2 1st Rnd picks for Deion

[Box_O_Rocks]

If you hope to settle for one
you have to begin by demanding two.

Funny, for all the bickering on this forum, you'd think there'd be more folks familiar with basic di'c'kering. :help:

 

[Pats726]

So...If the article is correct.... The Pats FO is saying Branch is worth two number one picks. Yet they won't pay him number one money.

Doesn't make a lick of sense!

He is under contract...that is the price for taking a known quantity, Branch, away from the Patriots. If a team is willing to pay Branch what he wants, then THEY think he is worth a lot...so they need to PAY the Patriots for that. It is that simple. No they won't pay him inflated money..of course..why should they?? If some other team wants to..they can BUT they have to paythe Patriots price.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

So...If the article is correct.... The Pats FO is saying Branch is worth two number one picks. Yet they won't pay him number one money.

Doesn't make a lick of sense!

Branch has asked 'not' to be franchised in 2007, he thus sets his own price. This is horse trader 101, ask for the maximum, then let the buyer work you down to what 'they' think is reasonable - too often it is more than you'd have asked for on a set price offer.

 

[upstater1]

So...If the article is correct.... The Pats FO is saying Branch is worth two number one picks. Yet they won't pay him number one money.

Doesn't make a lick of sense!

They won't pay him number 1 money? Huh? 6.3 a year is, what, second rounder money? Anquan Boldin, another second rounder, is making exactly that.

Q: would you trade Branch for Boldin? I know I would.

 

[Digger44]

They won't pay him number 1 money? Huh? 6.3 a year is, what, second rounder money? Anquan Boldin, another second rounder, is making exactly that.

Q: would you trade Branch for Boldin? I know I would.

in a heartbeat

 

[JoeSixPat]

If the Pats asked Deion to NEGOTIATE his own trade, how can THEY be asking for 2 draft picks?

I think you've missed the point - Deion can negotiate his salary but obviously the Pats have to set some parameters for THEIR compensation - that's the way its always done, and Deion is not the first player allowed to seek a trade

The two #1 draft picks are obviously high but its an "ask for everything, get half" mentality, in which they are making it clear that anything less than one #1 draft pick will not be considered...

Basically I look at this is as the team saying that a #1 pick is the price of admission - after that we're flexible - and I'd expect a lot depends on where one projects that draft pick to be in the first round as well

All of this is academic I think because I still look at this as a chance for Deion to discover that his market value is not what he thinks it is

 

[mgteich]

With this type of negotiation strategy, it is most unlikely that anything gets done. Hence the question. What was the point of this patriot exercise?

The message to Branch is that he's worth 2 #1's or a bit less. Why shouldn't he talk around the league and start feelers for next year's negotiations.

And then people suggest that he'll get franchised next year? The message again being that he is worth two firsts and should get paid at the average of the top 5 receivers. Branch will simply sign on the dotted line. He would have no need to cooperate with trades.

What does Branch need to make this work? A good insurance policy.

Funny, for all the bickering on this forum, you'd think there'd be more folks familiar with basic di'c'kering. :help:

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

With this type of negotiation strategy, it is most unlikely that anything gets done. Hence the question. What was the point of this patriot exercise?

The message to Branch is that he's worth 2 #1's or a bit less. Why shouldn't he talk around the league and start feelers for next year's negotiations.

And then people suggest that he'll get franchised next year? The message again being that he is worth two firsts and should get paid at the average of the top 5 receivers. Branch will simply sign on the dotted line. Uh, Branch's agent does NOT want to sign on the dotted line and accept the franchise $; he wants Pats to promise NOT to franchise The Twig. He would have no need to cooperate with trades.

What does Branch need to make this work? A good insurance policy.

No.
The 'message' is that YOU Branch SAY you're a top rank WR. We will Franchise you next year and the price for a suitor to get a franchised player is stated to be 2 1st round picks, so IF you're really worth what YOU claim to be worth bring us a deal where YOU get your $ and we get something resembling the value. Agent BS position called.

You might remember that the agent had frozen negotiations and had not replied to the pats offer with a counteroffer.

 

[CopenhagenPatsfan]

Has anyone giving any thought to the fact maybe the information that the Pats want 2 1st rnd pick came from Branch's agent and is probably not true.

That way when he can not get a trade for Deion he can say it was the Pats fault, not his.

 

[Digger44]

Has anyone giving any thought to the fact maybe the information that the Pats want 2 1st rnd pick came from Branch's agent and is probably not true.

That way when he can not get a trade for Deion he can say it was the Pats fault, not his.

his agent has not proven to be this smart.

 

[MDPATSFAN]

They won't pay him number 1 money? Huh? 6.3 a year is, what, second rounder money? Anquan Boldin, another second rounder, is making exactly that.

Q: would you trade Branch for Boldin? I know I would.

Yes in a split second... But the message from the FO to the contractor is that he is worth much more than he is. It takes away all leverage they have.

I smell BS

 

[Ring 6]

Taking away the contract impasse, no I wouldnt trade Branch for Boldin.
This is part of the reason I am not that concerned about the WR position.
A guy who plays in an offense that cannot run to save its life so puts up big catch numbers because the ball is being thrown to him all day long is the epitome of overrated.
Boldins numbers are derived from being on a LOSING team that is always behind and throws the ball all day. Someone has to catch all those passes. Branch on that team would have put up better numbers, but be ill-prepared to play in our winning system.

Look at it this way. If you take the same WR and put him in a Coryell offense (by the way, one that has only 2 guys to speak of to throw to) on a perenniel loser, vs putting him on a team that is run heavy and throws 25 times a game rather than 45, the same guy has vastly different numbers. Is he worse because the numbers are less? Of course not. Arguably by being on a winning team, he is a better player, even thought the stats are less.


The real news here isnt the rumor about what the Pats are asking for in return, but the report that the Eagles for one are not willing to offer Branch any more than we already have.
This is about educating Branch on what the market for his services is, and he is in the process of finding out that the Patriots have a retty good gauge of that market and Branch and his agent are in a dream world. That is what will get a deal done.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

With this type of negotiation strategy, it is most unlikely that anything gets done. Hence the question. What was the point of this patriot exercise?

The message to Branch is that he's worth 2 #1's or a bit less. Why shouldn't he talk around the league and start feelers for next year's negotiations.

And then people suggest that he'll get franchised next year? The message again being that he is worth two firsts and should get paid at the average of the top 5 receivers. Branch will simply sign on the dotted line. He would have no need to cooperate with trades.

What does Branch need to make this work? A good insurance policy.

Ah, but we don't know that this is what the Patriots are asking, not unless you believe everything Felgy and Borges discuss on air is fact.

The fact still remains, Branch/Chayut were concerned Deion would be franchised in 2007 and made it public that Deion would play for his million if he was allowed to shop for the big bucks in 2007 - that's setting his own value on his services.

The message being sent is Deion values himself at two first round picks, if the Pats allow him to shop himself this week, why is it unreasonable to tell interested clubs the starting offer is franchise tag equivalent? Deion's self-assessed value.

It isn't as if they want to give up Deion's services, there is no percentage in making it easy for Chayut to market Deion if the Pats aren't going to get good value for the loss of their investment. If Chayut wants to get Deion into a big money contract, he needs to do the leg work necessary, the Pats aren't playing T-ball with him after he opted for hardball.

Linta got two of his players out of New England and into situations where they can win starting jobs and negotiate new contracts - as starters - next off-season. He did it by helping the Patriots get decent value for players extraneous to the team's needs. He helped his clients and didn't leave a stench in Pioli's office. Which example do you think Graham's and Koppen's agents will see as most helpful with negotiations in the off-season?

 

[shmessy]

Yes in a split second... But the message from the FO to the contractor is that he is worth much more than he is. It takes away all leverage they have.

I smell BS

You're completely missing the point that PatsWickedPissah made above.

The message is (if no one gives up the two #1's) then these same teams will not slog through the Franchise cuffs the Pats could (if THEY deem it) slap on him next year.

That message would be loud and clear and depressing to Branch.

If the Branchise thinks he's a Franchise top 5 guy, this is the Pats saying "Look, kiddo, here's a mirror".

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Linta got two of his players out of New England and into situations where they can win starting jobs and negotiate new contracts - as starters - next off-season. He did it by helping the Patriots get decent value for players extraneous to the team's needs. He helped his clients and didn't leave a stench in Pioli's office. Which example do you think Graham's and Koppen's agents will see as most helpful with negotiations in the off-season?

Great point.
It's obvious who a rook should hire as his agent.

 

[Digger44]

Taking away the contract impasse, no I wouldnt trade Branch for Boldin.
This is part of the reason I am not that concerned about the WR position.
A guy who plays in an offense that cannot run to save its life so puts up big catch numbers because the ball is being thrown to him all day long is the epitome of overrated.
Boldins numbers are derived from being on a LOSING team that is always behind and throws the ball all day. Someone has to catch all those passes. Branch on that team would have put up better numbers, but be ill-prepared to play in our winning system.

Look at it this way. If you take the same WR and put him in a Coryell offense (by the way, one that has only 2 guys to speak of to throw to) on a perenniel loser, vs putting him on a team that is run heavy and throws 25 times a game rather than 45, the same guy has vastly different numbers. Is he worse because the numbers are less? Of course not. Arguably by being on a winning team, he is a better player, even thought the stats are less.


The real news here isnt the rumor about what the Pats are asking for in return, but the report that the Eagles for one are not willing to offer Branch any more than we already have.
This is about educating Branch on what the market for his services is, and he is in the process of finding out that the Patriots have a retty good gauge of that market and Branch and his agent are in a dream world. That is what will get a deal done.

Andy, i agree with your reasoning on the purpose of teaching branch a lesson. imo that is exactly what is happening. i disagree that boldin is not a better wr. he is a different type of wr than branch, but i feel he is much better.

 

[miamipat]

I'd be happy w/ a 1st for him and sending a 2nd to Oakland for Porter.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

Taking away the contract impasse, no I wouldnt trade Branch for Boldin.
This is part of the reason I am not that concerned about the WR position.
A guy who plays in an offense that cannot run to save its life so puts up big catch numbers because the ball is being thrown to him all day long is the epitome of overrated.
Boldins numbers are derived from being on a LOSING team that is always behind and throws the ball all day. Someone has to catch all those passes. Branch on that team would have put up better numbers, but be ill-prepared to play in our winning system.

Look at it this way. If you take the same WR and put him in a Coryell offense (by the way, one that has only 2 guys to speak of to throw to) on a perenniel loser, vs putting him on a team that is run heavy and throws 25 times a game rather than 45, the same guy has vastly different numbers. Is he worse because the numbers are less? Of course not. Arguably by being on a winning team, he is a better player, even thought the stats are less.


The real news here isnt the rumor about what the Pats are asking for in return, but the report that the Eagles for one are not willing to offer Branch any more than we already have.
This is about educating Branch on what the market for his services is, and he is in the process of finding out that the Patriots have a retty good gauge of that market and Branch and his agent are in a dream world. That is what will get a deal done.

Would that the Eagles were representative of the "market" out there. The Eagles, along with the Steelers and Pats, form the trio of teams out there that practice the most self-discipline with their cap money -- and it's no accident that they've been the most successful teams recently.

These teams set a max value for a player, and refuse to go over it, regardless of a perceived sense of "need" at that position.

Unfortunately, there are always teams out there that will overpay a player at a position where they're lacking, and the market is pretty dry -- like the Skins paying out for Randal El, or the Titans paying Givens #1 WR money.

I worry that someone will be willing to pay Branch the kind of money he wants, thus putting the focus back on the Pats' trade demands, which, if they are in fact 2 #1s, are more ridiculous than Branch's salary demands.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, i agree with your reasoning on the purpose of teaching branch a lesson. imo that is exactly what is happening. i disagree that boldin is not a better wr. he is a different type of wr than branch, but i feel he is much better.

Why is Boldin better?
Branch has better hands. Branch is both faster and much quicker.
If your only argument is numbers, you have to look deeper, because WR numbers in the Andre Ware run and shoot and the Lou Holtz Tony Rice ND offense would tell nothing. Thats the extreme, but its the same dynamic that Im talking about here.

 

[mgteich]

Wait a minute! Who here wouldn't want Branch to play here for this year for $1M with the promise that we wouldn't franchise him next year? I'd do that in a second! We'd end up with a 2008 3rd as compensation, and an excellent deal this year.