Welcome to PatsFans.com

20 Points Is Sometimes Just Not Enough

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Nov 19, 2013.

  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,389
    Likes Received:
    91
    Ratings:
    +211 / 14 / -2

    We have a solid defense, a decent running game and awesome special teams.

    However, that is just not enough. Our offense should be one of the best at this point. Everyone is back except Vollmer (and Cannon is doing fine). This offense should understand that they need to score more, and especially do better in the red zone.

    We should recognize that we played the top defense in the NFL, but we still had lots of scoring opportunities. The offense played very well between the 20's.

    Our defense allowed 24. I would expect that this may be the norm going forward, given the injuries.
  2. letekro

    letekro Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,162
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +8 / 2 / -3

    I agree with the premise, but this was a bit of a weird game. We moved the ball well but Ridley and Mankins probably took 10 points of the board. Bottom line for me is the secondary was the thing keeping the whole defense together and now it has been obliterated by injury. Now that our offense is improving our defense is going to suck.
  3. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,696
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +32 / 0 / -0

    mgteich - I respectfully disagree with you here. The Patriots scored 20 points on a measly seven possessions against one of the top defenses in the league.

    On the other side, the Panthers put up 24 on our defense in what amounted to six real possessions.

    That's good efficiency for the offense and terrible efficiency for the defense. We're back to the 2011-2012 dynamic, and it's very unfortunate. It was nice having a great defense earlier in the year, but with all these guys out, no way is this defense solid. It is treading water, and is back to relying on the offense to win games.

    The offense left points out there, I would agree with that, but overall I was pleased with the offensive performance.

    Just consider that earlier in the season, we saw games with double the amount of possessions (30 possessions in the Jets game, for instance). If this game were 48-40, what would we be saying?
  4. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,436
    Likes Received:
    23
    Ratings:
    +45 / 1 / -0

    #24 Jersey

    We squandered a couple of offensive opportunities IMO (the personal foul on mankins and the fumble by ridley) but defensively they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down. Think the Panthers had 2, 3 and outs. That type of play against a pedestrian offense is not going to be enough come playoff time and unfortunately do to the injuries (dennard/talib not being able to stay on the field) I don't see it changing. Another year looks like its going to come down to the defense needing a stop in the playoffs and the other offense walking down the field.
  5. oldskool138

    oldskool138 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    But I thought 8 was enough....
  6. BadMoFo

    BadMoFo Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Messages:
    5,763
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    I think we played way too slow on offense. The Panthers couldn't stop us, only a few bad plays stopped us.
  7. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,267
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +44 / 5 / -2

    The offense set themselves up by playing right into the Panther's defense and what they like to do. Slowing the game down and grinding it out was exactly what the Panthers front 7 is all about.

    Our offense is all about spreading the ball, playing up tempo, and having Brady make decisions on which matchup is best and keeping defenses off balances.

    We had all of our receivers healthy and the Panthers weakness was their secondary.

    Amendola was open all night when he was in. Dobson was getting separation. Vereen was a match up nightmare.

    Inexplicable game plan by McD. Most infuriating of all was using Gronk strictly as a blocker.
  8. Nunchucks

    Nunchucks Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,022
    Likes Received:
    72
    Ratings:
    +142 / 7 / -7

    You should be blaming the defense for letting Newton scramble for 1st downs on 3rd and longs.
  9. Froob

    Froob Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    4,906
    Likes Received:
    26
    Ratings:
    +62 / 0 / -3

    #32 Jersey

    Offense was great with the exception of like two drives. They didn't have enough time. Panthers murdered the clock. One of the best games Brady has ever played imo.
  10. chasa

    chasa Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,677
    Likes Received:
    44
    Ratings:
    +144 / 3 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    Two plays away from at least 26 points.

    If riddley doesnt fumble we are at 23 on that final drive and kick a FG instead of going for 6.
  11. Easywolf32

    Easywolf32 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Those 2 runs for first downs by Newton and dropped passes by a few of the guys on the last drive killed us...
  12. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,110
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    #24 Jersey

    Close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades . :eek:

    Pats D needs a killer instinct.
  13. Archeryaddict12

    Archeryaddict12 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,776
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    The offense moved at will last night. It was unstoppable from an opponents standpoint. You can't defend everyone we have, it's too good. The issue was key mistakes (fumble and penalties). Also, the oline has to figure it out. They need to do something, because Tom can't get the pocket he needs to spread the ball.

    If we don't play a mobile QB last night, we dominate and win easy. It's one of those things, the D couldn't make a 3rd down stop and The offense shot themselves in the foot. Clear 1 mistake ( no bonehead plays or fumble) and we can win every game with this D. The one thing McD has to learn, the offense has to be up and still trying to score like they are losing. That's the only way to save the D.
  14. Gronk

    Gronk Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I think there were a lot of positives offensively - Brady's completion percentage (along with the PIT game two weeks ago) is rising as the regular players get back into the rotation and the rookies gain more experience, and they move the ball well most of the time. They shot themselves in the foot with penalties and the fumble, and they know it. They've got to get better to win playoff games, but they know that too. At least they're "leaving points on the field", so to speak, rather than just looking completely incapable of scoring them at all (as was the case in multiple games earlier in the season, a couple of which they won).

    Sometimes you play pretty well and you lose anyway - BB talks about this all the time, that execution matters from 0 to 60 min because most games come down to 1 or 2 plays. This time they gave up the Newton run (though I would argue he made the play more than they blew it...he's as big and 2x as fast as everyone trying to tackle him), they blew the 3rd & short play going for the TD, and they were on the short end of the stick on a questionable call on the last play. Anyone of those things changes and they would have stole a win from a pretty good team on the road.

    Or maybe the sky is falling and all is lost...either way :D
  15. BradyToAmendola

    BradyToAmendola Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Messages:
    796
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +4 / 4 / -3

    20 points on 6 possessions is pretty good.

    They had 7 possessions but the last one there wasn't enough time, so it doesn't really count. 20 point is phenomenal actually for just 6 drives. Offense gets an A+ for yesterday. If we get our normal 10-12 possessions then we put up 35+ points.
  16. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    4,044
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0

    20 points was more then a nuff at the start of the season when they had everyone on defense now with all the injuries on defense its just not the same team on that side of the ball,


    as for the offense it was as if they were doing to much 3 TE's with one WR then the next play 3 WR's and one TE then 2 RB's and 2 WR's its nice to mix it up a lil but when you have a team like the panthers that are eating up 7plus min per drive and keeping there pass rushers fresh you just put Brady's three best WR's on the field with Gronk and vereen and go no huddle on them
  17. PatriotReign

    PatriotReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    #24 Jersey

    Once again the defense can't hold the opposing team in a key moment. Just keeping them to a field goal would have given Brady and the O a realistic shot at winning it.

    The injuries suck but unless the D forces a turnover they can't stop the opposition on downs in crunch time. The lack of even JAG level depth at corner and safety is killing us. Anytime Tavon Wilson, Nate Ebner, and Marquice Cole see the field you have to hold your breath.
  18. mb6592

    mb6592 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,003
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    You are 100% right. In too many recent times, the offense has failed to bail out the defense and last night was more of the same. We needed seven and the offense delivered three. I couldn't have been the only one who felt the familiar let down by Brady and co. The defense has been suspect a LONG time, and many times when we've needed the offense to score, to convert a first down, to put up a seven instead of a three - it has failed. The Pat's offense has been light years ahead of the defense forever, and yet it has failed the defense time an time again, when it has mattered - late in these big games. With all the players out on defense and w/ Talib going down, was it too much of a stretch to imagine another loss watching Arrington (or X or Y) looking foolish? I knew, I knew once Brady and co. put up a three, we were in trouble.
  19. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    13,964
    Likes Received:
    158
    Ratings:
    +377 / 3 / -7

    #24 Jersey

    20 points is NEVER going to be enough with the way this current 2013 version of defense plays.

    Of course the injury situation is what hurts them the most, but that's the team we have for the rest of the year.

    If we expect to win, we're going to have to find a way to get back to scoring in the high 20's at the very least. There is not other option. Our defense is not suddenly going to transform back to the one at the beginning of the year.
  20. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    13,964
    Likes Received:
    158
    Ratings:
    +377 / 3 / -7

    #24 Jersey

    That's some very serious cherry picking right there--"The last possession doesn't count because we only had a little over a minute?" LOL

    I tend to agree with your general thoughts that most of the time we'd have scored more points, but this is not the only time that we'll face a team who will limit our possessions either. Good defensive/running teams play the same way, and just about everyone will be attempting to run the ball on us and suck up the clock. Take a look at the NYJ game (#2) when the Jets had the ball for 46 minutes and we had it for 23 (due to the overtime). That's another prime example of how the opposition will continue to suck up clock and have success running the ball if something drastic doesn't change.

    On the other side of the ball, Cam Newton threw 3 TD passes and also added another FG in their 6 possessions, so our defense only forced them to punt a total of two times. It works both ways. On top of that we had a -2 turnover ratio and missed many key tackles, along with 2 very key pathetically stupid 15 yd personal foul penalties by players on both sides of the ball who are supposed to be "leaders." We also failed to stop any of Newton's key 3rd down attempts, as he ran all over us with ease, along with some bad timing on DPI/holding penalties.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>