2 Consecutives years the vaunted Patriots defense lost Championships

[BionicPatriot]

I can see where you give some of them blame to the offense, but still.

If this team makes one sack, one pick, it's over. The last two years we've seen the defense unable to make the big play when it counted most. wanna know why? Because gone are the days of pass rushers. This team needs a good young consistant pass rush. What pisses me off is I wonder what would've been if Colvin never went down. So yes you can blame the OL, but the defense is the bulk of the down fall the last 2 years.

I think the key is adding speed to the LB core. That's why I think Gholston is the best selection, because I think he and Adalius would be one of the best if not the best pass rushing team in the league. Remember who plays in front of them, Ty Warren and Seymour. The SB is over and gone, we can place the blame but I'd rather we just try to do whatever and forget. That game is just something that's unexplainable.

 

[Deus Irae]

I can see where you give some of them blame to the offense, but still.

If this team makes one sack, one pick, it's over. The last two years we've seen the defense unable to make the big play when it counted most. wanna know why? Because gone are the days of pass rushers. This team needs a good young consistant pass rush. What pisses me off is I wonder what would've been if Colvin never went down. So yes you can blame the OL, but the defense is the bulk of the down fall the last 2 years.

I think the key is adding speed to the LB core. That's why I think Gholston is the best selection, because I think he and Adalius would be one of the best if not the best pass rushing team in the league. Remember who plays in front of them, Ty Warren and Seymour. The SB is over and gone, we can place the blame but I'd rather we just try to do whatever and forget. That game is just something that's unexplainable.

If the team makes one sack, it's over? Come on..... As Brady was showing while needlessly throwing bombs at the end of the game, this game wasn't even over after the Giants scored. One could as easily argue that had the Patriots run the ball on 1st and goal rather than tossing incompletions before getting the touchdown, the Giants would have been in a huge time crunch and things would have been different.

The offense let the team down. Accept it and move on.

As for the linebackers and the pass rush, I don't recall either Harrison or Samuel being a linebacker. It wasn't the linebackers failing to make the 'big' play, it was the players in the secondary. It wasn't the defensive front failing to get pressure, it was the DB's failing to take advantage of the 'imperfect' throws by Manning that the pressure generated.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Pats owned the Mannings many times, especially the elder.

Some things are just not worth re-hashing, either. I hate even seeing these thread titles. Let us heal ourselves!

The Rabbi is right again.

 

[mgteich]

Re: 2 Consecutives years the vaunted Patriots defense lost Chasmpionships

The defense played well enough to win the stats battle after the game. Sure the offense SHOULD have have scored more. But they didn't, and the defense for the second year in a row allowed the opposing offense to march the length of the field to win. Should we have confidence in a defense that failed in the clutch yet again and now has replaced Samuel with Bryant and has not replaced Colvin and Seau?

If we had previous SB teams, and we were ahead in the playoffs with the opposing team on their own 20 with a couple of minutes to go, I strongly believe that the defense would have sucked it up and played well enought to win in the clutch.

And yes, to protect against loss and a defense that cannot when protect a lead in the clutch, the offense will need to score even more this year, especially in the playoffs.

thank you, tf. God help us that we arent on the same level with this particular "lifer".

Here's the facts. The NFL's #1 scoring D gave up 16.4/game last year. We gave up 17 in the SB. Not far off. The NFL's #1 scoring O(ours) averaged 36.8. We scored 14. 23 below average. Now, shut up.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: 2 Consecutives years the vaunted Patriots defense lost Chasmpionships

we need pass rushers

Agreed. But (1) Asante Samuel didn't need a strong pass rush in order to catch that pass on the sideline that would have ended the game, but it went right through his hands; and (2) on the hail mary to Tyree, all of the Patriots' pass rushers got great penetration, but were either face-masked or held blatantly. There was a long thread about this and it's well documented.

I agree with your basic point, but on the biggest play of the game, the pass rush definitely got the job done, but you can't blame them when they're literally being pulled away from the QB by the offensive line and no flag.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: 2 Consecutives years the vaunted Patriots defense lost Chasmpionships

The defense played well enough to win the stats battle after the game. Sure the offense SHOULD have have scored more. But they didn't, and the defense for the second year in a row allowed the opposing offense to march the length of the field to win. Should we have confidence in a defense that failed in the clutch yet again and now has replaced Samuel with Bryant and has not replaced Colvin and Seau?

If we had previous SB teams, and we were ahead in the playoffs with the opposing team on their own 20 with a couple of minutes to go, I strongly believe that the defense would have sucked it up and played well enought to win in the clutch.

And yes, to protect against loss and a defense that cannot when protect a lead in the clutch, the offense will need to score even more this year, especially in the playoffs.

The defense didn't hold against the Rams, didn't hold against the Panthers and barely held on against the Eagles, despite playing against a hobbled T.O.. The defense failed to hold in the game last season against the Colts. All this, and this year's Super Bowl is the one people are blaming the defense for. In a game where the loss was clearly on the shoulders of the offense, people pick on the defense.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: 2 Consecutives years the vaunted Patriots defense lost Chasmpionships

The defense played well enough to win the stats battle after the game. Sure the offense SHOULD have have scored more. But they didn't, and the defense for the second year in a row allowed the opposing offense to march the length of the field to win. Should we have confidence in a defense that failed in the clutch yet again and now has replaced Samuel with Bryant and has not replaced Colvin and Seau?

If we had previous SB teams, and we were ahead in the playoffs with the opposing team on their own 20 with a couple of minutes to go, I strongly believe that the defense would have sucked it up and played well enought to win in the clutch.

And yes, to protect against loss and a defense that cannot when protect a lead in the clutch, the offense will need to score even more this year, especially in the playoffs.

You need to rewatch all three volumes of the three games to glory series mg because that is not the way our defense performed by and large in the playoffs or particularly in Superbowls...

This D gave up late tying drives with less than 2 minutes left in each of the first two Superbowls, and tried to in 39 only McUpchuck just wasn't having any of that...

Our offense was also frequently stymied for seemingly endless stretches too, even under Charlie Weis... although they managed to make plays in their final drives which tended to close out games with a last second FG. There was a reason we needed those... and had we kicked a 48 yarder in another dome that's how the last Superbowl would have been shaping up down the stretch - with the Giants tying the game with the patented less than 2 minutes remaining for Tommy Boy and his kicker to pull it out - although apparently they were going to have to get it inside the 20 to have any shot... If the point of getting Moss/Stallworth/Welker and even drafting Maroney in the first was to avoid playing with such tight margins then it was the offense that didn't hold up their end. And it wasn't Brady or his new weapons who spit the bit, it was those damn Metaphors...

 

[richpats]

Whoever says "pass rush" is right on the money. The reason we have surrendered these TD's is that the Pats send extra men at the QB because they can't generate pressure with 4-5 guys. But the Mannings have capitalized on the lack of coverage each time. I don't think extra coverage would have helped either, because the QB's would have picked apart our D given the extra time.

Definitely need some pressure without sacrificing pass coverage. See NY Giants.

 

[Deus Irae]

Whoever says "pass rush" is right on the money. The reason we have surrendered these TD's is that the Pats send extra men at the QB because they can't generate pressure with 4-5 guys. But the Mannings have capitalized on the lack of coverage each time. I don't think extra coverage would have helped either, because the QB's would have picked apart our D given the extra time.

Definitely need some pressure without sacrificing pass coverage. See NY Giants.

Had the Patriots rushed fewer people, Samuel wouldn't have dropped the ball?

 

[richpats]

Had the Patriots rushed fewer people, Samuel wouldn't have dropped the ball?

It wasn't as easy a play as everyone remembers. Either way the D still had opportunities to stop the Giants after that play.

 

[signbabybrady]

It wasn't as easy a play as everyone remembers. Either way the D still had opportunities to stop the Giants after that play.

It wasnt the easiest play but wasnt the hardest....I am sure he looks at it as a play he should have made.

 

[Deus Irae]

It wasn't as easy a play as everyone remembers. Either way the D still had opportunities to stop the Giants after that play.

How does a subsequent play change the fact on the ground? The pass rush provided numerous opportunities for the DBs to make plays. For whatever reason, the DBs failed to make those plays. Blaming the failure of the DBs to convert those opportunities on the lack of a pass rush is just ignorant.

 

[richpats]

How does a subsequent play change the fact on the ground? The pass rush provided numerous opportunities for the DBs to make plays. For whatever reason, the DBs failed to make those plays. Blaming the failure of the DBs on the lack of a pass rush is just ignorant.

I haven't ignored the FACT that we left Hobbs 1-on-1 with Burress because we sent the house at Eli. And the pass rush was entirely ineffective on the play.

 

[State]

Do we have to?

talking about the SB makes me think suicidal thoughts.

Remix 6 is correct, as usual. the ol chucked buckets. they were embarrassed, absolutely embarrassed, by the Giants' DL.

Give Brady some time and he'll get into rhythm and start making long drives, which didn't happen until the game's end when the Giants defense had begun running out of gas.

And Pierre Woods had possession of the fumble before he handed it off to the 190-pound running back as if he were his beetch.

yes, now any time in a big game when the defense has to make the stop NE fans will hold their collective breaths. We've simply lost confidence in the defense closing the deal.

Is it me or is Vrabel losing his mojo?

 

[CrazyDave]

Did'nt we just have a thread like this?

 

[Lifer]

Re: 2 Consecutives years the vaunted Patriots defense lost Chasmpionships

I just love that 45 men are active for each game, yet people who have been watching the game for likely a comparatively short time are able to judge which 15-20 of them are specifically to blame for a loss, based on what of the game they watched on their tiny television sets that show a fraction of the 22 people actively playing it.

excuse me, but when you have the lead 2 years in a row and all your defense has to do ,both times, is to keep the other team from driving 80 yards in 2 minutes, I dont think its a stretch to say they blew it.

I know it messes with some peoples world to admit it, but when you blow 2 Championships because you cant stop an 80 yard drive, you have a defense that just isnt what it was or what it needs to be.

Being a fan doesnt mean you say rah-rah all the time and ignore the problem. Tom Brady and the offense did their job both years, they got their team in position to win both years. 34 point was good enough in Indy, and when Brady passed to Moss to give them a 14-10 lead, that was enough to win, had the defense not proved itself to be soft.

 

[BionicPatriot]

If the team makes one sack, it's over? Come on..... As Brady was showing while needlessly throwing bombs at the end of the game, this game wasn't even over after the Giants scored. One could as easily argue that had the Patriots run the ball on 1st and goal rather than tossing incompletions before getting the touchdown, the Giants would have been in a huge time crunch and things would have been different.

The offense let the team down. Accept it and move on.

As for the linebackers and the pass rush, I don't recall either Harrison or Samuel being a linebacker. It wasn't the linebackers failing to make the 'big' play, it was the players in the secondary. It wasn't the defensive front failing to get pressure, it was the DB's failing to take advantage of the 'imperfect' throws by Manning that the pressure generated.

If Manning goes down, game over. Offense isn't to blame when they scored when they HAD to.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Re: Do we have to?

talking about the SB makes me think suicidal thoughts.

Remix 6 is correct, as usual. the ol chucked buckets. they were embarrassed, absolutely embarrassed, by the Giants' DL.

Give Brady some time and he'll get into rhythm and start making long drives, which didn't happen until the game's end when the Giants defense had begun running out of gas.

And Pierre Woods had possession of the fumble before he handed it off to the 190-pound running back as if he were his beetch.

yes, now any time in a big game when the defense has to make the stop NE fans will hold their collective breaths. We've simply lost confidence in the defense closing the deal.

Is it me or is Vrabel losing his mojo?

**** mojo.

Outside of ADT, there wasn't a terribly fast LB on the field that night. This team won championships and close game CONSTANTLY when the defense had to step up. That was when Phifer was around, McGinest was in his heyday and Bruschi and Ted Johnson were so good in the middle. The difference is this team hasn't had a defense capable of sealing a tight deal over the last few years.

 

[tobias funke]

Re: 2 Consecutives years the vaunted Patriots defense lost Chasmpionships

excuse me, but when you have the lead 2 years in a row and all your defense has to do ,both times, is to keep the other team from driving 80 yards in 2 minutes, I dont think its a stretch to say they blew it.

I know it messes with some peoples world to admit it, but when you blow 2 Championships because you cant stop an 80 yard drive, you have a defense that just isnt what it was or what it needs to be.

Being a fan doesnt mean you say rah-rah all the time and ignore the problem. Tom Brady and the offense did their job both years, they got their team in position to win both years. 34 point was good enough in Indy, and when Brady passed to Moss to give them a 14-10 lead, that was enough to win, had the defense not proved itself to be soft.

Yet thousands of pages have been written about the vaunted Giants defense...


... the one that let up the late 4th-quarter drive and subsequent TD pass to Moss that you yourself referenced.

So which is it?

Which defense sucks? Is it the one that allowed a late-game TD and 17 points or the one that allowed a late-game TD and 14 points?

Your argument reeks of homerism, bud. You'll never be a true fan until you can accept that our Patriots got beaten in the Super Bowl by the better team that day.

Do you hear anyone calling for the Giants to overhaul their entire defense? Give me a ******* break.

 

[Deus Irae]

If Manning goes down, game over. Offense isn't to blame when they scored when they HAD to.

What fantasy world are you living in where Manning going down equaled a Patriots victory? It certainly didn't equate that way in the Super Bowl that took place on this planet. There was only one 4th down play on the Giants' final drive and it was a 1 yard gain on a run.