20 Points Is Sometimes Just Not Enough

[mb6592]

Once again the defense can't hold the opposing team in a key moment. Just keeping them to a field goal would have given Brady and the O a realistic shot at winning it.

The injuries suck but unless the D forces a turnover they can't stop the opposition on downs in crunch time. The lack of even JAG level depth at corner and safety is killing us. Anytime Tavon Wilson, Nate Ebner, and Marquice Cole see the field you have to hold your breath.

This wasn't, at the beigniing of the season and through the first few games, the same old Pats defense of late. The defense was playing damn good. The defense is now is decimated. The Offense has to step up (Broncos like 30-40 points a game) or bye, bye season. Brady had a great game, but Brady/Belichick/McDaniels should have known they HAD to get seven there instead of three. Yesterday (and going forward), the offense laying the game at the feet of the defense is recipe for disaster (as we witnessed yesterday and at least 10 times in the past several years).

 

[supafly]

This wasn't, at the beigniing of the season and through the first few games, the same old Pats defense of late. The defense was playing damn good. The defense is now is decimated. The Offense has to step up (Broncos like 30-40 points a game) or bye, bye season. Brady had a great game, but Brady/Belichick/McDaniels should have known they HAD to get seven there instead of three. Yesterday (and going forward), the offense laying the game at the feet of the defense is recipe for disaster (as we witnessed yesterday and at least 10 times in the past several years).

I agree entirely. Unfortunately it did not work out, and the way the scheduling was set up it makes for a very difficult challenge from DEN on a shortened week where the odds are against us.

It is really of note though, that time and time again we see the opposition march down the field at will to win the game on the very last drive. The only shot we have is putting up some serious points as you mentioned. The defense is a weakness that needs some masking, even moreso that in previous years--and the injuries just continue to pile up as we speak.

 

[Brady6]

We have a solid defense, a decent running game and awesome special teams.

However, that is just not enough. Our offense should be one of the best at this point. Everyone is back except Vollmer (and Cannon is doing fine). This offense should understand that they need to score more, and especially do better in the red zone.

We should recognize that we played the top defense in the NFL, but we still had lots of scoring opportunities. The offense played very well between the 20's.

Our defense allowed 24. I would expect that this may be the norm going forward, given the injuries.

Essentially you just have to look at the fact Carolina average 23.8 PPG this season to know that us scoring 20 would not suffice. Generally speaking 20 points would only be enough to beat 7 of the 32 teams in the NFL so it is not surprising to me that it was not enough to win, in fact since Brady returned in 2009 the team is 3-13 in games that that they score 20 points or less.

 

[mgteich]

And yet, for many here, it is the fault of the defense because they didn't hold CAR to over a FG below its season average with many, many key players out.

We can argue whether we should plan for a defense to hold the opponents to 17 or less and try to win with 20. IMHO, that is not the way Brady plays. In any case, this strategy is not an option for the rest of the year, with what's left of our defense.

Some think that this offense is one of our very best. Well, it's time that they start acting like that or we will not go far.

Essentially you just have to look at the fact Carolina average 23.8 PPG this season to know that us scoring 20 would not suffice. Generally speaking 20 points would only be enough to beat 7 of the 32 teams in the NFL so it is not surprising to me that it was not enough to win, in fact since Brady returned in 2009 the team is 3-13 in games that that they score 20 points or less.

 

[Ring 6]

This wasn't, at the beigniing of the season and through the first few games, the same old Pats defense of late. The defense was playing damn good. The defense is now is decimated. The Offense has to step up (Broncos like 30-40 points a game) or bye, bye season. Brady had a great game, but Brady/Belichick/McDaniels should have known they HAD to get seven there instead of three. Yesterday (and going forward), the offense laying the game at the feet of the defense is recipe for disaster (as we witnessed yesterday and at least 10 times in the past several years).

You sound like scoring a TD is just a matter of being smart enough to.
You sound like losing 10 times in SEVERAL years is a major problem. You are describing something that happens to every single team, and to this one less than any other, yet you couch your argument like it happens to this one on a regular basis and never to any one else.
Its like saying the 95% free throw shooter blows a critical free throw twice a year, and it kills us without realizing he makes it 38 times a year

 

[Ring 6]

And yet, for many here, it is the fault of the defense because they didn't hold CAR to over a FG below its season average with many, many key players out.

We can argue whether we should plan for a defense to hold the opponents to 17 or less and try to win with 20. IMHO, that is not the way Brady plays. In any case, this strategy is not an option for the rest of the year, with what's left of our defense.

Some think that this offense is one of our very best. Well, it's time that they start acting like that or we will not go far.

You can't blame the offense for only get 6 possessions in 59 minutes.
You can't really say it isn't good offense to score 20 in those 6 possessions without benefit of a turnover.
In the second half, the offense took the kickoff and drove 80 yards in 8 plays and 4:23 of clock.
The Panthers turned around and had an 8+ minute TD drive.

The offense then went 80 yards in 9 plays and 4:53 for a TD.

The D made a stop, and the offense drove 8 plays and 4 1/2 minutes to a go ahead FG.

The Panthers then took 5 1/2 minutes off the clock on a 13 play 83 yard TD drive.

Say what you want about a 1 minute drive needing 7, but to call not getting it a failure, especially given the egregious call, is shaky.

Are we calling the offense a failure because 3 drives ended in 2 TDs and a FG?
That was after having only 3 first half drives.
Those drives entailed 32 plays 149 yards and 16 minutes off the clock.

All together:
7 drives
69 plays
402 yards
20 points
30:46 top
28 first downs

Average drive
10 plays
58 yards
3 points
4:22 TOP
4 1st downs

I don't know how you can possibly not consider that good offense.

Based upon an average of 13 drives a game, that is 39 points (not counting the screwing on the last drive) 764 yards, 52 first downs.

The problem is, as gaudy as that looks, our defense allowed the other team to do virtually the exact same thing, except they got to finish their last drive and not have the clock and refs prevent it.

 

[Ring 6]

Essentially you just have to look at the fact Carolina average 23.8 PPG this season to know that us scoring 20 would not suffice. Generally speaking 20 points would only be enough to beat 7 of the 32 teams in the NFL so it is not surprising to me that it was not enough to win, in fact since Brady returned in 2009 the team is 3-13 in games that that they score 20 points or less.

How many times have they controlled the clock to the tune of 4 1/2 minutes per drive, and held the other team to only 7 possessions (one of which was a kneel down at half) and allow more than 20?

Think about this. The offense did what many here want them to do, control the clock and keep the defense off the field.
The defense had 6 opportunities to play and allowed 3 TDs and a FG.
Do you seriously think a team has much of a chance of winning when it allows TDs on half of the drives against in and a FG on another 17%? While forcing zero turnovers and 2 punts?

The highest scoring team in NFL history, the 2007 Patriots did not score as many points per drive.

 

[mb6592]

You sound like scoring a TD is just a matter of being smart enough to.

I'm well aware of the difficulty in scoring touchdowns once in the red zone. However, for 2012, the NFL avg was over 50% and the Patriots were 67.5%. This year the NFL avg again is 55%. The point, when the defense needed the bailout. Needed the offense to carry the load at the critical point in the game, the offense underperformed. Put simply - they needed to get 7!

You sound like losing 10 times in SEVERAL years is a major problem.

The point was not to discuss the merits of this stat (which I don't even know is accurrate). The point is Monday (and in recent history) when the offense (a top 3 offense, at least in recent years) needed to bailout the (let's be kind and say avg at best) defense it didn't get it done. This offense must carry the load at the critical point in the game and it underperformed - again. The number of times is irrelevant, enough to leave a lasting impression.

 

[mb6592]

yet you couch your argument like it happens to this one on a regular basis and never to any one else. Its like saying the 95% free throw shooter blows a critical free throw twice a year, and it kills us without realizing he makes it 38 times a year

Maybe I'm wrong Andy, but my recollection doesn't jive with this. Late game offensive heroics (Saints game aside) haven't been the Patriots or Bradys forte the past several years (especially in big games). I seem to recall many instances where the offense has played well or OK, but left it to the defense to have to make a stop at the end of the game. That might be the NFL norm - it shouldn't be the norm for a top (esp top 2 or 3) offense. It really can't be going forward or we're doomed. This defense is decimated and to expect it to hold late in the game is a fool's goal.

 

[AzorianPats]

The offense set themselves up by playing right into the Panther's defense and what they like to do. Slowing the game down and grinding it out was exactly what the Panthers front 7 is all about.

Our offense is all about spreading the ball, playing up tempo, and having Brady make decisions on which matchup is best and keeping defenses off balances.

We had all of our receivers healthy and the Panthers weakness was their secondary.

Amendola was open all night when he was in. Dobson was getting separation. Vereen was a match up nightmare.

Inexplicable game plan by McD. Most infuriating of all was using Gronk strictly as a blocker.

I actually thought it was one of McDaniels BEST game plans. We punted ONCE the whole game, and drove down at will. Game was lost by the defense not being able to get off the field.

 

[Brady6]

How many times have they controlled the clock to the tune of 4 1/2 minutes per drive, and held the other team to only 7 possessions (one of which was a kneel down at half) and allow more than 20?

Think about this. The offense did what many here want them to do, control the clock and keep the defense off the field.
The defense had 6 opportunities to play and allowed 3 TDs and a FG.
Do you seriously think a team has much of a chance of winning when it allows TDs on half of the drives against in and a FG on another 17%? While forcing zero turnovers and 2 punts?

The highest scoring team in NFL history, the 2007 Patriots did not score as many points per drive.

I was not really blaming the offense necessarily I was just examining when if ever 20 points would be enough to win a football game.

 

[UK_Pat37]

This is true but, sometimes, you come across very good defences who are able to prevent you from scoring 30+ a game. You aren't going to do that and blow people out every game so sometimes you do ride your luck where turnovers and things like poor officiating decisions can determine the outcome.

We moved the ball well a fair bit, but the fumble really killed us.

 

[mb6592]

This writer's choice as the turning point in the game was in the fourth quarter with 6:42 left in the game and the score tied at 17. The Patriots had third and one at the Panther 8-yard line. LeGarrette Blount had been gouging the Panther defense with short, strong runs. Needing one yard for a first down and goal, the situation screamed for another short run, either by Blount or maybe a sneak by Brady. Instead, the Patriots called for a pass. Brady play faked to Blount, nobody bit on the fake, and Brady was forced to throw the ball away out of the end zone. On fourth and one, the Patriots got only a field goal to give the Patriots their only lead at 20-17. Needing a stop (embellishment) from the decimated Patriot defense was asking too much.

Two Weeks To Define 2013 Patriots Season

The turning point in this game and in future games if the offense doesn't capitalize during crucial moments of the remaining games and into the playoffs. In essence, the offense will have to carry the team.

 

[Ring 6]

Two Weeks To Define 2013 Patriots Season

The turning point in this game and in future games if the offense doesn't capitalize during crucial moments of the remaining games and into the playoffs. In essence, the offense will have to carry the team.

The Bob George card? Really?

 

[Ring 6]

I was not really blaming the offense necessarily I was just examining when if ever 20 points would be enough to win a football game.

Well if the defense would have done better than allowing 3 TDs and a FG out of 6 drives, it would have been.
It takes a lot of points to beat a team you are allowing TDs on half their possessions.

 

[mb6592]

The Bob George card? Really?

WTF do I care who Bob George is (Does he suck? Did he steal $ from you?). The point is the critical need for 7 there in light of Talib going down & Denard being unavailable.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

WTF do I care who Bob George is (Does he suck? Did he steal $ from you?). The point is the critical need for 7 there in light of Talib going down & Denard being unavailable.

Bob isn't the sharpest tool in the box.......

Especially when he wrote about the sox this post season.

 

[mb6592]

Bob isn't the sharpest tool in the box.......

Especially when he wrote about the sox this post season.

Got it, thanks.

 

[mgteich]

I don't know why this is hard to understand.

This defense is not good enough for us to expect a win unless the offense consistently scores more than 20 points.

Well if the defense would have done better than allowing 3 TDs and a FG out of 6 drives, it would have been.
It takes a lot of points to beat a team you are allowing TDs on half their possessions.

 

[JMarr]

I actually thought it was one of McDaniels BEST game plans. We punted ONCE the whole game, and drove down at will. Game was lost by the defense not being able to get off the field.

I agree with you, but the botched 3rd and 1 pass play in the 4th quarter (don't know if Brady checked into it or not) was what really lost the game IMO and ruined what was otherwise some pretty good playcalling by McD.

I'm sure Belichick stresses playing complimentary football, and that was an example of how you don't do it. (not making play calls that give you a much better chance of eventually getting 7 and saving your reeling defense).