2009 Draft Redux

[FredFromDartmouth]

I used to be excited about this draft but now I am not so sure. Ron "Flounder" Brace does indeed a look like a disaster but now I don't know what to make of Butler. He looked good last year but lost confidence this year. He certainly has the speed but he need to work on ball skills; I certainly hope he can turn it around; I would hate to think that the Patriots made such a hash of the second round...

 

[jays52]

I used to be excited about this draft but now I am not so sure. Ron "Flounder" Brace does indeed a look like a disaster but now I don't know what to make of Butler. He looked good last year but lost confidence this year. He certainly has the speed but he need to work on ball skills; I certainly hope he can turn it around; I would hate to think that the Patriots made such a hash of the second round...

Don't forget the players from the 2010 draft that were taken because of the 2009 trades.

That said, between Vollmer, Chung, Tate and Edelman the Patriots got some damn fine players.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Overall you can not complain. Especially if their only whiff was Brace. Brace was a economic decision (Krafts?) not a football decision

 

[patchick]

Overall you can not complain. Especially if their only whiff was Brace. Brace was a economic decision (Krafts?) not a football decision

Hold on...did you really just suggest that the Krafts overruled the football guys and insisted that they spend the #40 overall pick on Brace for economic reasons? As in, the struggling Patriots franchise was desperate to ride the coattails of the massive Boston College football following, who would eagerly tune in to watch a defensive tackle draw double teams?

:bricks:

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Hold on...did you really just suggest that the Krafts overruled the football guys and insisted that they spend the #40 overall pick on Brace for economic reasons? As in, the struggling Patriots franchise was desperate to ride the coattails of the massive Boston College football following, who would eagerly tune in to watch a defensive tackle draw double teams?

:bricks:

As in, "The Krafts are too cheap to pay Wilfork, so let's draft his insurance."

So, yeah, to sum up, I'll go with your response: :bricks:

 

[jsull87]

You can't just point out the bad of 2009 when your looking at it you have to point out the good.

2a Chung - Starting Safety - Great Pick
2b Butler - Started start of the year but has now fallen out of favor... atm looking bad.
2c Brace - Has started games but it's hard to gauge this one as now he has lost time to a developing Deadrick.
2d Vollmer - Starting RT started LT and RT last year... Homerun

3a Tate - Special KR and 3rd wr - Basically his rookie season this gets a pass
3b Mckenzie - Injured then PS - Sort of becomes moot now spikes is here, and Fletcher has also been getting more time so seems to be our 5th ILB

4 Ohrnberger - too early

5 Bussey - too early

6a Ingram - Starting Long snapper great last year so so this year... pass
6b Pryor - In the rotation in sub packages as a penetrating DL great value pick

7a Edelman - What do i have to say great last year. medium this year but we suspect some injuries haven't helped. For a 7th round qb who ato ne point last year was our #2 wr... great pick

7b Richard - ps ... SO SO

Looking at that draft as a whole it is a positive draft we gained 2 starters, plus ingram, edelman, tate who have started/contributed alot at their respective positions. Now maybe we miss on brace and butler but unlike other teams with less picks, we aren't as hurt by that. But here's hping they come through for us anyway. I say it was a good draft 1 starter away from being a very good draft

 

[Coach42]

Way too early to be calling anyone from 2009 a bust. Players don't follow a linear path to the field, careers have ebbs and flow. Take Samuel and Wilson as an example. One year after that draft you would have said Wilson looks like a future STUD and Samuel might be a nice 3rd or fourth corner, now a little different. So just relax and enjoy the recent run of wins.

 

[mgteich]

I think that this was a very good draft. We shouldn't underestimate the two wideouts who are turned out to be our #3 and #4 receivers as well being our punt and kick returners.

I think that Butler will eventually learn enough to be our nickel or dime back.

You can't just point out the bad of 2009 when your looking at it you have to point out the good.

2a Chung - Starting Safety - Great Pick
2b Butler - Started start of the year but has now fallen out of favor... atm looking bad.
2c Brace - Has started games but it's hard to gauge this one as now he has lost time to a developing Deadrick.
2d Vollmer - Starting RT started LT and RT last year... Homerun

3a Tate - Special KR and 3rd wr - Basically his rookie season this gets a pass
3b Mckenzie - Injured then PS - Sort of becomes moot now spikes is here, and Fletcher has also been getting more time so seems to be our 5th ILB

4 Ohrnberger - too early

5 Bussey - too early

6a Ingram - Starting Long snapper great last year so so this year... pass
6b Pryor - In the rotation in sub packages as a penetrating DL great value pick

7a Edelman - What do i have to say great last year. medium this year but we suspect some injuries haven't helped. For a 7th round qb who ato ne point last year was our #2 wr... great pick

7b Richard - ps ... SO SO

Looking at that draft as a whole it is a positive draft we gained 2 starters, plus ingram, edelman, tate who have started/contributed alot at their respective positions. Now maybe we miss on brace and butler but unlike other teams with less picks, we aren't as hurt by that. But here's hping they come through for us anyway. I say it was a good draft 1 starter away from being a very good draft

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

As in, "The Krafts are too cheap to pay Wilfork, so let's draft his insurance."

So, yeah, to sum up, I'll go with your response: :bricks:

Yes. Maybe the Krafts were concerned that they could not sign Vince or maybe they told BB to draft an moose for the middle in case Vince walked or they wanted to not be in an awkward position negotiating the deal with no fall back position. Far-fetched but possible.

Brace was certainly drafted as Wilfork insurance. Whether the Krafts got involved is hard to say...

 

[BritPat]

Yes. Maybe the Krafts were concerned that they could not sign Vince or maybe they told BB to draft an moose for the middle in case Vince walked or they wanted to not be in an awkward position negotiating the deal with no fall back position. Far-fetched but possible.

Brace was certainly drafted as Wilfork insurance. Whether the Krafts got involved is hard to say...

No, it's not hard to say, in fact it's very easy to say - it's bollocks.

If you believe it was an economic Draft decision, you should be ignored from now on, because you're utterly, totally, certifiably, a stark raving lunatic.

 

[mgteich]

??????????????

OK, the Krafts were NOT involved in the drafting of Brace. And no, the Krafts were not involved in the renogotiations with Wilfork. However, it doesn't take a lunatic to believe that part of the reason Brace was drafted was "economic"; that is, the choice was affected by the future negotiations with Wilfork.

That being said, many folks think that Brace was drafted as "Wilfork insurance". It was not at all clear that we would be able to re-sign Wilfork. We needed a top NT prospect in case Wilfork was not re-signed. And yes, having an obvious Plan B does help a team's negotiating position. The only other such option was to trade up three or four picks to draft Raji from BC' everone's #1 NT by far.

Should Brace have been drafted at #40. Obviously the team's estimated of his value as a defensive prospect was only part of the answer. There was a value in drafted a NT as insurance against not being able to re-sign a veteran. After all, some veterans don't end up being re-signed.
===========

And yes, I know that there were those, then and now, who think that Brace was the highest valued player on the patriots board and we traded up to get this great value. FOr me, this is only true if a lot of value was placed on Brace's insurance value. Given that, I was OK with drafted the slowest player in the nfl at #40.

No, it's not hard to say, in fact it's very easy to say - it's bollocks.

If you believe it was an economic Draft decision, you should be ignored from now on, because you're utterly, totally, certifiably, a stark raving lunatic.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I wanted Vontae Davis, Orakpo, Harvin, Raji, or Maualuga. Pretty much knew we werent trading up for Orakpo or Raji. I was so pissed when Harvin went one pick before us but wanted Vontae or Rey after it happened.

Vontae would look really nice in our secondary right now and I like Spikes but always preferred Rey.

Cant complain about Vollmer Chung Tate and Edelman but can complain about Brace Mckenzie Butler Bussey and Ohrnberger. If you needed a cb why trade down with davis right there? Many people had him as their #1 cb, myself included.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

No, it's not hard to say, in fact it's very easy to say - it's bollocks.

If you believe it was an economic Draft decision, you should be ignored from now on, because you're utterly, totally, certifiably, a stark raving lunatic.

I agree 100%, no way was this a decision about economics, it was a football decision.

But it is odd that BB drafted a college 4-3 DT that clearly does not understand and does not have any desire to play a 3-4 NT.

 

[sbpatfan]

I agree 100%, no way was this a decision about economics, it was a football decision.

But it is odd that BB drafted a college 4-3 DT that clearly does not understand and does not have any desire to play a 3-4 NT.

Do you watch college football at all? There are only three, maybe four teams that regularly run the 3-4 defense, out of 120. Wilfork was also from the 4-3, almost every player that is drafted as a 3-4 NT is converting over. Plus, BB tells us absolutely nothing. How do you know anything about his plans for Brace or what Brace's desires even are? Or do you just enjoy making crap up?

 

[WelshPat]

Warren was drafted to be a NT, but they quickly learnt that he couldn't play that role and moved to DE. I think the same has happened to Brace.

I agree that part of the reason they drafted him was insurance incase they couldn't get Wilfork signed long term. But they still must have liked the player and he filled a need.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Warren was drafted to be a NT, but they quickly learnt that he couldn't play that role and moved to DE. I think the same has happened to Brace.

I agree that part of the reason they drafted him was insurance incase they couldn't get Wilfork signed long term. But they still must have liked the player and he filled a need.

I concur about it being a hedge in case we can't extend Wilfork. Looks like a reach now. But, wasn't bad at the time he was picked. I heard a couple of interviews with him on ESPN prior to the draft. Mel Kiper had him on his Sat. show. Seemed like a humble, hard-working kid who was going to make it. Maybe, he will. Maybe, he won't. But, I didn't think it was a bad pick at the time it was made.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

We're still a long way away from figuring out the 2009 draft pieces. Butler was really promising his first season, awful this season. Brace was invisible last season, showed lots of promise early on, disappeared for a stretch, but got back into the line-up last week. He helped out in the run game after the first quarter when Deaderick was struggling, and was a huge part of that goal-line stand at the end of the 4th. Knowing Brace, he'll do nothing for the next 3 games and then have a break-out game right after I give up on him.

Chung and Tate are solid pieces moving forward. Yet both also didn't have much impact as rookies. Ingram/Edelman/Vollmer were solid during rookie seasons, struggled at times during their second seasons. They're all still kids, still inconsistent, and we won't know what we've got for a few more years. Just have to be patient.

 

[reflexblue]

I used to be excited about this draft but now I am not so sure. Ron "Flounder" Brace does indeed a look like a disaster but now I don't know what to make of Butler. He looked good last year but lost confidence this year. He certainly has the speed but he need to work on ball skills; I certainly hope he can turn it around; I would hate to think that the Patriots made such a hash of the second round...

Do you also go by the name Dakota?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Do you also go by the name Dakota?

Only when the feminine side of his personality surfaces. :singing:

 

[rookBoston]

Warren was drafted to be a NT, but they quickly learnt that he couldn't play that role and moved to DE. I think the same has happened to Brace.

I agree that part of the reason they drafted him was insurance incase they couldn't get Wilfork signed long term. But they still must have liked the player and he filled a need.

Drafting Brace and resigning Wilfork are unrelated. Do fans really think that BB only intends to have one NT on his roster at any given time? He has built a roster that is 60 players deep with starting caliber talent that runs to 8 defensive backs, 7 offensive linemen (8 now, with Mankins), 4 wideouts, 3 tight ends, etc etc. Why else horde all those draft picks if not to build a deep roster?

In any case, BB builds his front line with 300+ lbs bodies that are strong and can control gaps. The distinction between NT and DE in our scheme is really not as significant as it may seem. NT needs someone who can take on double blocks and power through trash. But, if you've got someone that can play the nose, that recipe can work at DE too, as demonstrated by the fact that Wilfork, Warren and Wright have all been rotating between NT and DE over the past few weeks.

I personally believe that if BB could play three NTs across his front three, he would. It's just that Nature doesn't provide the football world with enough 310-325# agile and strong athletes who have the right mental makeup to be professionals. If BB has a shot at another prospect or two with the physical and mental profile, I think he'll continue to add players opportunistically.

Lot of opinion on this board that we need to draft some more help for the DL, but frankly I'm pretty pleased with the group we have right now. Warren and Wilfork are blue chippers, but Wright has 4 straight games with a sack, Pryor makes his presence felt-- including knocking Favre under the chin, Deaderick has looked legit as a rookie starter, Brace flashes skills, including the 4th-and-goal stop of Adrian Peterson in Week 8.

I think Brace has work to do to learn how to be a professional's professional, but I chalk that up to immaturity. Hopefully he learns fast. He's got a good mentor in Wilfork.