2009 Senior Bowl

[Ochmed Jones]

Interesting to contemplate where a guy like that would go this year. Came from a weak program, needed time to refine his game, but...

6"5' 225 4.61, super athletic, very strong arm, 4-year captain with fabulous intangibles.

I think intangibles are important, but he led his team in passing and rushing as a senior, that says a ton in my book.

 

[patchick]

I think intangibles are important, but he led his team in passing and rushing as a senior, that says a ton in my book.

Quite so, I somehow deleted the part where I talked about his actual accomplishments!

Before the draft last year, I didn't see a huge gap between O'Connell and Flacco.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

One guys top 10 Senior Bowl performers...

http://nflmocks.com/2009/01/25/10-2009-senior-bowl-performances-that-impressed-us/

 

[Metaphors]

Before the draft last year, I didn't see a huge gap between O'Connell and Flacco.

To use a golf analogy, Flacco had the big driver but a questionable short game. O'Connell had all the tools but an inconsistent swing held him back.

I think O'Connell was a perfect choice as a developmental QB for the Pats since he has all the tools to run a true spread offense. Think Tebow with a plus arm and the ability to read defenses. His only real negative that I could see was inconsistent mechanics...which is a pretty big negative when you think about it. He looked majorly improved this past preseason and Brady's injury got him some #2 practice snaps this year.

Assuming he keeps progressing, I could see him taking the wheel in the post-Brady years. Maybe even being a "package" QB as Brady gets a little older. Again, think Tebow his freshman year.

I don't see that type of QB in college with O'Connell's height and arm strength. Put that size and skill at Florida or USC and I'm convinced he would have been a top pick. Stafford and Sanchez both have loads of question marks and they will likely both go top 10 this year.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

SI.com Risers and Faller from the game.

Linemen*rule roost at Senior Bowl - NFL - SI.com

 

[VJCPatriot]

Quite so, I somehow deleted the part where I talked about his actual accomplishments!

Before the draft last year, I didn't see a huge gap between O'Connell and Flacco.

I really like KO's athleticism and arm. I don't think BB anticipated Brady going down. I think it was more like he thought it was about time to start developing another QB. Perhaps he foresaw Gutieerez not cutting it and didn't like what he saw in the 'vet backup' free agent market.

The names that stand out from the senior bowl for me:

Alphonso Smith CB (5'9 193)- Played impressively, he's the kind of quick smurf cb that BB seems to love. Also makes plays on the ball when it goes his way. Some scouts call him the next Flowers.

Larry English DE/OLB (6'2 254) - I am wondering if he could play 3-4 OLB. He certainly looked like one of the best passrushers at the senior bowl.

Juaquin Iglesias WR (6' 204) - I know WR is not a 'need' per say but the kid knew how to get open at the Bowl. Strengths are route running, getting open, and size. I know Juaquin doesn't pass the smurf test... but Randy Moss worked out just fine in our offense and he's 6'4!

Lots of other good players there including some tight end and interior linemen prospect, but I'm not sure I'm down with spending a 1st day pick on one of them. Then again the Pats have TWO 2nd round picks, so they might grab someone there. Moore's drop is kind of a shocker. What happened to him??

 

[DaBruinz]

One guys top 10 Senior Bowl performers...

http://nflmocks.com/2009/01/25/10-2009-senior-bowl-performances-that-impressed-us/

Its interesting that Maualuga is on that list. Did you or Ochmed see what that author saw?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Its interesting that Maualuga is on that list. Did you or Ochmed see what that author saw?

"Rey outplayed teammate Brian Cushing after a week where it looked like Cushing might pass him on draft boards."
-- Uncle Boxster translation: Cushing had a strong week of practice and outshown Maualuga - in this author's opinion - moving Cushing higher on draft boards. But in the game Maualuga made a couple flashy plays, which the author applauds, thus reinstating him atop the USC draft class.

"He rebounded immediately from a missed tackle early on to cause a fumble on the same series."
-- Uncle Boxster translation: Forced fumbles are good and give the author sweaty palms, missed tackles are bad, but forgivable if you force a fumble on the next series.

"Later in the game he absolutely annihilated an attempted halfback screen, beating standout center Max Unger to make the play."
-- Uncle Boxster translation: Rey made a good read and used his speed to make a good play out on the edge.

"He looked like a pro amongst amateurs out there at times. The NFL needs a Rey for the next generation. He’s ready."
-- Uncle Boxster translation: The author will be busy in the bathroom for awhile thinking about Rey as a replacement for Ray.

I may be somewhat underwhelmed by Rey and the author's glowing remarks. I saw nothing from Rey that I haven't seen from him before, he's fast, and when he can get up a head of steam and find an unobstructed path, he can deliver a big hit. Rey did surprise me with his forced fumble - he was being blocked, usually that means he's out of the play - Peerman gets a black mark for his sloppy ball security on that run.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I don't think he lasts until 23 anyway but I see him as a good fit in NE, especially alongside an another athletic ILB like Mayo. Essentially you have your Bruschi type (Mayo) and a faster less physical Ted Johnson type (Megs) and hopefully your coverage (Phifer) type in Guyton.

It is hard to project college LBs into the 3-4 style the Pats play because maybe only 2 or 3 colleges play a 3-4 as their base defense. Megs could play the attack style because that is the scheme USC ran, IMO he will excel as an old school LB in any scheme he plays in.

It brings up and interesting point, if Megs is a 2 down LB and Laurinaitis is too small it goes to show you how picky we have become to find ILB talent. Both excellent college players, multiple all American selections but yet no good enough for the Patriots.

What is missing from your prescription is who provides the ILB blitzer? Tedy Bruschi, in his prime, brought the all-time NCAA sack record to his position as ILB. That GENUINE, FEARED threat, made it possible that any of three different LBs would be blitzing. As Tedy has aged, that blitzing unpredictability has waned. Now the Offense only has to worry about only two, not three alternative blitzing LBs.

The best ILB blitzer I have seen in a long time, that has any size, is 245# Lauranitis. His college sack totals show enormous production from that tight, restricted position. The distance is shorter to the QB, but crowded with bodies. Tedy was a DT sometimes in college; and could operate in that tight area, effectively most can't. So you can't just shuffle an OLB blitzer inside, it doesn't work. I was hoping Sintim would fit, but the more I see, he just doesn't look quick enough for the ILB role, or the ILB blitzing role.

Box thinks a two down run-stuffer is what is needed, a duplicate Ted Johnson, so do you apparently; I disgree vehemently.

I want that, PLUS I want, and BB's Defenses need even more, an ILB blitzing capacity. Tedy provided that, TJ didn't need it, and Mayo just does not. Mayo is fine ILB, but neither his performance with the Pats, nor his college production, indicates that ILB blitzing is his forte`. So the other guy must have it. And a pure Ted Johnson type does not provide it; as Tedy did the duty.

Since there are no super safeties in this draft, shutting down the pass by LBs would help. Guyton can certainly assist there. It plays to his talent. But he looks to be a 3rd down ILB; who covers the middle on 1st and 2nd down? A two down run-stuffer, a duplicate TJ, certainly would not, either. Once again, that was a capability that Tedy provided, instead. Mayo is somewhat facile in that capacity, but he is not a Tedy Bruschi in his prime, in pass coverage. OTOH, Mayo is a better run-stuffer, than Tedy ever was.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Sporting News biggest winners:

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[Box_O_Rocks]

Box thinks a two down run-stuffer is what is needed, a duplicate Ted johnson; I disgree vehemently.

Box thinks a two down run-stuffer is the 'baseline' for SILB. Finding a coverage/blitz LB in the body of a two down run-stuffer would be nice, at the moment Adalius Thomas is that person, but he's got three years left and no apparent successor in sight.

 

[KevinFaulk-33]

Box thinks a two down run-stuffer is the 'baseline' for SILB. Finding a coverage/blitz LB in the body of a two down run-stuffer would be nice, at the moment Adalius Thomas is that person, but he's got three years left and no apparent successor in sight.

So we only need an OLB! Or we have to hope that Woods can contribute!

Do you think that if Adalius is moved to the SILB spot we need another OLB?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

So we only need an OLB! Or we have to hope that Woods can contribute!

Do you think that if Adalius is moved to the SILB spot we need another OLB?

What I think:
-- Adalius is the best candidate for SILB.
-- Mayo is probably the #2 for SILB.
-- Woods looked good enough to be a part of the regular OLB rotation.
-- Guyton looked good enough to be a part of the regular ILB rotation.
-- Bruschi's reps are already being cut back.
-- Vrabel may have been playing with an injury, but if he wasn't then it's time to cut back his reps.
-- Crable, Redd, Ruud, Craig, and Robertson are all still in the project stage.
-- Curry is going too high for NE, but he would be a decent WILB.
-- Sintim is the "safest" LB pick, other than Curry, because he has already played in a 3-4 at OLB and projects easily to OLB for NE.
-- Cushing is the only other draft prospect who might be ready enough to take OLB reps as a rookie, but I'm not seeing a lot of upside for him.
-- My next two OLB prospects whom I like are Barwin and English, and both would just be part of the project pool listed above.
-- That BB either has a three man OLB rotation or a three man ILB rotation and Adalius is the swing man who'll make either work.
-- That drafting a 3-4 experienced OLB looks to be the easier option in this draft with Sintim, Cushing, and Matthews.
-- That with Thomas there is no urgency to find a SILB, as long as BB acquires or develops someone for OLB this season.

What I suspect:
-- That Sintim has sufficient athleticism to move inside to SILB alongside Mayo (which would probably require a couple years during which he helps the OLB rotation). We'll know more after the Combine.
-- That Craig might be an option at SILB.

 

[ayjackson]

What I think:
-- Adalius is the best candidate for SILB.
-- Mayo is probably the #2 for SILB.
-- Woods looked good enough to be a part of the regular OLB rotation.
-- Guyton looked good enough to be a part of the regular ILB rotation.
-- Bruschi's reps are already being cut back.
-- Vrabel may have been playing with an injury, but if he wasn't then it's time to cut back his reps.
-- Crable, Redd, Ruud, Craig, and Robertson are all still in the project stage.
-- Curry is going too high for NE, but he would be a decent WILB.
-- Sintim is the "safest" LB pick, other than Curry, because he has already played in a 3-4 at OLB and projects easily to OLB for NE.
-- Cushing is the only other draft prospect who might be ready enough to take OLB reps as a rookie, but I'm not seeing a lot of upside for him.
-- My next two OLB prospects whom I like are Barwin and English, and both would just be part of the project pool listed above.
-- That BB either has a three man OLB rotation or a three man ILB rotation and Adalius is the swing man who'll make either work.
-- That drafting a 3-4 experienced OLB looks to be the easier option in this draft with Sintim, Cushing, and Matthews.
-- That with Thomas there is no urgency to find a SILB, as long as BB acquires or develops someone for OLB this season.

What I suspect:
-- That Sintim has sufficient athleticism to move inside to SILB alongside Mayo (which would probably require a couple years during which he helps the OLB rotation). We'll know more after the Combine.
-- That Craig might be an option at SILB.

So this is where the "What BOR thinks" post is hiding.

ayjackson thinks that if we signed Bart Scott or Carlos Dansby in the first week of February, we wouldn't have to speak about drafting linebackers for several years.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

So this is where the "What BOR thinks" post is hiding.

ayjackson thinks that if we signed Bart Scott or Carlos Dansby in the first week of February, we wouldn't have to speak about drafting linebackers for several years.

Bart Scott - no, serious dain bramage.

Carlos Dansby - cool, unfortunately there is a $$$ issue to ponder.

 

[ayjackson]

Bart Scott - no, serious dain bramage.

Carlos Dansby - cool, unfortunately there is a $$$ issue to ponder.

hmmm dain bramage....i know all athout bat.

 

[dryheat44]

What is missing from your prescription is who provides the ILB blitzer? Tedy Bruschi, in his prime, brought the all-time NCAA sack record to his position as ILB. That GENUINE, FEARED threat, made it possible that any of three different LBs would be blitzing. As Tedy has aged, that blitzing unpredictability has waned. Now the Offense only has to worry about only two, not three alternative blitzing LBs.

The best ILB blitzer I have seen in a long time, that has any size, is 245# Lauranitis. His college sack totals show enormous production from that tight, restricted position. The distance is shorter to the QB, but crowded with bodies. Tedy was a DT sometimes in college; and could operate in that tight area, effectively most can't. So you can't just shuffle an OLB blitzer inside, it doesn't work. I was hoping Sintim would fit, but the more I see, he just doesn't look quick enough for the ILB role, or the ILB blitzing role.

Box thinks a two down run-stuffer is what is needed, a duplicate Ted Johnson, so do you apparently; I disgree vehemently.

I want that, PLUS I want, and BB's Defenses need even more, an ILB blitzing capacity. Tedy provided that, TJ didn't need it, and Mayo just does not. Mayo is fine ILB, but neither his performance with the Pats, nor his college production, indicates that ILB blitzing is his forte`. So the other guy must have it. And a pure Ted Johnson type does not provide it; as Tedy did the duty.

Since there are no super safeties in this draft, shutting down the pass by LBs would help. Guyton can certainly assist there. It plays to his talent. But he looks to be a 3rd down ILB; who covers the middle on 1st and 2nd down? A two down run-stuffer, a duplicate TJ, certainly would not, either. Once again, that was a capability that Tedy provided, instead. Mayo is somewhat facile in that capacity, but he is not a Tedy Bruschi in his prime, in pass coverage. OTOH, Mayo is a better run-stuffer, than Tedy ever was.

I like the thought that went into this post. However, we're talking about a three down ILB with the ability to shut down the run AND be an elite pass rusher. There are two ways about doing this...drafting one in the top 10, or developing one. Moving into the top 10 tends to be cost-prohibitive....and frankly, I'm not sure who the latest one to come into the draft was. As much as I like AJ Hawk, blitzing's really not his thing. Patrick Willis isn't known for his blitzing. Other recent guys like Connor and Pozluzny were incomplete coming out of college. We might have to go back to Dan Morgan.

The other alternative is to develop somebody, like the guy you cite in your post. He only cost a third-round pick, but Bruschi had to make the team as a special teams player...was eased into the OLB role...and finally was shifted to the Jack...and it took him a couple of years to really excel there, and then moved to the Mike, where he's been less effective. I think this might be the route to take with a Matt Shaughnessy.

 

[p8ryts]

We have plenty of capable LB's, the question is where to line up who? Vrabel or Thomas inside makes sense if we don't come up with an ILB in the draft. Guyton can contribute but can he step up to be a starter. The defensive problem is pass rush. We need someone to consistently push the pocket and it hasn't been happening. Maybe its scheme and not people but I think we have a non existent 4 man rush especially from the outside. Wright, Seymour and Wilfork do some work inside but the outside pressure is not there.

Who knows how the young linebackers will develop this year. We do need to replace Tedy in the box, I agree with BOR on that but mostly we need someone to rush the passer from the outside. If that happened I believe out CB's would look better because the could cover more aggressively early.

Behind the pass rusher, we need a hitter at SS. Those are the two biggest needs in my estimation. Third is to replace Billy Yates and Russ Hockhstein with one body and 4th find a blocking TE. Maybe the LSU fullback Quinn Johnson can convert, he's only 6'2" but built like Daniel Graham.

 

[DaBruinz]

Here is something to think about. This past year, Mayo and Guyton were 2 of the 3 LBs on the field in the Pats Nickle formation. Both were at ILB. And both played reasonably well. With that being said, do the Pats really NEED a ILB that is a 3 down LB since he's most likely to come off in obvious passing situations? Unless, of course, the Pats move Guyton to one of the OLB positions, but I think doing that weakens the team.

While it would be NICE to have another young LB who can Pass Rush, stop the run and drop back into coverage at the ILB position, therefore allowing him to be on the field for the 1st 3 downs, is it really a NEED? Or would it be a luxury?

 

[Deus Irae]

Here is something to think about. This past year, Mayo and Guyton were 2 of the 3 LBs on the field in the Pats Nickle formation. Both were at ILB. And both played reasonably well. With that being said, do the Pats really NEED a ILB that is a 3 down LB since he's most likely to come off in obvious passing situations? Unless, of course, the Pats move Guyton to one of the OLB positions, but I think doing that weakens the team.

While it would be NICE to have another young LB who can Pass Rush, stop the run and drop back into coverage at the ILB position, therefore allowing him to be on the field for the 1st 3 downs, is it really a NEED? Or would it be a luxury?

This has, sort of, been my line of thinking, as well, especially if we're looking at an ILB via the draft as opposed to free agency. Guyton has a year in the system, and can be expected to be better than he was last season. Getting a "Ted Johnson" type of player for 2 downs and rotating Guyton in on Passing downs doesn't seem as if it would be a problem. I'm less worried about a pass rush from the guy than I am about run stopping, because I think Mayo will be allowed to go after the quarterback more this season.