So while this looks good, it isn't likely to happen without using a 1st rounder from 2011 (way outside the scope of this thread).

Could a WR be picked by the Pats before Saturday? Sure, particularly if someone falls or the Pats trade down and end up with more picks. Would that WR end up ahead of BTate/Edelman on the depth chart? Possibly but that would require using #22 or #44 (there is a serious drop after that level). Why draft a WR in the 2nd round of a deep draft, yet have the WR start out #4 on the depth chart (#5 when Welker returns)? That wouldn't get the Pats offense much closer to 2007 but it would be a missed opportunity to significantly improve the athleticism of the defense.

There are choices to be made with those pre-Saturday picks. Once Saturday rolls around, use those picks for as many WRs (draft or trade) as you want. That should ensure Aiken stays on ST and Brady has enough target until and after Welker comes back. But fail to fill those multiple key holes on defense and TE with those top 50 picks and Brady won't be able to pass this team to a title.
 
I wish you wouldn't keep discounting Welker from everything.

It has been said his comeback is going very well from all sources. I wont be shocked if he is fully healthy by week 6. I'd count on him for a minimum 30 receptions while we work him back in.

What is scary is that Welker could end up with 60-90 receptions if he plays in 10 games..
 
What could Edelman do?
I'd say we first look at the games he was the Pats' slot receiver.
Welker missed the Pats 2nd and 3rd game last year, and basically missed the last game of the regular season also:
Wes Welker Career Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Now here are Edelman's numbers in those three games:
21 receptions for 221 yards
Average per game: 7 receptions for 74 yards
Avg/game x 16 games = 112 receptions for 1179 yards

75% of those numbers = 84 catches for 884 yards
Is that a reasonable expectation?

By comparison, 50% would be 56 receptions for 589 yards

Julian Edelman Career Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

You know what's scary? Edelman seems to have the talent and our offensive system could allow him to have a 100 reception pro bowl season. :eek:

If that happens, IDK what the pats would do. You can't have two underneath stud slot receivers on the field at once, can you? Only way I see it is you go 4 wide (Moss, rookie, Edelman, Welker) and have a RB back there. TE would literally be gone from the playbook though, lol.
 
You know what's scary? Edelman seems to have the talent and our offensive system could allow him to have a 100 reception pro bowl season. :eek:

If that happens, IDK what the pats would do. You can't have two underneath stud slot receivers on the field at once, can you? Only way I see it is you go 4 wide (Moss, rookie, Edelman, Welker) and have a RB back there. TE would literally be gone from the playbook though, lol.

After the smackdown of the Titans, Reiss noted:

WR Sam Aiken -- 63 of 80 snaps
WR Wes Welker -- 61 of 80
TE Chris Baker -- 55 of 80
QB Tom Brady -- 55 of 80
WR Randy Moss -- 48 of 80
WR Julian Edelman -- 45 of 80

Moss and Brady did not play the final four series of the game, exiting the game together. ... ... The Patriots had two different two-receiver packages, which was a different look -- one had Moss and Aiken paired together, and another had Welker and Edelman. This reflects how the Patriots try different things to utilize their personnel, and shows that Edelman and Welker are more than slot receivers.
 
Why is this so unreasonable?

22 Hughes
44 Tate
47 Carrington
53 traded for Olsen or used on a TE
fa Branch (he is expected to be waived, but we could give them a 6th)
fa Burgess or Taylor

I would expect a RB at 119
--------------------------

.

This looks good but it is fairly unrealistic. Olsen (or someone like Pitta) would cost a 2nd. Don't see Branch coming for a 4th or later. Odrick and Hughes won't be around at #44 so it would require a trade-up to get both. Tate might be the same. So while this looks good, it isn't likely to happen without using a 1st rounder from 2011 (way outside the scope of this thread).

Could a WR be picked by the Pats before Saturday? Sure, particularly if someone falls or the Pats trade down and end up with more picks. Would that WR end up ahead of BTate/Edelman on the depth chart? Possibly but that would require using #22 or #44 (there is a serious drop after that level). Why draft a WR in the 2nd round of a deep draft, yet have the WR start out #4 on the depth chart (#5 when Welker returns)? That wouldn't get the Pats offense much closer to 2007 but it would be a missed opportunity to significantly improve the athleticism of the defense.

There are choices to be made with those pre-Saturday picks. Once Saturday rolls around, use those picks for as many WRs (draft or trade) as you want. That should ensure Aiken stays on ST and Brady has enough target until and after Welker comes back. But fail to fill those multiple key holes on defense and TE with those top 50 picks and Brady won't be able to pass this team to a title.
 
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