2008 defensive statistics

[E Belichick Unum]

I got to thinking that I might have been unfair in my assessment of the secondary's preformance this past season so I decided to take a look at their overall statistical preformance. What jumped out at me, and I have bolded below, is how really poorly the secondary really did play. It was worse than I thought.

NFL Football Statistics and League Leaders - National Football League - ESPN

The Patriots finished 10th in the league in overall defense giving up 309 yards/game.

They finished 11th in passing defense giving up 201.4 yards/game.
They finished 16th in completion percentage at 60.8%
They finished 25th in yards per attempt at 7.3 YPA
They finished 31st in passing TD allowed at 27

They finished 15th in rushing defense at 1722 total yards and 107.6 ypg
They finished 4th in rushing TD allowed with 8

Their give away/take away was +1 the defense had 14 interceptions and 8 fumble recoveries.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Another interesting stat: in 2003, the Pats D finished #1 in passes defensed. In 2008, they finished 24th. I think that correlates with the lack of good cover guys and the lack of a pass rush.

 

[Clonamery]

I got to thinking that I might have been unfair in my assessment of the secondary's preformance this past season so I decided to take a look at their overall statistical preformance. What jumped out at me, and I have bolded below, is how really poorly the secondary really did play. It was worse than I thought.

NFL Football Statistics and League Leaders - National Football League - ESPN

The Patriots finished 10th in the league in overall defense giving up 309 yards/game.

They finished 11th in passing defense giving up 201.4 yards/game.
They finished 16th in completion percentage at 60.8%
They finished 25th in yards per attempt at 7.3 YPA
They finished 31st in passing TD allowed at 27

They finished 15th in rushing defense at 1722 total yards and 107.6 ypg
They finished 4th in rushing TD allowed with 8

Their give away/take away was +1 the defense had 14 interceptions and 8 fumble recoveries.

Can we blame it on Dom Capers?

 

[captadamnj]

Imagine what it might have looked like if not for the snow for the Arizona game!

 

[jmt57]

I didn't realize the Pats gave up the 2nd most (tied) passing plays of 40+ yards, with 12.

NFL Stats: by Team Category

(I prefer using a site other than espn, such as nfl.com )

Also interesting to note the Pats ranked in opponent's QB rating at 89.8 - and the Cardinals ranked 30th at 96.9!

 

[Synovia]

. What jumped out at me, and I have bolded below, is how really poorly the secondary really did play. It was worse than I thought.

They finished 25th in yards per attempt at 7.3 YPA
They finished 31st in passing TD allowed at 27
.

And thats all on the secondary?

The pass defense numbers, especially in the 3-4, are much more reliant on pressure than coverage. The secondary wasn't great, but it wasn't awful. The pass rush, on the other hand, was abysmal.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I didn't realize the Pats gave up the 2nd most (tied) passing plays of 40+ yards, with 12.

Having Deltha O'Neal allowed for us to prosper in categories like this.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

And thats all on the secondary?

The pass defense numbers, especially in the 3-4, are much more reliant on pressure than coverage. The secondary wasn't great, but it wasn't awful. The pass rush, on the other hand, was abysmal.

No, the secondary was awful. The d-line didn't apply enough pressure and the talent in the defensive backfield was less than ordinary. The D line did apply pressure, but it was inconsistent. In the end, the stats tell the story. Regardless of opinion, the stats place the blame directly on the secondary. For as often as this team was thrown on, being 24th in passes defended tells it all.

 

[Kontradiction]

While I wouldn't mind seeing Nhmandi here next year (I don't think it's going to happen), the pass rush needs to improve for the secondary statistics to follow suit. The most effective way of shutting down a passing game is a good pass rush which our defense was able to do pretty well with the exception of 2008.

I think when A.D. gets back next year and Vrabel gets healthy (plus, we might see Crable get some snaps as well), the pass rush should improve. And that's still not counting any possible linebacker that we draft.

 

[DarrylS]

And thats all on the secondary?

The pass defense numbers, especially in the 3-4, are much more reliant on pressure than coverage. The secondary wasn't great, but it wasn't awful. The pass rush, on the other hand, was abysmal.

When you have such a piss poor secondary, and brand new linebackers that are rushed into service and when Adalius, Rodney & Teddy go down and Ty Warren has a sports hernia the schemes of the d-line change significantly.. you cannot just rush the passer as much as you would like.. it is all interconnected, but it starts with the secondary. I suspect if the secondary becomes more reliable, then the pass rush will become much better.

What seemed to be a trend was our difficulty covering the tight ends.. not sure if it was a LB issue or a Safety issue.. but without regard this needs to get better.. I suspect it will as Mayo and Guyton mature.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

What seemed to be a trend was our difficulty covering the tight ends.. not sure if it was a LB issue or a Safety issue.. but without regard this needs to get better.. I suspect it will as Mayo and Guyton mature.

I still wonder what would have happened with the TE coverage, and pass rush, if Tank hadnt gotten injured. Obviously one person doesnt fix all the problems, but BB was clearly experimenting with having a second SS playing closer to the line, and one deep. Then the regular season started, and as usual, players started to drop like flies. I'll be curious to see if BB tries it again this coming preseason. Big Nickel 2.0

 

[Synovia]

Regardless of opinion, the stats place the blame directly on the secondary.

You mean those same stats that have us the least sacks in years?


That places the blame directly on the line. I don't remember the Patriots getting killed by passing on normal downs. What I remember is 3rd and long, and the qb having 25 seconds to throw the ball.



Look at denver. They've got 2 elite CBs and can't defend the pass. Asante wouldn't have helped.

 

[Synovia]

I suspect if the secondary becomes more reliable, then the pass rush will become much better.

Thats not the way it works. See denver, or Washington. You can have an elite secondary, and your passrush will still suck, and your pass defense will still suck.


Look at the teams with great pass defenses Pittsburgh, Baltimore, NYG last year. What do they all do extremely well? Put pressure on the QB. All of them have decent secondaries, but only one great player on each (NYG have none).


If having a reliable secondary improved the pass rush, denver would have the best pass rush in football.

 

[BradyManny]

I'd love to see metrics before AD went down. It all went down hill when he got injured, even with Woods playing well. The defense just couldn't give as many looks without him.

 

[redsox33]

Thats not the way it works. See denver, or Washington. You can have an elite secondary, and your passrush will still suck, and your pass defense will still suck.


Look at the teams with great pass defenses Pittsburgh, Baltimore, NYG last year. What do they all do extremely well? Put pressure on the QB. All of them have decent secondaries, but only one great player on each (NYG have none).


If having a reliable secondary improved the pass rush, denver would have the best pass rush in football.

Those teams also don't drop 2 or 3 of their 4 LB's into coverage because their secondary is more reliable.

 

[DaBruinz]

I got to thinking that I might have been unfair in my assessment of the secondary's preformance this past season so I decided to take a look at their overall statistical preformance. What jumped out at me, and I have bolded below, is how really poorly the secondary really did play. It was worse than I thought.

NFL Football Statistics and League Leaders - National Football League - ESPN

The Patriots finished 10th in the league in overall defense giving up 309 yards/game.

They finished 11th in passing defense giving up 201.4 yards/game.
They finished 16th in completion percentage at 60.8%
They finished 25th in yards per attempt at 7.3 YPA
They finished 31st in passing TD allowed at 27

They finished 15th in rushing defense at 1722 total yards and 107.6 ypg
They finished 4th in rushing TD allowed with 8

Their give away/take away was +1 the defense had 14 interceptions and 8 fumble recoveries.

Its a pretty bad assumption on your part to assume that this was strictly on the secondary. Passing yards allowed is a reflection of the entire defense, not just the secondary. It shows a lack of a pass rush as well as not being able to cover TEs and RBs. All of which is known and why people are talking about adding to the LB corp. The difference is primarily whether its an OLB or ILB (or both) that is needed.

They also need safeties because only Meriweather and Spann are under contract currently.

 

[DaBruinz]

Another interesting stat: in 2003, the Pats D finished #1 in passes defensed. In 2008, they finished 24th. I think that correlates with the lack of good cover guys and the lack of a pass rush.

And it totally disregards the change in the rules since then.

 

[DaBruinz]

When you have such a piss poor secondary, and brand new linebackers that are rushed into service and when Adalius, Rodney & Teddy go down and Ty Warren has a sports hernia the schemes of the d-line change significantly.. you cannot just rush the passer as much as you would like.. it is all interconnected, but it starts with the secondary. I suspect if the secondary becomes more reliable, then the pass rush will become much better.

What seemed to be a trend was our difficulty covering the tight ends.. not sure if it was a LB issue or a Safety issue.. but without regard this needs to get better.. I suspect it will as Mayo and Guyton mature.

Great points. I'd also like to add that Mayo and Guyton were limited in what they were asked to do.

Now, I'd like to say that you have your conclusion backwards. Its not that when the secondary becomes better that the Pass rush becomes better, its the other way around. When the Pass rush becomes better, the secondary becomes better.

I've mentioned this several times. Back in 2003 and 2004, when the Patriots had their dominating defenses, they had a few things. One of which was a competent NT. The other was 4 LBs who could rush the QB. This allowed the Patriots to bring pressure from many different angles and allowed them to show the many different sets. Then, it didn't matter who they had in the secondary. And that was proven in 2004, when they had Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, and Randall Gay as starters in the SB.

The key to an effective pass rush in the Pats 2 Gap system is having 3-4 LBs who can rush the passer. 2 OLBS and at least one of the ILBs. That way the opposition doesn't know where the pressure is coming from and its nearly impossible for them to protect the QB from being pressured. And being pressured (not necessarily sacks) is what is important.

 

[DaBruinz]

Those teams also don't drop 2 or 3 of their 4 LB's into coverage because their secondary is more reliable.

The Pats dropping 2 or 3 LBs into coverage has nothing to do with how strong or weak their secondary is. It has to do with the Zone defense that they play.

 

[Synovia]

. Passing yards allowed is a reflection of the entire defense, not just the secondary.

Its not even that DaBruinz, passing yards allowed is a reflection of the entire team. Winning teams give up more passing yards than losing teams: Why? Because teams throw more often on them. If you're down by 20 points, the other team is running the ball on you.

People who judge defenses by total yards allowed, total points, without taking into account field position, number of drives, etc, show a lack of understanding in the fluidity of football.

This isn't baseball where everyone gets the same number of chances. The colts defense, every year faces about 20 less drives than any other team, because their offense controls the ball so well, and almost never 3-and-outs. You don't think that affects their total yards allowed?