2009 Buffalo @ NE, Game 1 Breakdown

[BradyManny]

Yep, and you quickly learn that the majority of people who visit the site really have little interest in the nuts and bolts, they'd rather talk about Peter King.

Hey, not that there's anything wrong with that...

An appreciation of the X's and O's, for those of us that haven't played or coached, might be an acquired taste, even if you love football, because its a difficult sport to grasp. I didn't watch games to this level of attention until I joined this board. But it's a truly great hobby, and hopefully more and more people read these threads and pick that up.

The way I look at it is this: I love football, and that, for me, used to only affect Sunday. Now I can spend Monday-Saturday taking a closer look at Sunday's game, and get more out of my football love.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Hey, not that there's anything wrong with that...

An appreciation of the X's and O's, for those of us that haven't played or coached, might be an acquired taste, even if you love football, because its a difficult sport to grasp. I didn't watch games to this level of attention until I joined this board. But it's a truly great hobby, and hopefully more and more people read these threads and pick that up.

The way I look at it is this: I love football, and that, for me, used to only affect Sunday. Now I can spend Monday-Saturday taking a closer look at Sunday's game, and get more out of my football love.

I don't let it take away from my interest in understanding what players are doing within the play to make it work, but you can't help noticing how this kind of thread stacks up against others on the forum.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't let it take away from my interest in understanding what players are doing within the play to make it work, but you can't help noticing how this kind of thread stacks up against others on the forum.

I like to read these threads, and I appreciate the effort put into them. It's a bit more difficult for people to write post after post about, because it gets into the specifics of each play and that's tough to debate unless you take the time to break down the same plays. It's perfect for reviewing the game, and it's great when there's an argument about how a particular player did, it's just not likely to spawn 500 post threads because that would require large numbers of people breaking down the entire game, and I just don't see that happening.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I like to read these threads, and I appreciate the effort put into them. It's a bit more difficult for people to write post after post about, because it gets into the specifics of each play and that's tough to debate unless you take the time to break down the same plays. It's perfect for reviewing the game, and it's great when there's an argument about how a particular player did, it's just not likely to spawn 500 post threads because that would require large numbers of people breaking down the entire game, and I just don't see that happening.

We're talking posts vs hits, I have no issue with people not posting, it's just funny to read threads with people complaining about a player and to note a thread which tries to examine player performance in detail and in context gets significantly fewer "hits" than bashing or speculation threads. Bucky and I can dissect a play to worry at who made what error, but it's like Reiss reporting the running game looked better than he'd first thought, people don't want to read that, they want blood on the barroom floor and players burned in effigy - amusing to observe.

 

[Deus Irae]

We're talking posts vs hits, I have no issue with people not posting, it's just funny to read threads with people complaining about a player and to note a thread which tries to examine player performance in detail and in context gets significantly fewer "hits" than bashing or speculation threads. Bucky and I can dissect a play to worry at who made what error, but it's like Reiss reporting the running game looked better than he'd first thought, people don't want to read that, they want blood on the barroom floor and players burned in effigy - amusing to observe.

Well, sure..... sex sells, if you know what I mean. When you get to the nuts and bolts of this stuff, you'll both weed out those who don't have an interest and limit the responses of those that do: this is going to cut down on views as well as on posts. These are some of the best threads on the board, but comparing them to regular threads is sort of like comparing opera to pop music.

Believe me when I tell you that a prefer these threads to the "ESPN guy says....." by several factors of a million.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Believe me when I tell you that a prefer these threads to the "ESPN guy says....." by several factors of a million.

Well yes, but you're warped and your passion for pop music is unsurpassed. :snob:

 

[Patjew]

We're talking posts vs hits, I have no issue with people not posting, it's just funny to read threads with people complaining about a player and to note a thread which tries to examine player performance in detail and in context gets significantly fewer "hits" than bashing or speculation threads. Bucky and I can dissect a play to worry at who made what error, but it's like Reiss reporting the running game looked better than he'd first thought, people don't want to read that, they want blood on the barroom floor and players burned in effigy - amusing to observe.

I never miss one of these threads. How else could I parrot them and pretend that I know what I'm talking about?

 

[Patspsycho]

We're talking posts vs hits, I have no issue with people not posting, it's just funny to read threads with people complaining about a player and to note a thread which tries to examine player performance in detail and in context gets significantly fewer "hits" than bashing or speculation threads. Bucky and I can dissect a play to worry at who made what error, but it's like Reiss reporting the running game looked better than he'd first thought, people don't want to read that, they want blood on the barroom floor and players burned in effigy - amusing to observe.

Well that's true of pretty much everything in life.. in professions, in hobbies, and living life in general. Those who have a true passion and go to the trouble of cultivating it are far and few, and the remaining majority are dilettantes who travel the path of least resistance in life.

For what it's worth, the hysteric threads consist, if you look at it closely, mostly of people who are only interested in hearing themselves talk.

On that note, would you rather have a large audience of people who will mostly not listen to you, or would you rather have a very small audience who really listen to what you have to say and learn from it?

 

[bucky]

I may not get the second half done. Running simultaneous threads on the two sites gets interesting because you get more input and discussion going - like the discussion with Bucky here and the exchange with Hawg over there.

Two sites? Why would you need to visit another Pats site?

I love the Xs and Os and the scouting part of the game. Reviewing the game is one thing. But I can appreciate how much time it takes to write up a thread like that. I know you've been doing it for a while. Props to you for it. I'll try to come back here every week and discuss some of the more interesting plays.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Two sites? Why would you need to visit another Pats site?

I love the Xs and Os and the scouting part of the game. Reviewing the game is one thing. But I can appreciate how much time it takes to write up a thread like that. I know you've been doing it for a while. Props to you for it. I'll try to come back here every week and discuss some of the more interesting plays.

I was in witness protection for a period and they graciously adopted me - I was deeply appreciative of the shoot on sight rules they applied to my underworld nemesis. I actually spend more time there now and commute back for the additional football discussion (now that the neighborhood watch is more proactive), it takes two sites to manage my NEP Football appetite. Whether It's my thread or pats1's or someone else's, I enjoy seeing how the pieces fit together.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Well that's true of pretty much everything in life.. in professions, in hobbies, and living life in general. Those who have a true passion and go to the trouble of cultivating it are far and few, and the remaining majority are dilettantes who travel the path of least resistance in life.

For what it's worth, the hysteric threads consist, if you look at it closely, mostly of people who are only interested in hearing themselves talk.

On that note, would you rather have a large audience of people who will mostly not listen to you, or would you rather have a very small audience who really listen to what you have to say and learn from it?

It's like church, a large audience doesn't always mean a healthy congregation, but you like the opportunity to share the Word with more people.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I never miss one of these threads. How else could I parrot them and pretend that I know what I'm talking about?

You could learn to use the Vulcan mind-meld properly; it's strictly a euphemism to say some people sit on their brains, which may indicate why they tell you your hand placement is a bit low.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's like church, a large audience doesn't always mean a healthy congregation, but you like the opportunity to share the Word with more people.

Preach on, Brother BOR

 

[Patjew]

You could learn to use the Vulcan mind-meld properly; it's strictly a euphemism to say some people sit on their brains, which may indicate why they tell you your hand placement is a bit low.

Hmmm, I thought those skulls felt a bit squishy.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

15:00 3rd Qtr
Opening KO for the 2nd half: Gostkowski to the goal line.
-- Nice wedge buster double-team magnet play by Chung to suck in both wedge men, this frees up McGowan for a play.
-- Aiken takes the first shot at McKelvin coming up the middle, though he missed, McKelvin was forced off balance from dodging him.
-- McGowan, shielded by Chung occupying the wedge, circles in to stick an off balance McKelvin at the Buffalo 20 and stand him up for a swarm of red jerseys to fly in and perhaps strip the ball. Alexander was the next one in behind McKelvin, but there was a lively dogpile of willing Pats.
-- Buffalo ball at their 21.

14:54 3rd Qtr
1st and 10 Buf 21: Buf 2-wide, 2 TE L
-- NE: 6-1, press-man. L-R Burgess - Warren - Wilfork - Green; Thomas - Guyton - Woods; Wilhite - Bodden; Meriweather - Sanders
-- Toss sweep L. LG cuts Wilfork, LT pulls and leads, C comes out and blocks Guyton, Green was sealed inside by the blocking TE; Woods fought the 1x1 TE down the LOS and forced the LT to double him to spring the RB around the corner, Owens ran Bodden off then blocked him upfield to keep him up at the sticks.
-- Woods did a terrific job extending the play and sucking up blockers, but his help never came. Guyton looked slow to read the toss and was effectively sealed inside by the C. Bodden was run off, then blocked upfield, though he made the tackle forcing Jackson oob after he got the first down. Sanders and Meriweather must have been very deep, because Meriweather never came on camera and Sanders arrived the same time Jackson ran into Bodden. Just a poor job by the pursuit folks after Woods bought them time. 11 yds.
-- Penalty, Off. Holding 1x1 TE, -10 yds. Woods, with a bit of help by an official, saved the day despite his teammate's slow response.

1st and 10 Buf 11: Buf 2-wide, 2 TE R
-- NE: 6-1 press-man
-- Buffalo tried to set up a screen L, but Green and Woods occupied both L-side blockers, and Wilfork got in on the QB so fast he was unable to get off a good throw to the RB.
-- Penalty, roughing the passer, Wilfork, 15 yds. Obviously this has already been discussed to death - horrible call, horrible rule application by the NFL.

1st and 10 Buf 26: Buf 2-wide, 2 TE R
-- NE: 6-1, Woods is out shaded inside the LWR with Bodden 7 yds deep behind him. I think the DBs went Cover-3 off the snap.
-- Woods works in showing blitz. Pass. 4-man rush, man under by the LBs. I don't think it was intentional, but this effectively turned into a screen, partly by the RB running a poor slide route, and partly because the blocking TE chipped Burgess, then pealed off underneath as a dump-off option and was next to the RB when he made the reception to provide escort. Warren beat the RG outside to pressure the QB into a dump-off. With the TE leading, and Lee Evans breaking off his route and getting back in time to block, Jackson was easily able to cross the Line to Gain before being tackled. Thomas and Sanders were both blocked out of the play by Jackson's escort. 15 yds.

1st and 10 Buf 41: Buf 2-wide, 2 TE L
-- NE: 6-1 over, CBs soft.
-- Pass. Green and Warren both split double-teams to collapse the pocket and force Edwards to rollout R. Edwards had good yardage if he'd run, but he threw a dart to his 1x1 TE who ran a drag with Woods man-to-man the entire way. The throw was behind the receiver - but catchable - and dropped. Incomplete.

2nd and 10: Buf 2-wide, 2 TE L
-- NE: 4-3, CBs soft. Thomas shifted inside to MLB with Guyton over the Center showing blitz and Woods on the LOS outside the TEs. Burgess was wide with Warren in a 5-tech over the RT - after the pressure Warren has gotten on this drive, this was a really nice pre-snap mind-phuck look from NE.
-- I'm not sure if the Pats forced extra communication from the Bills' OL or if it was just a "rookie" mistake, but the LT twitched his shoulder while turning his head inside as if to hear a line call and Green immediately stands up with he and Woods pointing to help the Line Judge. (It was another toss sweep with the LT pulling, so that could have been it too.) Even if there hadn't been a false start, there was a good chance of a holding penalty because the RG literally tackled Guyton to keep him out of the backfield - I like what NE did pre-snap to mess with Buffalo.
-- Penalty, False Start, -5 yds.

2nd and 15: Buf 2-wide, 2 TE L
-- NE: 4-3, CBs soft. Thomas shifted inside to MLB with Guyton over the Center showing blitz and Woods on the LOS outside the TEs. Burgess was wide with Warren in a 5-tech over the RT.
-- Edwards drops into a "pistol" with Jackson shifting R. On the snap, NE went to Cover-3, with Thomas man-under and Sanders in the L flat man on the 1x1 TE. 6-man rush. Burgess drew a double-team by the RB/RT, Wilfork and Guyton ran a twist stunt in the middle which collapsed the pocket. And Woods blitzed, coming free off the edge to hit Edwards as he released. Evans did a nice job coming back underneath the Cover-3 for the reception, but Wilhite wrapped him up right away. Meriweather should have drawn a late hit for his extracurricular activity. 12 yds.
-- A "pistol" is a formation used by Nevada with the QB in a very shallow shotgun, about where a 3-step drop would wind up, and the RB behind the QB - though in this case Jackson set up at the same depth to help with Burgess.

3rd and 3: Buf 3-wide, TE R, Pistol
-- NE: 4-3 under, press-man-free, LBs and Sanders showing blitz. L-R Burgess - Green - Wright - TBC; Thomas - Guyton; Wilhite - NB U/I - Bodden; Sanders - Meriweather
-- 4-man rush. Burgess got pressure off the edge, drawing the RG off Green's double-team to help, but not before flushing Edwards. There should have been holding on the RT against Burgess. Green was in Edward's face when he threw it away. Incomplete.
-- Jaws jabbering about blitz pressure, but there was no blitz, just good man coverage and good DL pressure from Burgess and Green.

4th and 3: Punt. Moorman 49 yds.
-- Welker let it go over his head for a touchback, but Moorman kicked a beauty with backspin that hit at the NE 2 and was downed at the 3.
12:51 3rd Qtr.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't let it take away from my interest in understanding what players are doing within the play to make it work, but you can't help noticing how this kind of thread stacks up against others on the forum.

I almost posted that exact same observation the other day, but figured I'd exceeded my quota of pole up your ass characterizations for the month...

I was in witness protection for a period and they graciously adopted me - I was deeply appreciative of the shoot on sight rules they applied to my underworld nemesis. I actually spend more time there now and commute back for the additional football discussion (now that the neighborhood watch is more proactive), it takes two sites to manage my NEP Football appetite.

LOL the period we can now almost refer to as the good old days since ye olde nemesis was left to spawn here long enough to pollute the next generation and attract a whole other audience in the process...I refer to them now as the server crashers...they're too busy hitting refersh between posting crack observations like OMG, WTF or <insert player/mediot name> SUCKS to read a thread where they might actually learn something.

 

[unoriginal]

I was able to take some time and complete a quick pass blocking analysis last night. One of the things I did chart was who was receiving substantial double-team help. No pics or play chart, just the demerits:

1st half:

		Sack	Knockdown	Pressure	Double
Light		1	0		4		2
Mankins		0	1		3		6
Koppen		0	1		0		14
Neal		0	1		2		9
Kaczur		0	1		2		1
Maroney		0	1		0	
Faulk		0	1		0

2nd half:

		Sack	Knockdown	Pressure	Double
Light		0	1		1		2
Mankins		0	0		4		5
Koppen		0	1		1		12
Neal		0	0		2		9
Kaczur		0	0		1		1

Whole game:

		Sack	Knockdown	Pressure	Double
Light		1	1		5		4
Mankins		0	1		7		11
Koppen		0	2		1		26
Neal		0	1		4		18
Kaczur		0	1		3		2
Maroney		0	1		0		
Faulk		0	1		0

Obviously if you add up the double team column, you'll get more double-teams than there were passing plays. (56: I included the 2-pt conversions) This is because each person participating in a lengthy double-team receives a tally.

The usual caveat applies: these are demerits, not play outcomes. I sometimes award multiple demerits to players on a play (i.e. Light: knockdown; Kaczur: pressure).

Faulk's knockdown demerit, in case you were wondering, came on a play where he rubbed Light off a twist by Kyle Williams.

 

[bucky]

I was able to take some time and complete a quick pass blocking analysis last night. One of the things I did chart was who was receiving substantial double-team help. No pics or play chart, just the demerits:

1st half:

		Sack	Knockdown	Pressure	Double
Light		1	0		4		2
Mankins		0	1		3		6
Koppen		0	1		0		14
Neal		0	1		2		9
Kaczur		0	1		2		1
Maroney		0	1		0	
Faulk		0	1		0

2nd half:

		Sack	Knockdown	Pressure	Double
Light		0	1		1		2
Mankins		0	0		4		5
Koppen		0	1		1		12
Neal		0	0		2		9
Kaczur		0	0		1		1

Whole game:

		Sack	Knockdown	Pressure	Double
Light		1	1		5		4
Mankins		0	1		7		11
Koppen		0	2		1		26
Neal		0	1		4		18
Kaczur		0	1		3		2
Maroney		0	1		0		
Faulk		0	1		0

Obviously if you add up the double team column, you'll get more double-teams than there were passing plays. (56: I included the 2-pt conversions) This is because each person participating in a lengthy double-team receives a tally.

The usual caveat applies: these are demerits, not play outcomes. I sometimes award multiple demerits to players on a play (i.e. Light: knockdown; Kaczur: pressure).

Faulk's knockdown demerit, in case you were wondering, came on a play where he rubbed Light off a twist by Kyle Williams.

Very nice. I did not thin that Mankins had a very good game and I think these numbers flush it out a little.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I was able to take some time and complete a quick pass blocking analysis last night. One of the things I did chart was who was receiving substantial double-team help. No pics or play chart, just the demerits:

Very nice, thank you. The way this looks, the only OL who could be said to have had a good "passing" game is Kaczur, though I suspect Koppen normally has this level of double-team participation.

I'd be interested to see the TEs and Vollmer added to this at some point.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I almost posted that exact same observation the other day, but figured I'd exceeded my quota of pole up your ass characterizations for the month...

You're still on quota? I figured they'd have you on salary to avoid the bonus points you'd collect.

LOL the period we can now almost refer to as the good old days since ye olde nemesis was left to spawn here long enough to pollute the next generation and attract a whole other audience in the process...I refer to them now as the server crashers...they're too busy hitting refersh between posting crack observations like OMG, WTF or <insert player/mediot name> SUCKS to read a thread where they might actually learn something.

In the long run, it's worked out for me.