2007 Draft Challenge

[jsull87]

For the record i am going to say i love this thread and think it shows alot of people how hard it actually is to draft and why they shouldn't be to quick to critisise.

But for the sake of 20/20 hind sight and a bit of fun i will give it a go with a trade or 2 using the espn draft values.

Trades 24 - 32 and 96
32 - 46 and 78
78 and 96 for 59
(All of those trades the patriots received less points than their pick)

End up with 46 and 59 for 24

So all up
46. OLB Lamar Woodley (Over Osca lua)
59. C Ryan Kalil (Over Mike Elgin)
127. WR Steve Breaston (over WR Chad Jackson)
171. ILB Brandon Siler (over DL Rashad Moore)
180. S Michael Johnson (over S Brandon Merriweather)
202. RB Ahmad Bradshaw (over RB Kyle Eckels)
208. RB Pierre Thomas (Over RB Quadtrine Hill)

So i think that gave us a OLB rotation including a young Woodley. Good young C. A young wide out to step in when stallworth and gaffney leave. Backup ILB and S (who started for the Giants) and what would turn out to be a pretty good group of running backs.

 

[Kontradiction]

You'd take a 6'0, Tampa 2 OLB for the Pats 3-4?

Yeah. Why not? Just plug him right in. He'll work!

:bricks:

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Trades 24 - 32 and 96
32 - 46 and 78
78 and 96 for 59
(.

Hmm.... adding trades is a stretch as it assumes willing partners.

Your trades are just nonsense....

The 32nd pick was owned by Indy (who never trades up) the 96th pick was a non-tradeable compensatory pick by SD. (you might have meant the 95th)

the 46th pick belonged to the Steelers the 78th to Greenbay. (you might have ment the 77th, but still the Steelers aren't exactly a common trading partner for the Pats)

Its not just that drafting is hard....but also the 2007 draft didn't have much depth once you got to NE's second pick at 127 and NE didn't exactly have many holes going into the draft.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

For the record i am going to say i love this thread and think it shows alot of people how hard it actually is to draft and why they shouldn't be to quick to critisise.

But for the sake of 20/20 hind sight and a bit of fun i will give it a go with a trade or 2 using the espn draft values.

Trades 24 - 32 and 96
32 - 46 and 78
78 and 96 for 59
(All of those trades the patriots received less points than their pick)

End up with 46 and 59 for 24

So all up
46. OLB Lamar Woodley (Over Osca lua)
59. C Ryan Kalil (Over Mike Elgin)
127. WR Steve Breaston (over WR Chad Jackson)
171. ILB Brandon Siler (over DL Rashad Moore)
180. S Michael Johnson (over S Brandon Merriweather)
202. RB Ahmad Bradshaw (over RB Kyle Eckels)
208. RB Pierre Thomas (Over RB Quadtrine Hill)

So i think that gave us a OLB rotation including a young Woodley. Good young C. A young wide out to step in when stallworth and gaffney leave. Backup ILB and S (who started for the Giants) and what would turn out to be a pretty good group of running backs.

No cheating, you have to cut players who actually made the roster out of Camp.

 

[jsull87]

Hmm.... adding trades is a stretch as it assumes willing partners.

Your trades are just nonsense....

The 32nd pick was owned by Indy (who never trades up) the 96th pick was a non-tradeable compensatory pick by SD. (you might have meant the 95th)

the 46th pick belonged to the Steelers the 78th to Greenbay. (you might have ment the 77th, but still the Steelers aren't exactly a common trading partner for the Pats)

Its not just that drafting is hard....but also the 2007 draft didn't have much depth once you got to NE's second pick at 127 and NE didn't exactly have many holes going into the draft.

I know it's a mock draft i said it was just for fun i understand that in reality they are hard to do. Yeah sorry i think i was off with one or two of the later round picks i didn't know weather they were picking in the same spot or not. i was just doing it as a drafting exercise for a 20/20 hind sight what i would have tried to make happen knowing who was out there today

 

[jsull87]

No cheating, you have to cut players who actually made the roster out of Camp.

Ok is this a bit better?

46. OLB Lamar Woodley (Over Osca lua/last Lb on roster)
59. C Ryan Kalil (Over Billy Yates/Last C/G on roster)
127. WR Steve Breaston (over WR Chad Jackson)
171. ILB Brandon Siler (over DL Rashad Moore)
180. S Michael Johnson (over S Brandon Merriweather)
202. RB Ahmad Bradshaw (over RB Kyle Eckels)
208. RB Pierre Thomas (Over RB Sammy Morris maybe but i think you would make room for him with either Morris or Evans)

Also to TheGodInAGreyHoodie the colts traded up that very draft to get Tony Ugoh at 42 so it isn't unbelievable they would do the same with our pick at 24 if they liked Grubbs or Meachem who was selected at 27 or something like that.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

I know it's a mock draft i said it was just for fun i understand that in reality they are hard to do. Yeah sorry i think i was off with one or two of the later round picks i didn't know weather they were picking in the same spot or not. i was just doing it as a drafting exercise for a 20/20 hind sight what i would have tried to make happen knowing who was out there today

Its all good.

You and everyone else who took the time to think about the challenge got my point. Which is: it is pretty easy to say "BB sucks at drafting just look at 2007, 8 out of 9 picks are no longer on the team" but when you look at it much closer you realize that there weren't many players at the 127th spot and beyond that had any realistic shot of ever making the team, no matter who BB drafted.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Ok is this a bit better?

46. OLB Lamar Woodley (Over Osca lua/last Lb on roster)
59. C Ryan Kalil (Over Billy Yates/Last C/G on roster)
127. WR Steve Breaston (over WR Chad Jackson)
171. ILB Brandon Siler (over DL Rashad Moore)
180. S Michael Johnson (over S Brandon Merriweather)
202. RB Ahmad Bradshaw (over RB Kyle Eckels)
208. RB Pierre Thomas (Over RB Sammy Morris maybe but i think you would make room for him with either Morris or Evans)

Also to TheGodInAGreyHoodie the colts traded up that very draft to get Tony Ugoh at 42 so it isn't unbelievable they would do the same with our pick at 24 if they liked Grubbs or Meachem who was selected at 27 or something like that.

Well who is your last LB?

 

[patriotscpfc]

Yeah. Why not? Just plug him right in. He'll work!

:bricks:

I was doing it for the benefit of this pointless game which just seems to blow more smoke up Belichick's backside, you jackass.

Yeah, we get it the 2007 draft sucked. I'm guessing the 2008 draft sucked as well since Wheatley blows, Crable sucks, O'Connell is gone, Wilhite and Slater suck (in most people's opinions, not mine) and Ruud is gone. Leaving us with Mayo as the only useful pick.

 

[BritPat]

I was doing it for the benefit of this pointless game which just seems to blow more smoke up Belichick's backside, you jackass.

Easy dude.

The point made was a good one. Why would the Pats pick a Tampa 2 OLB? His size and skills just aren't a fit for the scheme and system - and that's what good Drafting is all about.

Whilst Session is a good player, he's a good player in a system that suits him.

Yeah, we get it the 2007 draft sucked. I'm guessing the 2008 draft sucked as well since Wheatley blows, Crable sucks, O'Connell is gone, Wilhite and Slater suck (in most people's opinions, not mine) and Ruud is gone. Leaving us with Mayo as the only useful pick.

That's not really the point of the thread, in fact it's the opposite.

 

[patriotscpfc]

I mean the draft overall, not the picks.

 

[Ring 6]

Over anyone else drafted after him, yeah.

I'd find a spot. Could he slide inside?

He couldnt play in our system

 

[RayClay]

Other then Breaston I don't see where these moves make the Pats any more competitive.

I'm not convinced Staley beats out Kaczur, or would have done any better than O'C in the few starts he had as a rookie.
Siler is playing okay in SD, but there are enough differences between the two defenses that his fit in NE isn't a lock.
Thigpen freelanced his way to some competitive games under Herm Edwards, but unless you see him as a WR I'm not encouraged for him.
Bradshaw hasn't let his college indiscretions follow him into the NFL, so he might indeed be an improvement - but I could only see that in 20/20 vision.
Looking at the stats between Meriweather and Bullitt - I still use that 24 on Meriweather.

Of course it's easy to say no one in the world could have made it, not knowing how they might have gained weight, done on special teams etc.

Not too far fetched to think a guy starting for the Colts in his second year could have taken the role of undersized LB (?) Eric Alexander, maybe the old Don Davis role. Maybe bulked up and slid inside. I don't know his skills.

I really don't know for sure. We do know how our picks turned out, so it's not out of the realm of possibility at least one player might have contributed.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

I really don't know for sure. We do know how our picks turned out, so it's not out of the realm of possibility at least one player might have contributed.

It is not out of the realm of possiblities that had the Patriots drafted differently we might have gotten a second player from the 2007 draft that might be making some contribution on special teams or as a back up in rotation.

That is far different than the claim of some that BB totally screwed up the draft and that we should have gotten 9 pro-bowlers because we had nine picks, as some seem to suggest.

 

[RayClay]

It is not out of the realm of possiblities that had the Patriots drafted differently we might have gotten a second player from the 2007 draft that might be making some contribution on special teams or as a back up in rotation.

That is far different than the claim of some that BB totally screwed up the draft and that we should have gotten 9 pro-bowlers because we had nine picks, as some seem to suggest.

Of course if we eliminate all players that "don't fit" with low round picks, why did we pick Kareem Brown? At 295, he's not a fit as a starter at 3-4 lineman, so he's a fill in there and not a swing OLB either. He's been tried at TE and is currently a 260 pound 4-3 DT/DE.

Pryor is a great example of drafting a 4-3 DL who actually has ability to play some 3-4. Great low pick IMO.

Hard to say he "fit the system" more like we took a shot. I'd just like the to have taken a shot at more LBs due to need at the position.

Of course we've managed to end up with just about all of our linebackers one dimensional or playing out of position now, which is quite a feat without actually drafting mismatched guys much.

That is far different than the claim of some that BB totally screwed up the draft and that we should have gotten 9 pro-bowlers because we had nine picks, as some seem to suggest.

Well you just go find some people that think that and get back to me. To me, there's two ways to draft low, upside, meaning you might have to carry an eager guy on teams til he finds a spot, or need.

In that draft, we went for some OL depth, which is great and did take a shot at some LBs, which I'm also fine with. They might have tried some high upside players, but maybe they didn't see it. Pretty happy with the Pryors and Edelmans recently and hope they continue that.

 

[captain stone]

This challenge goes out to all those who are critical of BB's talent evaluation skills. To anyone who likes to point out that 8 out of 9 players drafted in 2007 are no longer on the team.

I challenge you to redo the 2007 draft.

You armed with 20/20 hindsight not available to BB at the time must do the following for each of BB's misses.

1) Name the player that you would have drafted instead;

2) name the player from the 2007 roster you would have cut;

and

3) explain your choice.

Note you can not Adrian Peterson for Clint Oldenburg. You can only substitute players not yet drafted. You could subsitute Jacob Bender (selecteed #177) for Kareem Brown (#127) but not for Justin Rogers (#180)

Here are the players you need to find replacements for:

Stomper Meriweather
Kareem Brown 127
Clint Oldenburg 171
Justin Rogers 180
Mike Richardson 202
Justise Hairston 208
Corey Hilliard 208
Oscar Lua 211
Mike Elgin 247

Good luck! I bet you can't go 8 for 8.

No, I won't go 8 for 8, but I'll do much, much better than the Emperor did.

I haven't read any of the other posts, so my picks haven't been influenced. Besides, I've kept the same list of preferred picks for almost 3 years anyway.

A couple of my picks are direct descendents of what Bill should've done in the 2006 draft, as I'll explain as I go, beginning with the very first pick:

1/24
The Emperor William - Stomper
The Captain - RG/RT Justin Blalock or ILB David Harris
On offense, I liked Blalock's ability to play both Guards & RT, and his character & intelligence were superlative. We could've used him when Neal went down - again - in the SB. We also wouldn't be having conversations about his replacement right now, either. Blalock is the starting LG for Atlanta.
On defense, I was persuaded on the Draft Board that Harris would be a better fit at ILB than the higher-rated Poz; had Bill drafted potential DE/OLB convert Mark Anderson with the 5th-rounder used in 2006 on the ill-fitting, lead-footed Ryan O'C, the need to draft a DE/OLB convert like Anthony Spencer or LaMarr Woodley would've been mitigated.
Why not Stomper? Not only was his character undraftable, but he wasn't even the best damn Safety available - that would've been Eric Weddle. Besides, Bill should've used any one of his THREE 6th-round picks in 2006 on FS Antoine Bethea; there would have been therefore no need to draft a FS in the 1st round. And I haven't even mentioned our "Pro-Bowl"(snicker) FS's terrible tackling.

4/127
TEW - Kareem Brown
TC - CB Tarell Brown
Bill chose the wrong Brown. The lazy, under-achieving KBrown was way too slow for DE, yet not stout enough for NT. TBrown was a first-day-caliber CB, and the best available; a broken foot & a wacky weed/firearm arrest dropped his stock. Today, he's in the CB rotation - incl. 4 starts & 2 INTs - for the 49ers.

5/171
TEW - Clint Oldenburg
TC - OT Adam Koets
Bill chose the wrong OT. Not that Koets is starting - or will ever start - for the NJG, but he was the best avail. LT, and at least there was a body of work, and more with which to work, than the completely unknown & unregarded UDFA-talent OBurg Part I. Ohio State's Doug Datish also would've been a much more logical choice because of his versatility at Center, Guard & even LT.

6/180
TEW - Justin Rogers
TC - S John Wendling
Another completely unknown pick who could've been avail. as a UDFA. Many of us on the Draft Board liked Wendling's athleticism, and felt that at the very least he would become an excellent STer while he was learning either the FS or (preferably) the SS position. He was surprisingly released this week by the Bills; I wish that somebody in Foxborough would awaken Bill and convince him to sign Wendling as Effin Alexander's replacement.

6/202
TEW - Mike Richardson
TC - DE(OLB) Jacob Ford
Bill decided to give Charlie another 6th-round solid (see Stevenson, Dan in 2006) by choosing a mediocre CB on a terrible ND defense. And he wasn't even the best ND DB available - that would've been Safety Chinedum Ndukwe. Ford, OTOH, was the best Pass-Rusher avail. and could just as easily have gone at the spot used to select Justin Rogers. Ford has recorded 12.5 sacks in his 2 years with the Titans (season-long IR in '07).

6/208
TEW - Justise Hairston
TC - RB/FB Jason Snelling
Bill chose the wrong RB. And boy, were there a lot of RB still available, too: DeShawn Wynn, Ahmad Bradshaw, Ken Darby, Darius Walker, Selvin Young and SB winner Pierre Thomas. Instead, Bill decides to give Pioli's alma mater a solid by choosing another UDFA talent (noticing a trend here?). Because the faster LaMa had been drafted the previous year, I wanted Bill to pick a bigger, stronger RB preferably with FB capabilities. Wynn & Bradshaw had too many multiple character issues. Snelling, OTOH, had superior strength of character & intelligence, and experience at FB. He filled in admirably this season for the Falcons when Michael Turner was injured, incl. averaging 2 catches /game.

6/209
TEW - Corey Hilliard
TC - TE Ben Patrick
Another pick wasted by Bill on an ill-fitting OLman. Hilliard was not athletic enough for LT, not stout enough for Guard, and not strong/athletic/nasty enough for RT. Patrick, OTOH, was a first-day-caliber talent who inexplicably fell to the 7th round. He would've helped mitigate the loss of Dan Graham while allowing David Thomas to heal correctly; instead, Bill signed the washed-up Kyle Brady & rushed Thomas off pre-season PUP. Patrick, meanwhile, has started 13 games in his 3 seasons with Arizona, incl. a TD catch in the SB. Imagine a TE trio of Watson, Thomas & Patrick for the last 3 years; I could've lived with that.

7/211
TEW - Oscar Lua
TC - ILB Brandon Siler
Bill chose the wrong ILB. Lua was a small, unremarkable, injury-prone UDFA talent who was a backup on his college team as a senior. Siler, OTOH, was 1st-team All-SEC as a junior and a consensus first-day talent who fell to the 7th round because of a terrible Combine performance. Still, why not take a chance with the 211th pick on a highly-rated 21-yo with proven success in college football's best conference? Lua is now out of football, while Siler is a ST leader and also started 7 games this year for SD, incl. 2 sacks & 1 INT. I'd rather have Siler next to Mayo than Guyton.

7/247
TEW - Mike Elgin
TC - DT/DE Mike DeVito
Bill ends this abomination of a draft by choosing the wrong Mike, who wasn't even the best avail. OLman on his own team named Mike (that would've been Mike Jones). I wouldn't even have used this pick on OBurg Part I, whom Bill took 76 effin picks earlier. Instead, I would've used it on the DL (one of the positions not drafted in my version) - not on Kareem Brown, even if here were still available, but on UMaine's (and MA native) Mike DeVito, who had the size, speed, strength & motor to play 3-4 DE. It would've been nice to have both DeVito & Mike Wright to mitigate the loss of $eymour, the injuries to Ty Warren and the ineffectiveness of Jarvis Green.

Regarding the 9 players my choices would've replaced, I nominate:
Effin Alexander
Rashad Baker
Kyle Brady
Chad Brown
Larry Izzo
Eddie Jackson
Corey Mays
Stomper Meriweather (Blalock or Harris drafted instead) replaced by Bethea
Ryan O'C (Mark Anderson drafted instead)
Marcellus Rivers
Antwain Spann
Santonio Thomas
Pierre Woods
Billy Yates

Class is dismissed...and You're Welcome.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

It is not out of the realm of possiblities that had the Patriots drafted differently we might have gotten a second player from the 2007 draft that might be making some contribution on special teams or as a back up in rotation.

That is far different than the claim of some that BB totally screwed up the draft and that we should have gotten 9 pro-bowlers because we had nine picks, as some seem to suggest.

Except for the fact that nobody said that. You asked others to list players that could have been taken instead of the players the Pats chose and they did. While the players who could have been taken are not superstars they are productive NFL players, something the players the Pats took are not. It actually helped disprove your original point. So keep on patting yourself on the back for acknowledging that the Pats made 8 lousy picks in a lousy draft. Not only that let's give the Pats credit for having the balls to make such bad picks.

 

[emoney_33]

Except for the fact that nobody said that. You asked others to list players that could have been taken instead of the players the Pats chose and they did. While the players who could have been taken were not superstars they are productive NFL players, something the players the Pats took are not. It actually helped disprove your original point. So keep on patting yourself on the back for acknowledging that the Pats made 8 lousy picks in a lousy draft. Not only that lets' give the Pats credit for having the balls to make such bad picks.

Actually everyone was supposed to not only replace the picks but list their rosters and who they were replacing/dropping. (All with 20/20 hindsight too)

Some people have also apparently decided that dropping all of the best special teams players in favor of rookies would have made us a better team.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Actually everyone was supposed to not only replace the picks but list their rosters and who they were replacing/dropping. (All with 20/20 hindsight too)

Some people have also apparently decided that dropping all of the best special teams players in favor of rookies would have made us a better team.

1. You are acting like it's a homework assingment I didn't complete.

2. People need to realize that there is not room for a dozen pure special teamers on an NFL roster. It's very rare that a player can make a living solely on special teams (Sean Morey, Larry Izzo). You're making the assumption that the rookies would not play on ST? Or that they wouldn't or couldn't match the contributions of:

Chad Brown
Marcellus Rivers
Chad Jackson
Mel Mitchell
Rashad Baker
Willie Andrews
Eddie Jackson
Santonio Thomas
Corey Mays
Kyle Eckel
Billy Yates
Ray Ventrone
Antwain Spann
Stephen Spach

 

[emoney_33]

1. You are acting like it's a homework assingment I didn't complete.

2. People need to realize that there is not room for a dozen pure special teamers on an NFL roster. It's very rare that a player can make a living solely on special teams (Sean Morey, Larry Izzo). You're making the assumption that the rookies would not play on ST? Or that they wouldn't or couldn't match the contributions of:

Chad Brown
Marcellus Rivers
Chad Jackson
Mel Mitchell
Rashad Baker
Willie Andrews
Eddie Jackson
Santonio Thomas
Corey Mays
Kyle Eckel
Billy Yates
Ray Ventrone
Antwain Spann
Stephen Spach

There are 45 active players on game day, let's remove the kickers and backup QB. How many of the 42 should be getting significant snaps aside from the 22 starters on offense and defense in your opinion?